McLaren receives £300m.......

McLaren receives £300m.......

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Ferruccio

1,832 posts

118 months

Saturday 30th May 2020
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LooneyTunes said:
Desert Dragon said:
they need to buy back all their distribution network and control this part of their model religiously - it cost money to do this way but whats the point of having company values and strong brand that non of your franchise dealers support on a consistent basis. some good some bad not good enough at £300k sale level. No way.
Agree, but I don’t think MCL are looking closely at the market or understanding who walks into their showrooms (or more importantly why they walk out again) so I doubt that’ll change.

In fact I find their marketing approach really quite odd. One friend, not in a position to buy, gets regularly contacted by his local dealer for events. Another got invited to something (alongside another event) when McL were targeting a certain group last year but has so little interest in cars that he went for a run instead.. yet the McL arm of a dealer group that I bought two cars from in 2019 couldn’t be bothered to source what I was looking for, and wouldn’t arrange a test drive (they had no demonstrators and didn’t seem at all interested OMG getting one from McL), and has done no follow up at all.

It’s not good enough at any price point. Absolute dealbreaker in my case as I was actively ignoring other friends horror stories about McL ownership (Where friend of a friend’s cousin’s dog had wished they’d never bought one) and hoping that dealer could instil confidence.

Compare and contrast to another newish brand that I’ve *never* any expressed interest in. They dropped by my office a couple of times to see if I could spare five mins to look at a car, maybe go for a drive if I could spare more time. I was busy both times but they did a couple of runs out with my guys out instead (who were then telling me how great the car was and that I really should go and look).
They can’t buy back distribution, they don’t have the money.

What’s described is simply a badly run business.
Whatever business you are in, that’s often the problem.
Seen the same with my own personal experience of Aston Martin sadly.
By way of contrast Lamborghini have been superb. Both the dealer and the factory make me feel valued; nothing is too much trouble.

Lee Jones Jnr

1,724 posts

169 months

Saturday 30th May 2020
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I’ve had a Carrera S Monday to Friday and when I dropped it off on the Friday I took a C4S from Friday to Monday.
I don’t really think that why Porsche do is applicable for comparison to McLaren. I have not had anything other than ‘normal’ test drives in Ferrari or Lamborghini but then I also haven’t been choosing between models so I don’t know if longer tests would have been accommodated.

Edited by Lee Jones Jnr on Saturday 30th May 16:18

12pack

1,533 posts

167 months

Saturday 30th May 2020
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Surely all this test drive business has more to do with the dealers than the brand.

garystoybox

768 posts

116 months

Saturday 30th May 2020
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mcl570 said:
Can only imagine this was a Fleet/Press car rather than a dealer demo.. no way would any dealer offer their demo's out for long test drives, with the risk of people piling the miles on to them. Especially Ferrari, seeing as though they seem to be so sensitive to mileage etc when it comes to resale.
My Ferrari dealership lent me a California T for a week and a 488 for 48 hours without any issue/hassle, although I had by this time already bought 2 cars off them previously. Also had AM Superfast and Bentley Continental on Long weekend loans at dealers suggestion.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 30th May 2020
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Cheib said:
Do they do it after servicing as well ?
Yes.

lauda

3,446 posts

206 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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flemke said:
Yes, that was the Bahrain episode which, I believe, was the start of bad blood between Ron and Mansour.
Things got stickier in the latter part of 2013. Mansour was incapacitated for a lengthy period after having a double lung transplant and deputed his brother to represent the family interest at McLaren. For some time Ron had wanted to demote/replace Martin Whitmarsh, but Mansour had opposed. With Mansour out of action, Ron arranged to displace Martin. At the same time (AIUI), Ron nearly succeeded in persuading the brother to sell the Ojjeh family stake in McLaren to Ron. Mansour learned about this scheme from someone who, shall we say, was or had been close to both Ron and Mansour. Even though he was still gravely unwell, Mansour was able to intercede and the sale was blocked, but from then on it was pistols at dawn.
Wow. I’m surprised that Ron would behave in such an underhand, duplicitous way. I always had him pegged as a pretty straightforward, honest guy.

Clearly there’s the backstory of Bahrain but it sounds like it might be best not to get on the wrong side of Ron!

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

236 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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12pack said:
Surely all this test drive business has more to do with the dealers than the brand.
That's what I would have though.

What I don't understand is that McLaren dealers are all part of a larger Franchise Groups, those larger franchise groups also sell the brands that people on here are saying that they've had great service from whilst getting a poor service from their McLaren branch.

- Parks who are the franchise owner for McLaren Glasgow and Leeds also have Lamborghini, Maserati, and Bentley dealerships
- Sytner who have the often hated McLaren Manchester dealership also have Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, and Porsche as well as sharing their show room with Rolls Royce.
- Rybrook who have the Bristol and Birmingham McLaren dealerships also have Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, and Porsche
- Jardine who have McLaren London also have Ferrari, Aston Martin and Porsche dealerships...etc

Are people getting a long weekend Porsche test drives from Rybrook Porsche but getting the same test drive request blocked from their McLaren Franchise, and if so, why? Again, if you walked into Parks McLaren Glasgow would they resist a test drive because 'McLaren' where if you crossed the forecourt would you be welcomed with open arms and ushered on a weekend long test drive in a Conti GT by Parks Bentley scratchchin

Ferruccio

1,832 posts

118 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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lauda said:
Wow. I’m surprised that Ron would behave in such an underhand, duplicitous way. I always had him pegged as a pretty straightforward, honest guy.

Clearly there’s the backstory of Bahrain but it sounds like it might be best not to get on the wrong side of Ron!
Define pretty straightforward, honest guy?

On 13 September 2007, the FIA imposed a penalty for illicitly collecting and holding information from Ferrari to confer a dishonest and fraudulent sporting advantage upon McLaren. The penalty consisted of exclusion from and withdrawal of all points awarded to McLaren in all rounds of the 2007 Constructors' Championship, a record fine of $100 million and the obligation for the team to submit its 2008 chassis for scrutiny.

Rocketreid

626 posts

71 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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The Surveyor said:
That's what I would have though.

What I don't understand is that McLaren dealers are all part of a larger Franchise Groups, those larger franchise groups also sell the brands that people on here are saying that they've had great service from whilst getting a poor service from their McLaren branch.

- Parks who are the franchise owner for McLaren Glasgow and Leeds also have Lamborghini, Maserati, and Bentley dealerships
- Sytner who have the often hated McLaren Manchester dealership also have Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, and Porsche as well as sharing their show room with Rolls Royce.
- Rybrook who have the Bristol and Birmingham McLaren dealerships also have Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, and Porsche
- Jardine who have McLaren London also have Ferrari, Aston Martin and Porsche dealerships...etc

Are people getting a long weekend Porsche test drives from Rybrook Porsche but getting the same test drive request blocked from their McLaren Franchise, and if so, why? Again, if you walked into Parks McLaren Glasgow would they resist a test drive because 'McLaren' where if you crossed the forecourt would you be welcomed with open arms and ushered on a weekend long test drive in a Conti GT by Parks Bentley scratchchin
In reality they act the same whichever Brand they are selling !

In many cases the sales guys might be different but the service team is the same with some specialising in one marque or another

As always it’s a person’s impression or mischief makers.

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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Ferruccio said:
lauda said:
Wow. I’m surprised that Ron would behave in such an underhand, duplicitous way. I always had him pegged as a pretty straightforward, honest guy.

Clearly there’s the backstory of Bahrain but it sounds like it might be best not to get on the wrong side of Ron!
Define pretty straightforward, honest guy?

On 13 September 2007, the FIA imposed a penalty for illicitly collecting and holding information from Ferrari to confer a dishonest and fraudulent sporting advantage upon McLaren. The penalty consisted of exclusion from and withdrawal of all points awarded to McLaren in all rounds of the 2007 Constructors' Championship, a record fine of $100 million and the obligation for the team to submit its 2008 chassis for scrutiny.
We know this, but you forgot to mention the lowlife who stitched up McLaren out of a whole lot of nothing: Max Rufus Mosley.

jtremlett

1,369 posts

221 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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flemke said:
Ferruccio said:
lauda said:
Wow. I’m surprised that Ron would behave in such an underhand, duplicitous way. I always had him pegged as a pretty straightforward, honest guy.

Clearly there’s the backstory of Bahrain but it sounds like it might be best not to get on the wrong side of Ron!
Define pretty straightforward, honest guy?

On 13 September 2007, the FIA imposed a penalty for illicitly collecting and holding information from Ferrari to confer a dishonest and fraudulent sporting advantage upon McLaren. The penalty consisted of exclusion from and withdrawal of all points awarded to McLaren in all rounds of the 2007 Constructors' Championship, a record fine of $100 million and the obligation for the team to submit its 2008 chassis for scrutiny.
We know this, but you forgot to mention the lowlife who stitched up McLaren out of a whole lot of nothing: Max Rufus Mosley.
To be fair to Ron Dennis, as far as is known, he was not involved in that at all and only found out about it later.

That said, like most people he has done good and bad things over the years. He is no longer running McLaren because he tried to stiff his long term business partners. So his downfall was entirely of his own making.

MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Monday 1st June 2020
quotequote all
jtremlett said:
flemke said:
Ferruccio said:
lauda said:
Wow. I’m surprised that Ron would behave in such an underhand, duplicitous way. I always had him pegged as a pretty straightforward, honest guy.

Clearly there’s the backstory of Bahrain but it sounds like it might be best not to get on the wrong side of Ron!
Define pretty straightforward, honest guy?

On 13 September 2007, the FIA imposed a penalty for illicitly collecting and holding information from Ferrari to confer a dishonest and fraudulent sporting advantage upon McLaren. The penalty consisted of exclusion from and withdrawal of all points awarded to McLaren in all rounds of the 2007 Constructors' Championship, a record fine of $100 million and the obligation for the team to submit its 2008 chassis for scrutiny.
We know this, but you forgot to mention the lowlife who stitched up McLaren out of a whole lot of nothing: Max Rufus Mosley.
To be fair to Ron Dennis, as far as is known, he was not involved in that at all and only found out about it later.

That said, like most people he has done good and bad things over the years. He is no longer running McLaren because he tried to stiff his long term business partners. So his downfall was entirely of his own making.
Didn’t he get more than 200m as a payout for his stake, which would be pretty much worthless now? Not sure I would call that his downfall, more like a lucky escape

Desert Dragon

1,445 posts

83 months

Monday 1st June 2020
quotequote all
MDL111 said:
jtremlett said:
flemke said:
Ferruccio said:
lauda said:
Wow. I’m surprised that Ron would behave in such an underhand, duplicitous way. I always had him pegged as a pretty straightforward, honest guy.

Clearly there’s the backstory of Bahrain but it sounds like it might be best not to get on the wrong side of Ron!
Define pretty straightforward, honest guy?

On 13 September 2007, the FIA imposed a penalty for illicitly collecting and holding information from Ferrari to confer a dishonest and fraudulent sporting advantage upon McLaren. The penalty consisted of exclusion from and withdrawal of all points awarded to McLaren in all rounds of the 2007 Constructors' Championship, a record fine of $100 million and the obligation for the team to submit its 2008 chassis for scrutiny.
We know this, but you forgot to mention the lowlife who stitched up McLaren out of a whole lot of nothing: Max Rufus Mosley.
To be fair to Ron Dennis, as far as is known, he was not involved in that at all and only found out about it later.

That said, like most people he has done good and bad things over the years. He is no longer running McLaren because he tried to stiff his long term business partners. So his downfall was entirely of his own making.
Didn’t he get more than 200m as a payout for his stake, which would be pretty much worthless now? Not sure I would call that his downfall, more like a lucky escape
He did maybe a bit more from memory. Not many with that legacy and history with Senna, Hamilton etc to name a few. As dull as I find (perhaps harsh) him he's a living legend and you can't do anything but admire him.

lauda

3,446 posts

206 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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Desert Dragon said:
He did maybe a bit more from memory. Not many with that legacy and history with Senna, Hamilton etc to name a few. As dull as I find (perhaps harsh) him he's a living legend and you can't do anything but admire him.
I don’t know how accurate such lists are but The Sunday Times Rich List that was published the other week had Dennis at something like £500m. However much it was, it was more than Hamilton.

FWIW

3,042 posts

96 months

Sunday 15th November 2020
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650spider said:
Wren kitchens up until 18mths ago would haggle, discount and beat any price from any competitor +5%.

They had a large market share but hit or miss quality, however, lots of unhappy clients as they always felt someone got a better deal due to perhaps better negotiation abilities.

Then the billionaire owner changed the policy.

Now, best price is the price you get; no discount, no price match; just the best price they can supply it for; if your not happy go elsewhere.

Since then, happier clients, more kitchens out of the door, better quality and more profit.
Bullst!

They may no longer haggle, but the st quality, dire customer service, and unhappy customers remain.

Granted, as a result of their superb marketing budget and aggressive ‘reputation management’ they sell a lot of kitchens.

650spider

1,476 posts

170 months

Sunday 15th November 2020
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FWIW said:
Bullst!

They may no longer haggle, but the st quality, dire customer service, and unhappy customers remain.

Granted, as a result of their superb marketing budget and aggressive ‘reputation management’ they sell a lot of kitchens.
Wow! A bit of an unecessary aggressive response.

May I ask how many of them you are involved in the supply and fitting of a year?

For me its not many; around about a dozen a year, average price around £12-15k and I have very few issues with quality, crap service and very few if any complaints from my clients about the kitchens before during or after fitting.

Very different from when i fit Howdens or Magnet if my clients choose that route.



Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

59 months

Sunday 15th November 2020
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650spider said:
Wow! A bit of an unecessary aggressive response.

May I ask how many of them you are involved in the supply and fitting of a year?

For me its not many; around about a dozen a year, average price around £12-15k and I have very few issues with quality, crap service and very few if any complaints from my clients about the kitchens before during or after fitting.

Very different from when i fit Howdens or Magnet if my clients choose that route.
OK, thread hijack here, but I have to ask...

Friends and family spend very little on kitchens, a handful of thousand pounds at most, and seem to have perfectly nice ones as a result.

Since I’ve moved into “nice” places in the London commuter belt, price seems to have become random, but high.

For a total of 5m of bench and units and a 2m island in my flat (one corner of an open-plan lounge), I was quoted £80,000 last year. Plus appliances. Plus flooring. And I had to coordinate the various bits myself, meaning that if the flooring and the wiring didn’t work as desired, that was on me.

It was so far beyond what I was willing to spend that I can’t work out what was going on. I didn’t get it done.

Anyway, to the question, is there a well-known brand from which all the units can be be bought, that will last for years, but is at a “normal” price?

650spider

1,476 posts

170 months

Sunday 15th November 2020
quotequote all
Kent Border Kenny said:
OK, thread hijack here, but I have to ask...

Friends and family spend very little on kitchens, a handful of thousand pounds at most, and seem to have perfectly nice ones as a result.

Since I’ve moved into “nice” places in the London commuter belt, price seems to have become random, but high.

For a total of 5m of bench and units and a 2m island in my flat (one corner of an open-plan lounge), I was quoted £80,000 last year. Plus appliances. Plus flooring. And I had to coordinate the various bits myself, meaning that if the flooring and the wiring didn’t work as desired, that was on me.

It was so far beyond what I was willing to spend that I can’t work out what was going on. I didn’t get it done.

Anyway, to the question, is there a well-known brand from which all the units can be be bought, that will last for years, but is at a “normal” price?
Yeah...it has went a bit off topic from McLaren!

I can only post my experiences.

In the £10-20k price range, I have found that the Wren kitchens are better quality than as i mentioned Howdens and Magnet, and i try my best to avoid getting involved any of the diy 'big names' kitchens.

Like every kitchen supplier though, they have layers of quality so the lower in the range, the quality noticeably drops off, and Wren are no different there.

Wrens in my experience did used to be like as FWIW mentioned, but i only put clients to the same kitchen designer now as he is actually cares about getting it right for the client; if anything is incorrect or damaged it generally is sent via 24hr courier unless a bespoke part.

When there is a bad experience, it us usually down to the originally surveyor getting it wrong, poor kitchen designer or poor fitting team; not in every case, but most.

Like in everything, if you have a raj down the phone to some poor customer services operator like the above response, it shall most likely exasperate issues and turn it into a real fubar experience.

For the budget you mention, I would be guessing something more bespoke, but if a kitchen is £80k, I would be thinking someone in the chain is having a £40+k freebie; kitchens are like upvc windows; the markup is mind boggling.

FWIW

3,042 posts

96 months

Tuesday 24th November 2020
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650spider said:
Wow! A bit of an unecessary aggressive response.

May I ask how many of them you are involved in the supply and fitting of a year?

For me its not many; around about a dozen a year, average price around £12-15k and I have very few issues with quality, crap service and very few if any complaints from my clients about the kitchens before during or after fitting.

Very different from when i fit Howdens or Magnet if my clients choose that route.
Which Report October 2020. Survey of over 2200 people:







tyrrell

1,670 posts

207 months

Wednesday 25th November 2020
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Holy thread de rail, could only happen on PH.