McLaren receives £300m.......

[cgt2]

There is historical precedent on the F1 side, and this happened well before the explosion of cash in F1 in the 80's. When Bruce McLaren died RD was a mechanic and it was through the efforts of Tyler Alexander, Creighton Brown and Ron Dennis that the team became the powerhouse it did. Conversely who would have thought in the early 70's that Tyrell would disappear eventually, similar to the predicament Williams are in now having dominated the 90s.

Ebb and flow has always been part of the game. Indeed why did Enzo sell to Fiat? Much of this against a backdrop of economic crises etc (though with the caveat none of us knows how this present situation plays out long term)

And let's not forget that F1 factory in Brackley that lost hundreds of millions of pounds throughout the BAR and Honda incarnations for a whole decade. Those guys seem to be doing well now.

Edited by cgt2 on Saturday 23 May 13:09

[Slippydiff]

leef44 said:

Many great business leaders find a new lease of life in their 70's. With their experience they are able to achieve their dreams by turning a company round.

I personally would not like to work for a perfectionist like him but I admire this quality of his. The cleanliness in his factory and not having anything touching the factory floor (easier to see if something has been dropped) so everything is suspended.

It is his strive for perfection which has driven the high discipline culture in McLaren's formula one success.

He's about as shrewd as they come, though he's clearly incredibly intense. All in all a very interesting character, though he has some interesting character traits that haven't exactly endeared him to those who've worked with/for him. Adrian Newey paints a less than gushing picture of him in his book.

But the interview in the video I've linked to below gives an excellent insight into the man (I found myself alternating between deep admiration for what he's done with his life and his consummate business/deal making skills, but then thinking what an obnoxious individual he is)

One senses a huge amount of bitterness on his part at the way he was ousted from McLaren (no real surprise there) this despite him saying he thought he'd had a good deal. Maybe this will turn out to be a case of he who laughs last, laughs longest ??

When the video ended, I felt rather sorry for him, but I really couldn't decide whether I liked him or loathed him :

https://youtu.be/Dh2iQSU9DJE

At least he has the self-awareness to appreciate he can be hard work and irritating to others.

[Desert Dragon]

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

[MclaesLaren]

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

After seeing this video.

https://youtu.be/Dh2iQSU9DJE

Ron Dennis might be the only way out for McLaren. If he likes to restart after the age of 70 and invest in the Automotive business. F1 I guess is a too big challenge. He has the money and knowledge. Hope he has the spirit as well.
He understand that running a car factory is not like the stock market. Result is achieved over many years. Look at Porsche.

Edited by MclaesLaren on Sunday 24th May 14:04

Edited by MclaesLaren on Sunday 24th May 14:05

Edited by MclaesLaren on Sunday 24th May 14:35

[Lee Jones Jnr]

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

[Oaky]

I’m sure we can accept genuinely uninformed guesses. You could count genuinely informed comments on the fingers of one foot.

[Cheib]

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

My guess is it will require UK Govt intervention for them to survive. According to Sunday Times JLR are burning £1bil cash a month at the moment which is an eye watering amount

[Matty3]

Guess is just it - I am sure more savvy folk are working behind the scenes to ensure that McL continue - my 'guess' is that they will.

[Ferruccio]

Cheib said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

My guess is it will require UK Govt intervention for them to survive. According to Sunday Times JLR are burning £1bil cash a month at the moment which is an eye watering amount

FT reported a while ago that HMG had said no.
Assuming a significant debt/equity swap, is there a viable business case?

[Slippydiff]

MclaesLaren said:

After seeing this video.

https://youtu.be/Dh2iQSU9DJE

Ron Dennis might be the only way out for McLaren. If he likes to restart after the age of 70 and invest in the Automotive business. F1 I guess is a too big challenge. He has the money and knowledge. Hope he has the spirit as well.
He understand that running a car factory is not like the stock market. Result is achieved over many years. Look at Porsche

Ithankyou, that’s the same video I linked to a couple of posts previously

[andrew]

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

in my professional opinion
they're fucked

[r o n n i e]

Ferruccio said:

Cheib said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

My guess is it will require UK Govt intervention for them to survive. According to Sunday Times JLR are burning £1bil cash a month at the moment which is an eye watering amount

FT reported a while ago that HMG had said no.
Assuming a significant debt/equity swap, is there a viable business case?

These are global privately owned companies and that fact will prevent a single government bailing them out.

Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors so British tax payers will rightly ask questions as to why UK should bail out on behalf of a highly profitable Indian conglomerate.

Likewise, the fact that Mclaren is majority owned by Bahrain Mumtalakat company will inhibit UK Gov from acting.

This greatly increase probability of these companies failing.

[Ferruccio]

r o n n i e said:

Ferruccio said:

Cheib said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

My guess is it will require UK Govt intervention for them to survive. According to Sunday Times JLR are burning £1bil cash a month at the moment which is an eye watering amount

FT reported a while ago that HMG had said no.
Assuming a significant debt/equity swap, is there a viable business case?

These are global privately owned companies and that fact will prevent a single government bailing them out.

Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors so British tax payers will rightly ask questions as to why UK should bail out on behalf of a highly profitable Indian conglomerate.

Likewise, the fact that Mclaren is majority owned by Bahrain Mumtalakat company will inhibit UK Gov from acting.

This greatly increase probability of these companies failing.

It’s effectively a question of whether HMG is prepared to nationalise or part nationalise a particular business.
As they did, for example, with RBS.
Clearly a number of factors play into such a decision.
Can’t see McLaren playing well in the Guardian.

[Matty3]

andrew said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

in my professional opinion
they're fucked

What is your profession? - if a taxidermist it carries little weight unless you reckon they are stuffed?

Edited by Matty3 on Sunday 24th May 20:54

[andrew]

Matty3 said:

andrew said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

in my professional opinion
they're fucked

What is your profession? - if a taxidermist it carries little weight

by day or by night ?

[IMI A]

andrew said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

in my professional opinion
they're fucked

A few too many reds this afternoon Andrew?

[andrew]

IMI A said:

andrew said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

in my professional opinion
they're fucked

A few too many reds this afternoon Andrew?

impossible !!!

[Cheib]

Ferruccio said:

r o n n i e said:

Ferruccio said:

Cheib said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

My guess is it will require UK Govt intervention for them to survive. According to Sunday Times JLR are burning £1bil cash a month at the moment which is an eye watering amount

FT reported a while ago that HMG had said no.
Assuming a significant debt/equity swap, is there a viable business case?

These are global privately owned companies and that fact will prevent a single government bailing them out.

Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors so British tax payers will rightly ask questions as to why UK should bail out on behalf of a highly profitable Indian conglomerate.

Likewise, the fact that Mclaren is majority owned by Bahrain Mumtalakat company will inhibit UK Gov from acting.

This greatly increase probability of these companies failing.

It’s effectively a question of whether HMG is prepared to nationalise or part nationalise a particular business.
As they did, for example, with RBS.
Clearly a number of factors play into such a decision.
Can’t see McLaren playing well in the Guardian.

It’s a job story more than a story about foreign ownership ultimately...it’s about UK jobs. And Tata obviously also has the Tata Steel business which I think will get support in some form.

They absolutely need to make sure they take a healthy equity stake for the trouble though..

Two months ago we were lauding the F1 Teams helping with the ventilator manufacturing and how their engineering expertise was a massive asset to Britiain...nobody mentioned foreign ownership then.

[r o n n i e]

Cheib said:

Ferruccio said:

r o n n i e said:

Ferruccio said:

Cheib said:

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Desert Dragon said:

Does anyone think that Mcl can trade their way out of this situation?

Whatever anyone says will just be a guess, there is t enough information available to make a genuinely informed comment.
I hope they can and I think the marque will survive one way or another.

My guess is it will require UK Govt intervention for them to survive. According to Sunday Times JLR are burning £1bil cash a month at the moment which is an eye watering amount

FT reported a while ago that HMG had said no.
Assuming a significant debt/equity swap, is there a viable business case?

These are global privately owned companies and that fact will prevent a single government bailing them out.

Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors so British tax payers will rightly ask questions as to why UK should bail out on behalf of a highly profitable Indian conglomerate.

Likewise, the fact that Mclaren is majority owned by Bahrain Mumtalakat company will inhibit UK Gov from acting.

This greatly increase probability of these companies failing.

It’s effectively a question of whether HMG is prepared to nationalise or part nationalise a particular business.
As they did, for example, with RBS.
Clearly a number of factors play into such a decision.
Can’t see McLaren playing well in the Guardian.

It’s a job story more than a story about foreign ownership ultimately...it’s about UK jobs. And Tata obviously also has the Tata Steel business which I think will get support in some form.

They absolutely need to make sure they take a healthy equity stake for the trouble though..

Two months ago we were lauding the F1 Teams helping with the ventilator manufacturing and how their engineering expertise was a massive asset to Britiain...nobody mentioned foreign ownership then.

Yep, public definitely have a different view when your PR department is smashing out articles about helping with designing ventilators versus cap in hand seeking a £100M+ bail out.

Helping Mclaren out will not get the same public sympathies as helping out steel workers.

[SRT Hellcat]

Many thanks for posting a link to that video. An excellent watch.
Personally I do not see Ron going back into the car business.
As he clearly stated. He does not want to die at his desk.