Am I mad to look at a Mclaren instead of a Porsche 911?
Discussion
Far Cough said:
Good thread and quite enlightening. I am looking for a GT3 and keeping an eye on the market at the moment. I did not even consider a Maclaren as I presumed they would be over budget. Looking at 540' & 570's now. Are they really an alternative to a GT3 that does road trips and trackdays ??
Well, big debate on this imho, as a 570S doesn’t capture the essence of motorsport you can find on a GT3, although it’s possibly quicker on high speed tracks. 570S is too refined to be compared to a GT3 imho. Overall for look still a league above but you may be put down by lack of rawness and sound on a 570S.RBT0 said:
Well, big debate on this imho, as a 570S doesn’t capture the essence of motorsport you can find on a GT3, although it’s possibly quicker on high speed tracks. 570S is too refined to be compared to a GT3 imho. Overall for look still a league above but you may be put down by lack of rawness and sound on a 570S.
Interesting ........ Sounds like the Maclaren is more of an "occasion" car. I get that. Obviously the GT3 is a tried and trusted car that happily deals with trackwork as well as everyday drives which is probably why I have not set my sights on the Mac`s. Perhaps the best way is to get a test drive and go from there. Although , that might be the worse thing !!!Yes, this is what I did, test drive will give you the answer.
Got my brain switched to McLarens even before driving it though, it was enough to stand next to it and then sit inside. Seating position even better than Porsche which is already top notch.
But yes drive it and then you can decide.
Obviously an LT would fix all the above and obliterates any GT3. The end result is far greater than the sum of all "simple" changes made vs 570S.
Retail price, depreciation and any unsorted quality issue aside, don't think Porsche can compete with McLaren.
Got my brain switched to McLarens even before driving it though, it was enough to stand next to it and then sit inside. Seating position even better than Porsche which is already top notch.
But yes drive it and then you can decide.
Obviously an LT would fix all the above and obliterates any GT3. The end result is far greater than the sum of all "simple" changes made vs 570S.
Retail price, depreciation and any unsorted quality issue aside, don't think Porsche can compete with McLaren.
Edited by RBT0 on Wednesday 27th May 20:26
Edited by RBT0 on Wednesday 27th May 20:30
Far Cough said:
Interesting ........ Sounds like the Maclaren is more of an "occasion" car. I get that. Obviously the GT3 is a tried and trusted car that happily deals with trackwork as well as everyday drives which is probably why I have not set my sights on the Mac`s. Perhaps the best way is to get a test drive and go from there. Although , that might be the worse thing !!!
In my ownership, i see it as the other way around.I find that i want to use the McLaren for every possible journey no matter how long or short due to how easy and comfortable it is to drive.
My previous Ferrari had the fiorano handling pack and crashed over every drain, surface change and god forbid a pothole...it ended up only being used about once every few weeks only if i was in the right mood.
Using it almost every day has not diluted how i feel about the car...it still feels like a total event every journey.
Adam B said:
Bispal said:
I pounced on a car I saw last year for sale and offered full asking price as I thought it was a fair price i was happy with. I didn't even negotiate (not like me) as the spec was a once in a lifetime. I the first 2 weeks of ownership I was contacted 3 times by people who wanted it when it was available, but hesitated, all offering me more than I paid.
Same again for a car I bought in Jan this year. I waited 2 years for the right spec to come up then pounced. I negotiated a bit but once I had the car I had 2 offers for it in a week from people who had procrastinated.
out of curiosity what were these 2 cars?Same again for a car I bought in Jan this year. I waited 2 years for the right spec to come up then pounced. I negotiated a bit but once I had the car I had 2 offers for it in a week from people who had procrastinated.
Bispal said:
Hi Adam, The 1st was an Exige 430CUP a one off type 49 that Lotus made to celebrate their 70th birthday and was run up the hill at 2018 FoS. The 2nd a 675LT with club sport professional pack. So both quite unique.
both sound fantasticwhat does the club sport professional pack have? track tele / fire extinguisher / harness type stuff?
650spider said:
Far Cough said:
Interesting ........ Sounds like the Maclaren is more of an "occasion" car. I get that. Obviously the GT3 is a tried and trusted car that happily deals with trackwork as well as everyday drives which is probably why I have not set my sights on the Mac`s. Perhaps the best way is to get a test drive and go from there. Although , that might be the worse thing !!!
In my ownership, i see it as the other way around.I find that i want to use the McLaren for every possible journey no matter how long or short due to how easy and comfortable it is to drive.
My previous Ferrari had the fiorano handling pack and crashed over every drain, surface change and god forbid a pothole...it ended up only being used about once every few weeks only if i was in the right mood.
Using it almost every day has not diluted how i feel about the car...it still feels like a total event every journey.
(Ignoring luggage space), my 650 is the best daily I've ever had. It's very comfortable, very easy to drive, very easy to pootle along in auto mode if you feel like it, and if you want to hit light speed - that's pretty easy too.
It is most definitely a better daily than my Aston Vantage / 911 turbo etc. were.
Adam B said:
Bispal said:
Hi Adam, The 1st was an Exige 430CUP a one off type 49 that Lotus made to celebrate their 70th birthday and was run up the hill at 2018 FoS. The 2nd a 675LT with club sport professional pack. So both quite unique.
both sound fantasticwhat does the club sport professional pack have? track tele / fire extinguisher / harness type stuff?
From McLaren website below:-
https://cars.mclaren.com/gb-en/legacy/675lt/perfor...
A selection of highly desirable options are available to enhance both the uncompromising driving experience of the 675LT and its unique visual appeal. Key among them are the Club Sport Pack and the Club Sport Professional Pack. The Club Sport Pack is available in non-Federal markets, and includes a titanium roll hoop, four-point racing harnesses and a fire extinguisher, making it ideal for track-day enthusiasts.
Produced in conjunction with our renowned Chief Test Driver, Chris Goodwin, the Club Sport Professional Pack combines Club Sport specification with Chris’s own ideal equipment list. This includes the use of carbon fibre for the front wing end plates, side air intakes, centre of the rear bumper, wheel arches and wing mirrors. Exclusive to the Club Sport Professional Pack, the ‘Longtail’ Airbrake is also finished in visual carbon fibre to emphasise the lightweight material at the heart of the 675LT.
A bespoke paint palette is offered for the 675LT Club Sport Professional Pack with a choice of four exterior colours: Titanium Silver, Storm Grey, Chicane Grey and Onyx Black. All are matched with Stealth-finished Ultra Lightweight 10-spoke alloy wheels, along with McLaren Orange brake calipers, echoing the colour of Chris’s crash helmet. The McLaren Orange detailing continues throughout the Alcantara-upholstered interior with orange embossed leather and contrasting stitching on the fixed-back carbon-shelled racing seats.
The McLaren 675LT is available as standard with the McLaren Track Telemetry (MTT) App, allowing drivers to analyse on-track performance. To capture the thrill of driving on a track, three cameras are optionally available, subtly fitted in both bumpers and the cabin headlining. Footage can be downloaded later for analysis
Romans International also have a great spec review / buyers guide on the 675LT
https://www.romansinternational.com/latest-news/mc...
Its a prime example of if you see the spec you want get it as there is a slim chance there will be another with only approx 50 coupes and 50 spiders in the UK
Hi Bispal ,
Please could you tell us , either within this thread or on a new thread , how your Lotus compares with your McLaren .
Even more interesting and useful , would be for you to tell us how the two brands compare ( if you investigated and tested other model variants within each brand before you committed to the particular models that you actually bought )
Thank you
Please could you tell us , either within this thread or on a new thread , how your Lotus compares with your McLaren .
Even more interesting and useful , would be for you to tell us how the two brands compare ( if you investigated and tested other model variants within each brand before you committed to the particular models that you actually bought )
Thank you
I can maybe chirp in with a reply. I've also went from Lotus to McLaren.
S2 Exige NA - brilliant as a toy car to have a blast out on a back road, and felt properly special for the money. Genuine mini supercar and really was great fun if you were in the mood for it. A real event. Awkward to get in and out, a bit gutless unless you ragged the nuts off it. Sounded OK, but I quickly got fed up with it. No use for doing any sort of motorway or normal driving.
Lotus Evora NA - Probably the best all round car I've owned. Absolutely loved it. It did everything so well. Cruising, road trips, luggage carrying, weekends away. I had a fair few issues with it but it didn't really taint the experience. Steering feel was the best I've ever tried. Sounded great with the V6. Very nearly traded for an Evora S, but Lotus offered me a terrible deal which hacked me off. A bit softer than the Exige but I prefered it. Ride quality was as good as the magazines say. Superb seats.
McLaren 540C - it's actually like a Lotus turned up to 11. Bugger, comfier (I'd say between the Exige and Evora) , easier to get into. Outrageously fast. Handles just as well. Probably the best looking car on the road IMO. I actually think the Evora sounds better, but the 540C goes like nothing else. So easy to drive very quickly. It's definitely up there with the Evora as the best all rounder I've owned. Would love to upgrade to a 720S but can't face another hammering on depreciation
S2 Exige NA - brilliant as a toy car to have a blast out on a back road, and felt properly special for the money. Genuine mini supercar and really was great fun if you were in the mood for it. A real event. Awkward to get in and out, a bit gutless unless you ragged the nuts off it. Sounded OK, but I quickly got fed up with it. No use for doing any sort of motorway or normal driving.
Lotus Evora NA - Probably the best all round car I've owned. Absolutely loved it. It did everything so well. Cruising, road trips, luggage carrying, weekends away. I had a fair few issues with it but it didn't really taint the experience. Steering feel was the best I've ever tried. Sounded great with the V6. Very nearly traded for an Evora S, but Lotus offered me a terrible deal which hacked me off. A bit softer than the Exige but I prefered it. Ride quality was as good as the magazines say. Superb seats.
McLaren 540C - it's actually like a Lotus turned up to 11. Bugger, comfier (I'd say between the Exige and Evora) , easier to get into. Outrageously fast. Handles just as well. Probably the best looking car on the road IMO. I actually think the Evora sounds better, but the 540C goes like nothing else. So easy to drive very quickly. It's definitely up there with the Evora as the best all rounder I've owned. Would love to upgrade to a 720S but can't face another hammering on depreciation
carspath said:
Hi Bispal ,
Please could you tell us , either within this thread or on a new thread , how your Lotus compares with your McLaren .
Even more interesting and useful , would be for you to tell us how the two brands compare ( if you investigated and tested other model variants within each brand before you committed to the particular models that you actually bought )
Thank you
Hi,Please could you tell us , either within this thread or on a new thread , how your Lotus compares with your McLaren .
Even more interesting and useful , would be for you to tell us how the two brands compare ( if you investigated and tested other model variants within each brand before you committed to the particular models that you actually bought )
Thank you
You know I am pretty sure we have met at Beaulieu Supercar Weekend 2019. We sat in the tent with John Thorne discussing McLaren and then our shared passion of MX5's :-) I'm sure you mentioned you were carspath but perhaps I'm mistaken?
The only car I have ever bought and specified new was an S1 Elise in 1998. It started my love of Lotus, the engineering, design & philosophy. There is a real story to the development of the S1 Elise and a superb 2.5 hour documentary you can watch on youtube. "Lotus Elise the Inside Story"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-TiFKr2yb0
I have owned 30 cars since that new Elise in 1998, they are all listed in my garage, but nothing came close to the way it drove and the engineering philosophy until McLaren announced the MP412C.
I may be mistaken or misheard information but I believe 8 of the 10 engineers responsible for the Elise & Exige development went to work at McLaren to develop the MP412C. There are lots of similarities in the conception, the carbon tub very similar in philosophy to the aluminium tub of the Elise. I have heard lots of stories about similarities in design and given Lotus & McLaren are both British F1 constructors and British sports car manufacturers there is similar blood pumping through their veins. The MP4-12C even looks a little like the Esprit concept car from 2010 too.
So I personally think Lotus & McLaren are very similar in philosophy just operating at different price points, they offer a similar driving experience and many people say a McLaren feels like a faster more substantial Lotus. There are also many McLaren owners who also own Lotus and I know of several 675LT owners with Exige cups too.
It would take quite a while to compare them both so I will have a think about it. I did drive other variants of Lotus and McLaren's too, in fact I have driven many McLarens including the 570 / 570GT / 12C / 650s / 720s / 675LT and some back to back. I also drove the Exige back to back with the Evora and the Elise.
I will try and write something up to compare the 430CUP & 675LT later
Cheers
Justin220 and Bispal ,
Thank you for those 2 comprehensive replies .
I asked the question because when considering what to replace my ancient Series 1 MX5 , the shortlist included the later Toyota engined S2 Elise and Exige , the S3 Elise and Exige , the 570S , and on the outside ( price wise) the 720S .
I ended up with a naturally aspirated 2010 Elise R with the higher revving , but lower torque 2ZZ-GE Engine in an S3 bodyshell . Lotus only made this model for about 10 months , and this particular car was Alastair Florance,s car ...... the head of Lotus PR that I had been in communication with previously. Absolutely standard , but Jim Valentine made up a LOUD , LOUD 2bular exhaust which Bell and Colvill fitted for me before pickup .
I drove the car back from B&C the day before Lockdown in torrential rain , and haven’t used it since .As Justin 220 has alluded to , I know that this engine ( and the exhaust ) will need revving to give its best , so I want to reserve my first proper drive in this 53,000 mile car for when the road conditions , and my own mental attitude, are better suited to having fun .
McLarens are still on my long term radar , and it’s so valuable getting information and feedback from people who have driven and lived with whatever car over a long period . Thank you again both .
And yes Bispal , that would have been me that you met in the marquee at Beaulieu . Your and John Thorney,s comments were critical in convincing me to go for the cheapest and most simple option . So I now know whom to blame if I don’t bond with the Elise R , but I suspect , and hope , that that won’t be the case .
Here’s to Beaulieu 2021 , and hoping to see you there .
Thank you for those 2 comprehensive replies .
I asked the question because when considering what to replace my ancient Series 1 MX5 , the shortlist included the later Toyota engined S2 Elise and Exige , the S3 Elise and Exige , the 570S , and on the outside ( price wise) the 720S .
I ended up with a naturally aspirated 2010 Elise R with the higher revving , but lower torque 2ZZ-GE Engine in an S3 bodyshell . Lotus only made this model for about 10 months , and this particular car was Alastair Florance,s car ...... the head of Lotus PR that I had been in communication with previously. Absolutely standard , but Jim Valentine made up a LOUD , LOUD 2bular exhaust which Bell and Colvill fitted for me before pickup .
I drove the car back from B&C the day before Lockdown in torrential rain , and haven’t used it since .As Justin 220 has alluded to , I know that this engine ( and the exhaust ) will need revving to give its best , so I want to reserve my first proper drive in this 53,000 mile car for when the road conditions , and my own mental attitude, are better suited to having fun .
McLarens are still on my long term radar , and it’s so valuable getting information and feedback from people who have driven and lived with whatever car over a long period . Thank you again both .
And yes Bispal , that would have been me that you met in the marquee at Beaulieu . Your and John Thorney,s comments were critical in convincing me to go for the cheapest and most simple option . So I now know whom to blame if I don’t bond with the Elise R , but I suspect , and hope , that that won’t be the case .
Here’s to Beaulieu 2021 , and hoping to see you there .
Bispal said:
carspath said:
Hi Bispal ,
Please could you tell us , either within this thread or on a new thread , how your Lotus compares with your McLaren .
Even more interesting and useful , would be for you to tell us how the two brands compare ( if you investigated and tested other model variants within each brand before you committed to the particular models that you actually bought )
Thank you
Hi,Please could you tell us , either within this thread or on a new thread , how your Lotus compares with your McLaren .
Even more interesting and useful , would be for you to tell us how the two brands compare ( if you investigated and tested other model variants within each brand before you committed to the particular models that you actually bought )
Thank you
You know I am pretty sure we have met at Beaulieu Supercar Weekend 2019. We sat in the tent with John Thorne discussing McLaren and then our shared passion of MX5's :-) I'm sure you mentioned you were carspath but perhaps I'm mistaken?
The only car I have ever bought and specified new was an S1 Elise in 1998. It started my love of Lotus, the engineering, design & philosophy. There is a real story to the development of the S1 Elise and a superb 2.5 hour documentary you can watch on youtube. "Lotus Elise the Inside Story"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-TiFKr2yb0
I have owned 30 cars since that new Elise in 1998, they are all listed in my garage, but nothing came close to the way it drove and the engineering philosophy until McLaren announced the MP412C.
I may be mistaken or misheard information but I believe 8 of the 10 engineers responsible for the Elise & Exige development went to work at McLaren to develop the MP412C. There are lots of similarities in the conception, the carbon tub very similar in philosophy to the aluminium tub of the Elise. I have heard lots of stories about similarities in design and given Lotus & McLaren are both British F1 constructors and British sports car manufacturers there is similar blood pumping through their veins. The MP4-12C even looks a little like the Esprit concept car from 2010 too.
So I personally think Lotus & McLaren are very similar in philosophy just operating at different price points, they offer a similar driving experience and many people say a McLaren feels like a faster more substantial Lotus. There are also many McLaren owners who also own Lotus and I know of several 675LT owners with Exige cups too.
It would take quite a while to compare them both so I will have a think about it. I did drive other variants of Lotus and McLaren's too, in fact I have driven many McLarens including the 570 / 570GT / 12C / 650s / 720s / 675LT and some back to back. I also drove the Exige back to back with the Evora and the Elise.
I will try and write something up to compare the 430CUP & 675LT later
Cheers
The point is well made. There is definitely some sense of similarity between them. Both totally driver focussed and while the Mc is generations ahead I can certainly concur that it could almost be a modern take on a Lotus Esprit with lessons having been drawn from the Elise.
650spider said:
Definitely!
I am down in Broughty Ferry...i am sometimes up your way as my bestie is out at Bridge of Don.
Few macs here local to me...white 540, black 570, purple 570 spider, black 675LT spider and a red and black senna.
Next time you are up in Aberdeen give me a shout we should meet up and have a chat over a cuppa, social distancing of course as I am near Fraserburgh I am down in Broughty Ferry...i am sometimes up your way as my bestie is out at Bridge of Don.
Few macs here local to me...white 540, black 570, purple 570 spider, black 675LT spider and a red and black senna.
650spider said:
I contacted Sytner about replacing my wives car with a slighty newer version about 3 weeks ago.
Price was pretty near ballpark of what you are talking about and the max they would knock off for straight sale was £500.00...i thought i had misheard but nope...£500.00 and that was all they were willing to drop.
Might change in a few months, but as bispal says, not all sellers need to cut their throat for a sale; even dealers.
I felt that they would of jumped at a sale with £5k off the price in the current climate; they didn't and it was snapped up whilst i pissed about.
Was / am a little bit annoyed with myself as spec was bang on.
Had exactly the same issue with a Porsche dealer over a 992. I thought ok £84k car , surely £80k is doable, er no, max they willing to give off was £500. Price was pretty near ballpark of what you are talking about and the max they would knock off for straight sale was £500.00...i thought i had misheard but nope...£500.00 and that was all they were willing to drop.
Might change in a few months, but as bispal says, not all sellers need to cut their throat for a sale; even dealers.
I felt that they would of jumped at a sale with £5k off the price in the current climate; they didn't and it was snapped up whilst i pissed about.
Was / am a little bit annoyed with myself as spec was bang on.
Edited by EvoSid on Sunday 7th June 00:22
Bispal said:
Yup I have played hard ball when dealers won't drop and lost ideal spec cars and had to compromise. My mantra now is if you see a car in your perfect spec buy it, obviously negotiate to an extent, but you may not see a car like the one you want again and its not worth losing for a few thousand pounds. I pounced on a car I saw last year for sale and offered full asking price as I thought it was a fair price i was happy with. I didn't even negotiate (not like me) as the spec was a once in a lifetime. I the first 2 weeks of ownership I was contacted 3 times by people who wanted it when it was available, but hesitated, all offering me more than I paid. Same again for a car I bought in Jan this year. I waited 2 years for the right spec to come up then pounced. I negotiated a bit but once I had the car I had 2 offers for it in a week from people who had procrastinated. The early bird catches the worm and nothing has changed right now. If you want something and are happy with the price just buy it and enjoy it!
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