McLaren 765LT

McLaren 765LT

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Discussion

SSO

Original Poster:

887 posts

149 months

Sunday 27th September
quotequote all
I finally got to spend some time with the McLaren 765LT last Friday. There is a lot about the design that I like but a few things not so much. Did just post a blog outlining my impressions. Build numbers are a bit of a concern and I do wonder if a 785 R is in the pipeline.

WilliamWaiver

403 posts

3 months

Sunday 27th September
quotequote all
1,530 cars is too many for McLaren.
Look at how many 600LTs they built and what happened to their prices despite being a cracking car. Early adoptors paying list get shafted by McLaren, you are far better buying used a couple of years down tge line when first owner has lost a shed load of money.
I've got a deposit down for a spider but when I take delivery of my 675LT spider in a months time I will probably pull the order altogether wait a couple of years and pick up a bargain.

They should of built 765 coupe/spiders in total IMHO

MeisterH

501 posts

59 months

Monday 28th September
quotequote all
WilliamWaiver said:
1,530 cars is too many for McLaren.
Look at how many 600LTs they built and what happened to their prices despite being a cracking car. Early adoptors paying list get shafted by McLaren, you are far better buying used a couple of years down tge line when first owner has lost a shed load of money.
I've got a deposit down for a spider but when I take delivery of my 675LT spider in a months time I will probably pull the order altogether wait a couple of years and pick up a bargain.

They should of built 765 coupe/spiders in total IMHO
where is the 1530 number of cars from?? Thought only 765 were being made

R8Reece

972 posts

47 months

Monday 28th September
quotequote all
MeisterH said:
where is the 1530 number of cars from?? Thought only 765 were being made
765 coupes and 765 spyders

WilliamWaiver

403 posts

3 months

Monday 28th September
quotequote all
R8Reece said:
765 coupes and 765 spyders
Thats 53% more than 675LT

Mclaren are really clueless on their way to market and used car residuals.
Cracking cars but really costly from new.

JPCGT

170 posts

103 months

Monday 28th September
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WilliamWaiver said:
Thats 53% more than 675LT

Mclaren are really clueless on their way to market and used car residuals.
Cracking cars but really costly from new.
Expect they'll reduce the number of UK RHD cars to match demand, which conversely should help residuals, but still think you'll take a hiding come resale. Understand that dealerships are floating creative GFV finance deals to help secure orders, so fully aware of this being the likely outcome despite it being a great car. Spider will fair slightly better as was the case with the 675LTS.

You've got to have either very deep pockets to stomach the depreciation or want the car very badly.

caminator11

213 posts

56 months

Monday 28th September
quotequote all
Mclaren aren't fussed about residuals. Its about latest/greatest and shifting volume. If you want the newest and best car you can actually buy one (unlike some marques) but you will lose out when you come to sell it.

It also means that the older cars keep dropping in value as they are refreshed more quickly than their competitors. I hate to say it but watch the 675LT values when the 765LT is available.

Love these cars but there is no model (apart from now maybe a 12c) that isn't going to hurt your wallet, I think its important to accept that and manage your own expectations to have a happy ownership experience.

WilliamWaiver

403 posts

3 months

Monday 28th September
quotequote all
caminator11 said:
Mclaren aren't fussed about residuals. Its about latest/greatest and shifting volume. If you want the newest and best car you can actually buy one (unlike some marques) but you will lose out when you come to sell it.

It also means that the older cars keep dropping in value as they are refreshed more quickly than their competitors. I hate to say it but watch the 675LT values when the 765LT is available.

Love these cars but there is no model (apart from now maybe a 12c) that isn't going to hurt your wallet, I think its important to accept that and manage your own expectations to have a happy ownership experience.
675LT is more akin a Ferrari Challenge Stradale IMHO. Early low volume car that will become a future classic not just because of its rarity but because its a stand out piece of engineering for its time.
600LT had a small impact on 675LT only because they were so cheap so quickly.
The spec for my 765LT spider order would be circa £400k which is nearly double what I will be paying for my 675LT spider. Its in another price range now so will have minimal knock on effect IMHO. a £200k car versus a £400k car ( at say £300k after 1 year ) is still £100k or 50% more
Thats big wonga and the race for the latest and greatest is over for most bar the very wealthy

SSO

Original Poster:

887 posts

149 months

Monday 28th September
quotequote all
caminator11 said:
Mclaren aren't fussed about residuals. Its about latest/greatest and shifting volume. If you want the newest and best car you can actually buy one (unlike some marques) but you will lose out when you come to sell it.
Not sure I would agree with you. Per discussions I have had with them recently, McLaren is certainly aware of the residual issue and quite concerned with it as it will impact volumes longer term. Not sure they have a solution for it but they certainly now it is a major issue for the majority of buyers.

WilliamWaiver

403 posts

3 months

Monday 28th September
quotequote all
SSO said:
Not sure I would agree with you. Per discussions I have had with them recently, McLaren is certainly aware of the residual issue and quite concerned with it as it will impact volumes longer term. Not sure they have a solution for it but they certainly now it is a major issue for the majority of buyers.
A lot of guys I know run new ferraris and they all said they would love to have a McLaren but couldn't afford one.
As they are considerably richer than me I asked how come and they all said cost of ownership due to resuduals and uncertainty over discounts off list price.
They felt ferrari was the safer option but not necessarily best car.

I dont see McLaren reducing the 1530 cars to suit demand whilst there is a worldwide pandemic and recession on.
765LT will be critical to production numbers for next 6 months so I can see this going down the same road as 600LT albeit that volume wasn't capped so they built even more and ended uo giving them away.
They have costed production on 1530 units so 1530 is the minimum they will build and any wishful thoughts that the UK will get less and the rest of the world will soak up the rest is misguided ( possibly from dealer sakes patter ) i would suggest.
My dealer suggested similar but was less than convincing and didn't looked like he believed himself.
Bearing in mind he point blank lied to me over 600LT numbers I wasn't falling for that again.

It will be a great car, bloody amazing no doubt but go in with your eyes open and ready to have your pants pulled down if you pay list price .

For me the 675LT has been tge pinnacle for Mclaren and everything has gone downhill since - volumes, build quality, residuals, discounts etc....such a shame as I love the brand and its British as well. Incredibly poorly managed company IMHO

caminator11

213 posts

56 months

Monday 28th September
quotequote all
SSO said:
Not sure I would agree with you. Per discussions I have had with them recently, McLaren is certainly aware of the residual issue and quite concerned with it as it will impact volumes longer term. Not sure they have a solution for it but they certainly now it is a major issue for the majority of buyers.
Fair enough - you sound better informed than I am. Just commenting based on how I've seen them operate so far.

650spider

1,238 posts

129 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
WilliamWaiver said:
SSO said:
Not sure I would agree with you. Per discussions I have had with them recently, McLaren is certainly aware of the residual issue and quite concerned with it as it will impact volumes longer term. Not sure they have a solution for it but they certainly now it is a major issue for the majority of buyers.
A lot of guys I know run new ferraris and they all said they would love to have a McLaren but couldn't afford one.
As they are considerably richer than me I asked how come and they all said cost of ownership due to resuduals and uncertainty over discounts off list price.
They felt ferrari was the safer option but not necessarily best car.

I dont see McLaren reducing the 1530 cars to suit demand whilst there is a worldwide pandemic and recession on.
765LT will be critical to production numbers for next 6 months so I can see this going down the same road as 600LT albeit that volume wasn't capped so they built even more and ended uo giving them away.
They have costed production on 1530 units so 1530 is the minimum they will build and any wishful thoughts that the UK will get less and the rest of the world will soak up the rest is misguided ( possibly from dealer sakes patter ) i would suggest.
My dealer suggested similar but was less than convincing and didn't looked like he believed himself.
Bearing in mind he point blank lied to me over 600LT numbers I wasn't falling for that again.

It will be a great car, bloody amazing no doubt but go in with your eyes open and ready to have your pants pulled down if you pay list price .

For me the 675LT has been tge pinnacle for Mclaren and everything has gone downhill since - volumes, build quality, residuals, discounts etc....such a shame as I love the brand and its British as well. Incredibly poorly managed company IMHO
They can very easily reduce numbers.

How many Elva numbers were announced; that number had since been dropped twice, and may well be dropped again.

They have dramatically reduced 720 production, and thats already working well for them.

They have cut their cloth this year, and may do so again.

The 765 is not super exotic that shall cost them 50% more to manufacture than a 720, it is a modification of a current model.

They shall not flood showrooms like they did with the 600lt, of that you can be sure.

With the planned IPO in a few years, they are learning from mistakes in order to try and make it attractive to investors, and have a lot of hard work ahead.

Your logic with the 675 is also not accurate; you can talk them up as much as you want, but they are not increasing in value, nor being seen as investments now.

They have shed approx 35% of their value since January, and all listings show they are still reducing in value, albeit slower.

Alistair Bols lists a different one almost every 2-3 weeks, and owners are seeing it as a good time to check out right now, hence the steady appearance of them on the market.

It is just going back to how it was 10-15 years ago when supercars lost money at a rate of noughts.

Enjoy what you have and stop being so concerned about values on each post.

If you feel the 765 will tank cancel your order instead of trying to guess whats going to happen.


caminator11

213 posts

56 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
650spider said:
They can very easily reduce numbers.

How many Elva numbers were announced; that number had since been dropped twice, and may well be dropped again.

They have dramatically reduced 720 production, and thats already working well for them.

They have cut their cloth this year, and may do so again.

The 765 is not super exotic that shall cost them 50% more to manufacture than a 720, it is a modification of a current model.

They shall not flood showrooms like they did with the 600lt, of that you can be sure.

With the planned IPO in a few years, they are learning from mistakes in order to try and make it attractive to investors, and have a lot of hard work ahead.

Your logic with the 675 is also not accurate; you can talk them up as much as you want, but they are not increasing in value, nor being seen as investments now.

They have shed approx 35% of their value since January, and all listings show they are still reducing in value, albeit slower.

Alistair Bols lists a different one almost every 2-3 weeks, and owners are seeing it as a good time to check out right now, hence the steady appearance of them on the market.

It is just going back to how it was 10-15 years ago when supercars lost money at a rate of noughts.

Enjoy what you have and stop being so concerned about values on each post.

If you feel the 765 will tank cancel your order instead of trying to guess whats going to happen.
Well said.

Its truly alarming to see someone who has fully sold themselves on the idea of a 675LT being an investment car.

William I'm not sure if you're trying to talk yourself into the upcoming purchase but if the pleasure of your ownership requires the car to retain value you probably do not want either of these cars.

You're not going to realise the car's potential modern classic "Challenge Stradale" value unless you hold onto it for 15 more years - and that is a serious gamble.

We will be deep in a world of EVs and restrictions by that point.

Please also consider what makes a car a classic once it is no longer at the bleeding edge of performance. I would offer that a critical element that all Mclarens miss out on is a characterful power unit and the noise of the 3.8l Ricardo lump is not one that people will be dying to hear when we look back and compare to other modern classic fodder.

All of this is not to win internet points but the relentless value posts are concerning and it looks very much like you're about to get yourself into a situation you don't want to be in.

Bispal

810 posts

109 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
650spider said:
WilliamWaiver said:
SSO said:
Not sure I would agree with you. Per discussions I have had with them recently, McLaren is certainly aware of the residual issue and quite concerned with it as it will impact volumes longer term. Not sure they have a solution for it but they certainly now it is a major issue for the majority of buyers.
For me the 675LT has been tge pinnacle for Mclaren and everything has gone downhill since - volumes, build quality, residuals, discounts etc....such a shame as I love the brand and its British as well. Incredibly poorly managed company IMHO
Your logic with the 675 is also not accurate; you can talk them up as much as you want, but they are not increasing in value, nor being seen as investments now.

They have shed approx 35% of their value since January, and all listings show they are still reducing in value, albeit slower.

Alistair Bols lists a different one almost every 2-3 weeks, and owners are seeing it as a good time to check out right now, hence the steady appearance of them on the market.
I am afraid this simply is not true.

675LT coupes were £185 - £190k in January, I know I bought one in January. They have not dropped 35% of this now, £123,500! In fact they are over £190k and have been for a few months as availability has dried up.

I don't care if they go up or down I'm keeping mine, its the best car I have ever driven and has bags of character. There are only 70 coupes in the UK making them exceedingly rare and should help prop up prices if that's what bothers anyone.

There are only 2 coupes for sale on Autotrader both at over £195k. When I purchased mine there were around 12 for sale. The market has been drying up, there is very little availability. The occasional collector might be selling as many are offloading large chunks of their collections but most owners are keeping long term and the ones for sale are going to long term homes. I know this is there is a very active owners group with over 50% of the UK owners in it.

I also don't know anyone who is selling a 675 to fund a 765 purchase. £190k is a completely different price point to £350k (with options). A 765 will lose £100k in 3 years whereas a 675 may stay static, or lose a bit or gain a bit but you won't lose your shirt, hence their current popularity.






WCZ

7,945 posts

152 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
the 675 as an investment isn't the stupidest idea imo, it has a lot of things going for it and is probably near the bottom of the curve.


WilliamWaiver

403 posts

3 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
Bispal said:
I am afraid this simply is not true.

675LT coupes were £185 - £190k in January, I know I bought one in January. They have not dropped 35% of this now, £123,500! In fact they are over £190k and have been for a few months as availability has dried up.

I don't care if they go up or down I'm keeping mine, its the best car I have ever driven and has bags of character. There are only 70 coupes in the UK making them exceedingly rare and should help prop up prices if that's what bothers anyone.

There are only 2 coupes for sale on Autotrader both at over £195k. When I purchased mine there were around 12 for sale. The market has been drying up, there is very little availability. The occasional collector might be selling as many are offloading large chunks of their collections but most owners are keeping long term and the ones for sale are going to long term homes. I know this is there is a very active owners group with over 50% of the UK owners in it.

I also don't know anyone who is selling a 675 to fund a 765 purchase. £190k is a completely different price point to £350k (with options). A 765 will lose £100k in 3 years whereas a 675 may stay static, or lose a bit or gain a bit but you won't lose your shirt, hence their current popularity.
Well said my man, well said. Some people will talk McLaren values down to negative figures if they could and still think they have credibility rolleyes

Personally im buying it as a keeper so not that bothered about values long term but that doesn't stop me wanting to make a smart purchase.
My kids wouldn't appreciate me needlessly squandering their inheritance although I will try my best

Edited by WilliamWaiver on Tuesday 29th September 13:22

WilliamWaiver

403 posts

3 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
WCZ said:
the 675 as an investment isn't the stupidest idea imo, it has a lot of things going for it and is probably near the bottom of the curve.
Spot on.

Nail on Head. It will be an iconic and classic car within 10 years

davek_964

6,966 posts

133 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
WilliamWaiver said:
Well said my man, well said. Some people will talk McLaren values down to negative figures if they could and still think they have credibility rolleyes
Yes. Much like you've been for every model except the 675.

WilliamWaiver

403 posts

3 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
davek_964 said:
Yes. Much like you've been for every model except the 675.
What car have I talked down exactly ?
I have owned or still own most so not sure where you are coming from on that one.
Agree 675LT is a stand out car and tge mundane regular production doesn't float my boat but they have their merits at the price point.
Why pay a premium if you are happy with the normal car. LT might be twice tge price but the law of diminishing returns suggest its not twice the car until you drive it and then you either get it or you don't.


davek_964

6,966 posts

133 months

Tuesday 29th September
quotequote all
WilliamWaiver said:
davek_964 said:
Yes. Much like you've been for every model except the 675.
What car have I talked down exactly ?
I have owned or still own most so not sure where you are coming from on that one.
Agree 675LT is a stand out car and tge mundane regular production doesn't float my boat but they have their merits at the price point.
Why pay a premium if you are happy with the normal car. LT might be twice tge price but the law of diminishing returns suggest its not twice the car until you drive it and then you either get it or you don't.
You must be joking.

You've talked down values of every car - including the 765LT - citing production numbers, blah blah blah. You've pretty much called the buyers of new cars idiots despite the fact that you'd be unable to take advantage of used prices - even on your halo car - if somebody didn't buy new.

How you can question when you've done it - when 90% of your posts are how the 675 will hold value / every other McLaren will be worth less than a pot to piss in within 5 minutes / how vast your business empire is - defies belief.

You're either trolling or slightly delusional.