612 considerations
Discussion
Hello folks
Newbie here in Ferrari-land and considering a 612 at some point this year. I currently have a V12 Vantage however 3 is a crowd so looking at 4 seater alternatives.
In terms of affordability, I’d be looking at a pre 2008 model. I have searched here and Ferrari Chat and have an understanding of servicing costs (not dissimilar to the Vantage) however keen to understand costs for non-service items.
Can anyone help put together some PPI items and associated costs?
Eg of some items I’ve picked up on:
Belts - every 4-5 yrs - £1500 to ..?
Clutch
Ball joints
Suspension arms (?)
Shocks (?)
Sticky switchgear
Instrument panel failure
Air con components
I think it’s these areas which will determine affordability for me, rather than the mandated servicing costs.
MPG appears to be pretty horrific at around 10-12, worse than the Vantage (manual) where I see 14-15 in town, 22-24 on the motorway. I will cover circa 3k a year (normally)
Lastly in terms of driving, is the V12 engine vocal, or, like the V12 Vantage, is it dominated by the exhaust? It’s my main criticism of the Vantage, no intake/induction noise to speak of. What is the 612 like?
Thanks in advance
Newbie here in Ferrari-land and considering a 612 at some point this year. I currently have a V12 Vantage however 3 is a crowd so looking at 4 seater alternatives.
In terms of affordability, I’d be looking at a pre 2008 model. I have searched here and Ferrari Chat and have an understanding of servicing costs (not dissimilar to the Vantage) however keen to understand costs for non-service items.
Can anyone help put together some PPI items and associated costs?
Eg of some items I’ve picked up on:
Belts - every 4-5 yrs - £1500 to ..?
Clutch
Ball joints
Suspension arms (?)
Shocks (?)
Sticky switchgear
Instrument panel failure
Air con components
I think it’s these areas which will determine affordability for me, rather than the mandated servicing costs.
MPG appears to be pretty horrific at around 10-12, worse than the Vantage (manual) where I see 14-15 in town, 22-24 on the motorway. I will cover circa 3k a year (normally)
Lastly in terms of driving, is the V12 engine vocal, or, like the V12 Vantage, is it dominated by the exhaust? It’s my main criticism of the Vantage, no intake/induction noise to speak of. What is the 612 like?
Thanks in advance
Am more or less in the same boat, but with a slightly bigger budget (80 to 110k£)
- 612 OTO or HGTC2 from 2008-2009
- FF from 2013
- 991.2 GTS Targa
Same story: sold one of our trucks and now looking for a daily cruiser to seat all of us (2 little boys 4 and 6yrs old)
And we need vocals
FF would be the winner there
and in terms of looks I actually prefer both the 612 and GTS Targa rather than the FF.
At OP have you considered a late Maserati GT MC Stradale maybe?
- 612 OTO or HGTC2 from 2008-2009
- FF from 2013
- 991.2 GTS Targa
Same story: sold one of our trucks and now looking for a daily cruiser to seat all of us (2 little boys 4 and 6yrs old)
And we need vocals
FF would be the winner there and in terms of looks I actually prefer both the 612 and GTS Targa rather than the FF.
At OP have you considered a late Maserati GT MC Stradale maybe?
Edited by 911Thrasher on Tuesday 26th January 17:52
I've had a couple of 612's. I don't think the fuel will be that noticeable at 3k miles a year (unless they're all at above 5k revs!). My first was on the standard exhaust and aside from start-up was a bit too discreet. The second had sport back boxes and the overrun sound was just epic.
Don't recall too many sticky switches (you'll only have to do them once anyway), but other interior parts are fragile and, needless to say expensive. Things such as window switches, side mirror control (VERY fragile), heated seats etc. The latter, plus things like parking sensors and tyre pressure sensors, are all things that seem to fail on most cars approaching ten years old, but a specialist vs main dealer would probably sort for a reasonable cost.
They also tend to eat ball joints (I think, including the Hill Engineering ones but at a slower rate) and I had to replace the manifold gaskets on my second car. Again, something that's not that uncommon. I think 5 years is the accepted cam belt interval now, though it was 3 originally.
Good luck with your search. I miss mine a lot.
Don't recall too many sticky switches (you'll only have to do them once anyway), but other interior parts are fragile and, needless to say expensive. Things such as window switches, side mirror control (VERY fragile), heated seats etc. The latter, plus things like parking sensors and tyre pressure sensors, are all things that seem to fail on most cars approaching ten years old, but a specialist vs main dealer would probably sort for a reasonable cost.
They also tend to eat ball joints (I think, including the Hill Engineering ones but at a slower rate) and I had to replace the manifold gaskets on my second car. Again, something that's not that uncommon. I think 5 years is the accepted cam belt interval now, though it was 3 originally.
Good luck with your search. I miss mine a lot.
I've run my 2007 Scag for coming up to 5 years now and the car has been reliable and epic albeit with some frustrating issues. That said I do live in a country with pretty extreme high temperatures which have contributed to some of the problems I think, especially the sticky buttons. How a basic Fiesta can have functioning switches and buttons yet Ferrari contrives to give you ones that melt is beyond my understanding. There are specialists that make excellent switch repairs but it's not cheap at all.
As above, the standard exhaust is fairly tame, you will need a sport / aftermarket system if you really want to hear the magic.
Engines are bulletproof, the real issues are the electrical gremlins - random heated seats turning on and off, parking sensors bleeping for no reason, tpms etc - and the general fragileness of the interior - I seem to have done another window switch (passenger side this time) which is a complete ballache and expensive. My leather headlining detached itself twice (as i said its hot here) - its badly installed from new - so I finally replaced with alcantara which I think actually looks better.
Get the Hill Engineering uprated reverse lever - the oem as fitted is made of cheese. Try to make sure the F1 system has been maintained properly if you can by checking the service records available.
It is s big car and you will need to be on top of the suspension bushes / tie ends etc
In the end you are looking at a 10+ year old low volume essentially handmade car. They are solid, reliable and fantastic cars but not cheap to run - obviously - so buy on condition and how the previous owners have maintained the car rather than on mileage. I am coming up to 40,000kms and its run like clockwork mechanically.
The F-Chat 599/612 section has loads of information and advice. I just picked up the Alfa 164 bonnet struts that were identified on a thread there for 12 quid from ebay. Stuff like that really helps, especially here where no are no independent servicing options and I am stuck with the Main Ferrari dealership. They wanted to charge me 10k sterling to replace the ac condenser until I told them to follow the F-Chat thread as to how to reboot the AC system.
Re-reading the above I realise might come across as negative but actually no, I love it and it's a keeper. It is a fantastic car and I never drive using the default Auto setting, always F1-S. The F1 trans needs a little time to adapt to but once you master it, it's pretty good. It suits the nature of the car rather than a MT imo. It's also one of the few Ferrari's that I think red doesn't really suit and there are plenty of fantastic colour options available - especially the blues / greys / silvers.
Just go in with your eyes open and get the best one you can afford.
Gratuitous pic attached
As above, the standard exhaust is fairly tame, you will need a sport / aftermarket system if you really want to hear the magic.
Engines are bulletproof, the real issues are the electrical gremlins - random heated seats turning on and off, parking sensors bleeping for no reason, tpms etc - and the general fragileness of the interior - I seem to have done another window switch (passenger side this time) which is a complete ballache and expensive. My leather headlining detached itself twice (as i said its hot here) - its badly installed from new - so I finally replaced with alcantara which I think actually looks better.
Get the Hill Engineering uprated reverse lever - the oem as fitted is made of cheese. Try to make sure the F1 system has been maintained properly if you can by checking the service records available.
It is s big car and you will need to be on top of the suspension bushes / tie ends etc
In the end you are looking at a 10+ year old low volume essentially handmade car. They are solid, reliable and fantastic cars but not cheap to run - obviously - so buy on condition and how the previous owners have maintained the car rather than on mileage. I am coming up to 40,000kms and its run like clockwork mechanically.
The F-Chat 599/612 section has loads of information and advice. I just picked up the Alfa 164 bonnet struts that were identified on a thread there for 12 quid from ebay. Stuff like that really helps, especially here where no are no independent servicing options and I am stuck with the Main Ferrari dealership. They wanted to charge me 10k sterling to replace the ac condenser until I told them to follow the F-Chat thread as to how to reboot the AC system.
Re-reading the above I realise might come across as negative but actually no, I love it and it's a keeper. It is a fantastic car and I never drive using the default Auto setting, always F1-S. The F1 trans needs a little time to adapt to but once you master it, it's pretty good. It suits the nature of the car rather than a MT imo. It's also one of the few Ferrari's that I think red doesn't really suit and there are plenty of fantastic colour options available - especially the blues / greys / silvers.
Just go in with your eyes open and get the best one you can afford.
Gratuitous pic attached
Thoughts on this one?
https://www.orionsolutions.co.uk/ferrari-612-scagl...
No mention of number of owners (unlike another of theirs) so assume high. Is 40-50k deemed high on these? I’m guessing Ferrari are just as mileage sensitive as Aston Martin.
https://www.orionsolutions.co.uk/ferrari-612-scagl...
No mention of number of owners (unlike another of theirs) so assume high. Is 40-50k deemed high on these? I’m guessing Ferrari are just as mileage sensitive as Aston Martin.
cornershop said:
Gents, thanks for your respective inputs.
I had forgotten about gearbox servicing - will add that to the PPi checklist. I now see F1 fluid should be changed every 3 years.
Per my question above, is the engine itself audible over the exhaust? I much prefer intake noise over exhaust
In standard spec the engine and exhaust are pretty underwhelming. I also have a DB9 and that sounds truly epic. You really need a sport system or an aftermarket job on the 612 to get the noise you expect from a V12 Ferrari. A 612 was designed to cross continents in comfort and style, hence it is muted in the sound / noise department.I had forgotten about gearbox servicing - will add that to the PPi checklist. I now see F1 fluid should be changed every 3 years.
Per my question above, is the engine itself audible over the exhaust? I much prefer intake noise over exhaust
cornershop said:
Gents, thanks for your respective inputs.
I had forgotten about gearbox servicing - will add that to the PPi checklist. I now see F1 fluid should be changed every 3 years.
Per my question above, is the engine itself audible over the exhaust? I much prefer intake noise over exhaust
If you can stretch the budget to an FF and are happy with the looks then it's a much better proposition than a 612. I had forgotten about gearbox servicing - will add that to the PPi checklist. I now see F1 fluid should be changed every 3 years.
Per my question above, is the engine itself audible over the exhaust? I much prefer intake noise over exhaust
cornershop said:
Thoughts on this one?
https://www.orionsolutions.co.uk/ferrari-612-scagl...
No mention of number of owners (unlike another of theirs) so assume high. Is 40-50k deemed high on these? I’m guessing Ferrari are just as mileage sensitive as Aston Martin.
Lovely colour, good spec - polished challenge alloys, twin wall sports exhaust and Daytonas. Extended leather & shields. HGTS. Nice car.https://www.orionsolutions.co.uk/ferrari-612-scagl...
No mention of number of owners (unlike another of theirs) so assume high. Is 40-50k deemed high on these? I’m guessing Ferrari are just as mileage sensitive as Aston Martin.
Mileage is high for a Ferrari - the usual madness - so factor in that you might take a bath at resale unless you are not overly concerned. 612's still have a way to go until they bottom out imo, They are stuck between the much loved and holding steady manual 550/575's and the rapidly depreciating FF's. 612's are maybe more appreciated now than when new and looks which are ageing well. They will find a niche in the market accordingly. OTO's and Sessanta's will always command strong money, however the 612 as per the one on the link with good spec and options will always be sought after.
It's an old school design and concept as a gentleman's super GT to drive from Mayfair to Monte Carlo on a whim. Time I feel will be kind to the 612.
Thanks again BM
I think I really need to try one - if you’re saying a DB9 sounds better than a standard 612, I’m likely to be disappointed. My V12 Vantage has the full Bamford Rose manifold and sport cat setup but I still miss induction noise.
I thought I’d be able to hear some of the character of the engine rather than just exhaust noise. The vantage exhaust sounds fabulous once wound up, however I can’t always travel at 4K+ rpm
I think I really need to try one - if you’re saying a DB9 sounds better than a standard 612, I’m likely to be disappointed. My V12 Vantage has the full Bamford Rose manifold and sport cat setup but I still miss induction noise.
I thought I’d be able to hear some of the character of the engine rather than just exhaust noise. The vantage exhaust sounds fabulous once wound up, however I can’t always travel at 4K+ rpm
Go and test one and see if you can live with the F1 box first. Exhausts can be improved upon but the F1 in the 612 is not for everyone. Once mastered it is great but it is older tech. I lift slightly when changing up otherwise its quite aggressive. And don't leave it in the default Auto setting!
Buttmonkey said:
Go and test one and see if you can live with the F1 box first. Exhausts can be improved upon but the F1 in the 612 is not for everyone. Once mastered it is great but it is older tech. I lift slightly when changing up otherwise its quite aggressive. And don't leave it in the default Auto setting!
The same technique is required for the Aston sportshift gearboxes so the 612 shouldn't be a problem for anyone familiar with the Aston robotised manuals.By the way, that's a gorgeous 612 you have. I love the colour combo
ANOpax said:
The same technique is required for the Aston sportshift gearboxes so the 612 shouldn't be a problem for anyone familiar with the Aston robotised manuals.
By the way, that's a gorgeous 612 you have. I love the colour combo
The AM is better I think, smoother.By the way, that's a gorgeous 612 you have. I love the colour combo
Thanks, Argento Nurburgring w/black roof and full 'Jordan's knicker drawer' red red red everywhere interior. And gold wheels......
ANOpax said:
If you can stretch the budget to an FF and are happy with the looks then it's a much better proposition than a 612.
as i mentioned on the other thread (i, too, am looking into both 612 OTO or FF)...it also seems that running costs are much higher for a FF (PTU and DCT common issues? from what i read) than 612 Edited by 911Thrasher on Thursday 28th January 14:30
911Thrasher said:
as i mentioned on the other thread (i, too, am looking into both 612 OTO or FF)...it also seems that running costs are much higher for a FF (PTU and DCT common issues? from what i read) than 612
I replied in the FF price thread but the summary is I reckon a steel roofed and braked 612 will be cheaper than an FF to run but a CCB'd OTO could be as costly.Edited by ANOpax on Friday 29th January 12:30
Ran one as a daily for 4 years and added about 20 k miles . Biggest cost was the suspension re-fit . But overall a fun and good with the kids in the back . Gentlemans tourer , and yes when I first saw one at launch , I did not like the appearance , now when I see one , I think that is really pretty car .
Kids grew up and now 6 ft 5 tall ....... back in Porsche GT3RS , as they prefer public transport ( Cooler )
Kids grew up and now 6 ft 5 tall ....... back in Porsche GT3RS , as they prefer public transport ( Cooler )
hunter 66 said:
Ran one as a daily for 4 years and added about 20 k miles . Biggest cost was the suspension re-fit . But overall a fun and good with the kids in the back . Gentlemans tourer , and yes when I first saw one at launch , I did not like the appearance , now when I see one , I think that is really pretty car .
Kids grew up and now 6 ft 5 tall ....... back in Porsche GT3RS , as they prefer public transport ( Cooler )
Thanks - what sort of suspension work did this entail? Can I ask how much too?Kids grew up and now 6 ft 5 tall ....... back in Porsche GT3RS , as they prefer public transport ( Cooler )
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