Tavarish P1 rebuild
Discussion
ecksjay said:
C5_Steve said:
Is your P1 stock then....
I forgot this was a discussion about my garage. My bad buddy. I'm all for wild builds, but it's quite funny to see how sensitive fanboys get when you criticise their favourite YouTubers.
Do you have the same views about Ian Callum and Lanzante? It's an interesting question, when is the car no longer the car. Is it ok if the entire exterior and interior and every other mechanical part is changed EXCEPT the powertrain for example?
I fail to see how saying it isn't really a P1 any more equates to having a "strong opinion of what someone should do with their own car". It is possible to not think it's a P1 any more while simultaneously thinking Freddie is free to do whatever he wants with his own property, the two are not mutually exclusive.
I also fail to see what the contents someone's own garage has to do with being able to express that opinion.
I also fail to see what the contents someone's own garage has to do with being able to express that opinion.
murphyaj said:
I fail to see how saying it isn't really a P1 any more equates to having a "strong opinion of what someone should do with their own car". It is possible to not think it's a P1 any more while simultaneously thinking Freddie is free to do whatever he wants with his own property, the two are not mutually exclusive.
I also fail to see what the contents someone's own garage has to do with being able to express that opinion.
It's perfectly possible to also think it's now a pink unicorn. The point of a discussion is to understand where someone's viewpoint comes from. Other wise we're all just shouting into the abyss I also fail to see what the contents someone's own garage has to do with being able to express that opinion.
Great, we are in agreement. Then how about we actually ask that question?
Now we have moved on from suggestions that anyone is expressing an opinion on "what someone should do with their own car", or pointlessly asking if their P1 is stock, we can get back on topic.
For me the P1 was the hypercar evolution of the super series as it was at the time. The carbon tub was largely the same as you get in a 650S or 720S, albeit with an integrated roof to make it even stiffer, the transmission was largely the same, and the engine was a reworked version of the one you'll find in a 650S. Within the McLaren model line the thing that made it really stand out, the USP of the P1, was the hybrid drive. Not all cars are defined by their drivetrain choice, but this one was, mostly due to its place in the model line up and how it was presented by the manufacturer. For my money that means this is now a custom build car that is based on a P1, rather than being a P1. Swapping the engine on a 911 doesn't stop it being a 911 in the same way, but the circumstances are different. A 911 is already available with different engines, and Porsche didn't make one very specific engine the main selling point of the 911. There are other cars that are a grey area between those two examples, but the P1 sits firmly at one end of that spectrum for me.
Does that make it worse? Probably not. I actually think Freddie made the right choice here. Trying to fix the hybrid system was a fools errand, taking the car back to stock would have been more trouble than it was worth, and if he hadn't bought the car it probably would have been broken for parts. I think what he has chosen to do was the best possible outcome for this car. I still don't think it's a P1 any more though.
Now we have moved on from suggestions that anyone is expressing an opinion on "what someone should do with their own car", or pointlessly asking if their P1 is stock, we can get back on topic.
For me the P1 was the hypercar evolution of the super series as it was at the time. The carbon tub was largely the same as you get in a 650S or 720S, albeit with an integrated roof to make it even stiffer, the transmission was largely the same, and the engine was a reworked version of the one you'll find in a 650S. Within the McLaren model line the thing that made it really stand out, the USP of the P1, was the hybrid drive. Not all cars are defined by their drivetrain choice, but this one was, mostly due to its place in the model line up and how it was presented by the manufacturer. For my money that means this is now a custom build car that is based on a P1, rather than being a P1. Swapping the engine on a 911 doesn't stop it being a 911 in the same way, but the circumstances are different. A 911 is already available with different engines, and Porsche didn't make one very specific engine the main selling point of the 911. There are other cars that are a grey area between those two examples, but the P1 sits firmly at one end of that spectrum for me.
Does that make it worse? Probably not. I actually think Freddie made the right choice here. Trying to fix the hybrid system was a fools errand, taking the car back to stock would have been more trouble than it was worth, and if he hadn't bought the car it probably would have been broken for parts. I think what he has chosen to do was the best possible outcome for this car. I still don't think it's a P1 any more though.
C5_Steve said:
murphyaj said:
I fail to see how saying it isn't really a P1 any more equates to having a "strong opinion of what someone should do with their own car". It is possible to not think it's a P1 any more while simultaneously thinking Freddie is free to do whatever he wants with his own property, the two are not mutually exclusive.
I also fail to see what the contents someone's own garage has to do with being able to express that opinion.
It's perfectly possible to also think it's now a pink unicorn. The point of a discussion is to understand where someone's viewpoint comes from. Other wise we're all just shouting into the abyss I also fail to see what the contents someone's own garage has to do with being able to express that opinion.
MX5s and Minis are about the joy or driving and how they're hilarious to chuck about. Nobody really cares if you junk the whatever-the-name-of-an-MX5-engine-even-is or the A-series and install something better or wilder.
Yet the MX5's role model, the Lotus Elan would be viewed as a lesser specimen were you to remove the Lotus twink for something else.
Sure the P1's active aero and all that was special, but it was the powertrain that was the real stand out feature.
Don't deny its going to be a massively modified macca, the one off bodywork will be special, the engine will no doubt be highly potent, but all of that is stuff that could be done to any of the £60k-ish Mclarens currently at the bottom of the pile on autotrader, with a casual half million dollar saving on the overall project cost.
murphyaj said:
Great, we are in agreement. Then how about we actually ask that question?
Apologies I didn't realise you're the thread police 
How comfortable is that white horse?The response to my info was sarcastic, so I asked a genuine question in a slightly blunt way. There are actually many hypercar owners in here, so it was still a genuine question. In any event I'll continue to ask questions as I see fit ta.
As to the rest of your response, it's a decent well rounded view. I disagree the hybrid element is the essence of the P1 though. It's well documented the issues the battery pack has and how they're currently limited in what they can do. The engine itself is shared in multiple applications so again, keeping it all in house seems the right way to go.
It's interesting that there wasn't nearly as much nose thumbing of Mad Mikes MadMac, which wasn't even a P1 chassis let alone the engine. There's far too much focus on what the car is or isn't, rather than celebrating someone saving something that was going to be scrapped anyway.
MclaesLaren said:
Richard Hammond has his opinion very clear.
https://youtu.be/YmVt1YcjTbA?si=la5ArjMXMeQo47q4
Tavarish has to get his act together
Honestly, who gives a rats what he has to say on the subject? But, but Mr Hammond said this….https://youtu.be/YmVt1YcjTbA?si=la5ArjMXMeQo47q4
Tavarish has to get his act together
But yes, far, far too long between updates and struggling to remember/care what is going on. I really hope he gets it going to his satisfaction. Would be good to see at least.
Ah I see now, it was a genuine question.
Despite the fact that ecksjay had never given any impression that he has a P1, and modified P1s are virtually unheard of, you thought that he might just happen to have a P1, and wanted to enquire in good faith as to whether it was modified. Thanks for clearing that up.
Somehow I leapt to the conclusion that it was an attempt to imply that he didn't have the right to question Freddie's decision unless he had a P1, and then passive-aggressively make that point by asking if his was modified while knowing full well he didn't have one. No idea why I would get that impression. I apologise wholeheartedly and I am glad we cleared up this unfortunate misunderstanding.
Back on whether it is a P1. While I disagree I can respect the perspective of people who think it still is one. It did start life as a P1, and 90% of the car is still the same, so it is perfectly reasonable to hold that view. This is definitely an area where I wouldn't expect everyone to agree.
Despite the fact that ecksjay had never given any impression that he has a P1, and modified P1s are virtually unheard of, you thought that he might just happen to have a P1, and wanted to enquire in good faith as to whether it was modified. Thanks for clearing that up.
Somehow I leapt to the conclusion that it was an attempt to imply that he didn't have the right to question Freddie's decision unless he had a P1, and then passive-aggressively make that point by asking if his was modified while knowing full well he didn't have one. No idea why I would get that impression. I apologise wholeheartedly and I am glad we cleared up this unfortunate misunderstanding.
Back on whether it is a P1. While I disagree I can respect the perspective of people who think it still is one. It did start life as a P1, and 90% of the car is still the same, so it is perfectly reasonable to hold that view. This is definitely an area where I wouldn't expect everyone to agree.
Edited by murphyaj on Wednesday 18th June 19:50
MclaesLaren said:
Just about to post this.Geoff600LT said:
I'm more inclined towards the more subtle version 3 using the original spoiler
In all honesty I would prefer if he were to stick to rebuilding the original P1, but he’s gone that far away from that, he may as well go balls out now. Just my 2p and not everyone will agree.I think most of his modifications are very sensible given the condition his car was in after the flood.
When i heard Frank Stephenson had designed a new body for him i was quite optimistic but the rear wing options are disgusting.
At least the new body will hopefully fix the wonky fitment of the last attempt.
When i heard Frank Stephenson had designed a new body for him i was quite optimistic but the rear wing options are disgusting.
At least the new body will hopefully fix the wonky fitment of the last attempt.
MclaesLaren said:
IBut, I guess this serie of P1 rebuild will drag on for one more year.
Only one more year? I suspect like the majority of his cars it will never be finished. Like his Mclaren engine he blew up two years ago, or the fire damaged 355 he bought from Hoovie six years ago. 
Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff