Tesla S - or - Why can't everybody else...?
Discussion
So all the mainstream car manufacturers are spending billions and billions to produce platforms. It's such an expensive business that the platforms need to be scalable and modular to cover a whole range of models, with rivals co-operating on JVs - or even just buying in - platforms from each other.
Yet Tesla, on a relative shoestring, manage to produce a complete car. Not just a complete car, but one that breaks new technical ground AND is amongst the best of the sector to drive. And it's their very first ever attempt at a platform, too.
WTF? How? Where have Tesla found such a cache of seriously top-notch chassis and suspension and NVH and whateverelse engineers? What've they been doing up until now?
Or is there somebody being utterly ignored, jumping up and down at the back shouting as loud as they can about the Emperor's sartorial choices?
Yet Tesla, on a relative shoestring, manage to produce a complete car. Not just a complete car, but one that breaks new technical ground AND is amongst the best of the sector to drive. And it's their very first ever attempt at a platform, too.
WTF? How? Where have Tesla found such a cache of seriously top-notch chassis and suspension and NVH and whateverelse engineers? What've they been doing up until now?
Or is there somebody being utterly ignored, jumping up and down at the back shouting as loud as they can about the Emperor's sartorial choices?
kambites said:
...and threw money at the project.
That's the thing. They didn't.The public estimates of development cost are $400m for the entire car.
PSA and GM are reckoned to have spent over €600m on just one platform.
There's rumours of VW missing profit targets because of just the development overspend on a platform.
AnotherClarkey said:
Bagging a massive car factory on their doorstep for a knockdown price will have helped too. Mercedes and Toyota both put moderate but useful sums of money in and Toyota provided a lot of assistance with manufacturing.
So did Mercedes and Toyota invest purely as an investor might - expecting a profitable return on investment. Or did they invest expecting to get access to some of the technology and R&D that Tesla have done? Chicane-UK said:
AnotherClarkey said:
Bagging a massive car factory on their doorstep for a knockdown price will have helped too. Mercedes and Toyota both put moderate but useful sums of money in and Toyota provided a lot of assistance with manufacturing.
So did Mercedes and Toyota invest purely as an investor might - expecting a profitable return on investment. Or did they invest expecting to get access to some of the technology and R&D that Tesla have done? kambites said:
DonkeyApple said:
Wasn't the Roadster linked with Lotus?
Yes; IIRC Lotus supplied the tub (from the Elise) and actually manufactured the car for them, minus the drive-train. The Model-S is entirely in-house as far as I know, though. The difference between TM and GM is that TM is a growth stock and GM in income stock. As such, profit isn't important to TM at this stage. What adds value to their share price is expansion. GM and all the other established manufacturers must deliver share holder returns as profit and dividends as they are mature businesses.
I've not checked but I imagine TM trades on a very big multiple and GM on single digits, or close.
Saw a documentary about the model S the other night on National Geographic
They build the S entirely in house in a closed down GM factory in California. The entire production line for the S uses less than 20% of the facility. They hired a guy who used to set up Toyota's North American factories to set theirs up. Seemed very state of the art when compared with other documentaries on car building, lots of new robots, massive die presses for the aluminium panels etc.
They also hinted that the next big thing from Tesla would be a small city type car, costing the equivalent of other petrol small cars, they were hinting that that would be the use for the unused 80% of the factory.
Very good documentary, keep an eye out for it.
They build the S entirely in house in a closed down GM factory in California. The entire production line for the S uses less than 20% of the facility. They hired a guy who used to set up Toyota's North American factories to set theirs up. Seemed very state of the art when compared with other documentaries on car building, lots of new robots, massive die presses for the aluminium panels etc.
They also hinted that the next big thing from Tesla would be a small city type car, costing the equivalent of other petrol small cars, they were hinting that that would be the use for the unused 80% of the factory.
Very good documentary, keep an eye out for it.
When I read the road test of the S in Autocar I was gobsmacked. I have always been intrigued by any new technology in cars and am in the minority who don't think that showing this interest will emasculate me; so the Tesla was quite extraordinary. An electric car which lived up to the promise of the idea- who would have thought ? And why is every body else lagging behind ? Hybrids like the Prius and Volt are fine (yes, I said it ) but the range anxiety with stuff like the Leaf is enough to put most people off.
...the reason Tesla are ahead is because they've been smarter than everybody else:
- a "non OEM" entrepreneurial mind-set (not held back by history, not afraid to take calculated risks, not afraid to threaten "conventional engine" products)
- "silicon valley tech" brand image
- premium pricing (but still accessible to target audience)
- attractive design and proportions
- awesome performance
- enough battery capacity to suppress "range anxiety"
- practical useful spacious comfortable car
...it's a desirable and practical "high status without guilt " premium EV - what's not to like ?
As such, it's a game changer - like the iPod or Nintendo Wii.
Almost certain that every significant car manufacturer has bought at least one for benchmarking and teardown....
Will
- a "non OEM" entrepreneurial mind-set (not held back by history, not afraid to take calculated risks, not afraid to threaten "conventional engine" products)
- "silicon valley tech" brand image
- premium pricing (but still accessible to target audience)
- attractive design and proportions
- awesome performance
- enough battery capacity to suppress "range anxiety"
- practical useful spacious comfortable car
...it's a desirable and practical "high status without guilt " premium EV - what's not to like ?
As such, it's a game changer - like the iPod or Nintendo Wii.
Almost certain that every significant car manufacturer has bought at least one for benchmarking and teardown....
Will
Is anyone else waiting for Technomatt to arrive and rant about how s
t the Tesla is 
For me the Model S is probably a car I will buy, and keep for decades. What other car has seats 7 (with the jump seats), has loads of boot space, look fantastic, goes like stink, and has a robust and simple drivetrain?
t the Tesla is For me the Model S is probably a car I will buy, and keep for decades. What other car has seats 7 (with the jump seats), has loads of boot space, look fantastic, goes like stink, and has a robust and simple drivetrain?
98elise said:
For me the Model S is probably a car I will buy, and keep for decades. What other car has seats 7 (with the jump seats), has loads of boot space, look fantastic, goes like stink, and has a robust and simple drivetrain?
I'm in the same boat as you. Great looks
Really fast
Very practical
Very cheap to run
Very low maintenance costs
Is the best technology to rival IC vehicles.
You tube has a lot of vids at the drag strip this thing beats Vipers SRTs and only just loses to the E63 AMG bi turbo....
12 second 1/4 mile and 110 mph terminal speed.
What is not to like?
Petrol heads were rightly worried that GWizzs were the future and what a sad place that would be - well worry not the future looks very good
98elise said:
For me the Model S is probably a car I will buy, and keep for decades. What other car has seats 7 (with the jump seats), has loads of boot space, look fantastic, goes like stink, and has a robust and simple drivetrain?
That is my thinking too - pre-pay for another battery pack up front and it only costs $10000 - $12000 depending on size. That is 20 years of motoring on a warranted battery pack which takes 90 seconds to swap. Other servicing should be quite straightforward given the simple mechanical nature of the car and electronics like the entertainment system can probably be swapped out to keep up with the times as necessary.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff