Hybrids - anything to watch for?
Discussion
The test of the Jazz Hybrid suggested the back end felt disconnected from the front. I test drove one for my mother and had to agree. Ultimately, she fancied the Hybrid but we ened up looking at the 1.4 Jazz Auto.
We looked at the Yaris (the Auris has a ridiculously small boot) but the materials inside were cheap and nasty compared to the Jazz.
As it turned out, my mother ended up buying a 1200 mile Focus 1.6 Powershift but there are different cost implications when looking at autos.
We looked at the Yaris (the Auris has a ridiculously small boot) but the materials inside were cheap and nasty compared to the Jazz.
As it turned out, my mother ended up buying a 1200 mile Focus 1.6 Powershift but there are different cost implications when looking at autos.
mcflurry said:
Aside from the additional upfront costs, are there any downsides to shopping trolley Hybrids, compared to the regular petrol version of the same car?
For example, the Toyota Yaris Hybrid vs the 1.3litre petrol, or Honda Jazz vs Jazz Hybrid?
If you're talking reliability / durability of hybrid components on anything with a Toyota / Lexus badge then have no worries - worldwide stats show the hybrid elements are the most durable parts of the cars - you also benefit from greatly improved disc / pad life, no alternator to fail, SMR (service, maintenance and repair) costs on hybrids are certainly the lowest in the respective ranges For example, the Toyota Yaris Hybrid vs the 1.3litre petrol, or Honda Jazz vs Jazz Hybrid?
Andy665 said:
If you're talking reliability / durability of hybrid components on anything with a Toyota / Lexus badge then have no worries - worldwide stats show the hybrid elements are the most durable parts of the cars - you also benefit from greatly improved disc / pad life, no alternator to fail, SMR (service, maintenance and repair) costs on hybrids are certainly the lowest in the respective ranges
NO NO NO someone will be along any minute with absolutely nothing to back it up saying that hybrids need a brand new battery once every 18 monthsNo major downsides that I can think of.
Hybrids sometimes have a smaller fuel tank, since space is needed for the battery. This means that the overall range on a full tank may not be any better than the non-hybrid, despite the better mpg. It's also worth checking the boot space between hybrid and non-hybrid versions. I know that in early hybrid models the boot space got compromised, but perhaps that has been sorted out now.
The engine tends to run at constant speed, which means that when accelerating you tend to hear a constant engine note (like a CVT) rather than a varying sound. This takes getting used to. Honda use an actual CVT, whereas Toyota use something completely different but which still tries to keep the engine speed constant.
IMHO these are vastly outweighed by the advantages. The drivetrain is actually simpler than many non-hybrid cars since the addition of the electric drive removes so many other components. As Andy665 says, this tends to make them more reliable than the alternatives.
Hybrids sometimes have a smaller fuel tank, since space is needed for the battery. This means that the overall range on a full tank may not be any better than the non-hybrid, despite the better mpg. It's also worth checking the boot space between hybrid and non-hybrid versions. I know that in early hybrid models the boot space got compromised, but perhaps that has been sorted out now.
The engine tends to run at constant speed, which means that when accelerating you tend to hear a constant engine note (like a CVT) rather than a varying sound. This takes getting used to. Honda use an actual CVT, whereas Toyota use something completely different but which still tries to keep the engine speed constant.
IMHO these are vastly outweighed by the advantages. The drivetrain is actually simpler than many non-hybrid cars since the addition of the electric drive removes so many other components. As Andy665 says, this tends to make them more reliable than the alternatives.
My FIL has a Yaris Hybrid, it seemed very well put together and virtually silent whether it was on Volts or petrol.
I think the tank is about 30l, but he gets about 300 miles out of it. MIL gets about 100m out of the tank I am sure (binary throttle, doesn't sit just under 30 in a 30 zone to just use EV mode etc etc etc), electric range alone is about 10 miles or so.
If my usage pattern changed to just frequent short journeys I'd definitely consider it.
I think the tank is about 30l, but he gets about 300 miles out of it. MIL gets about 100m out of the tank I am sure (binary throttle, doesn't sit just under 30 in a 30 zone to just use EV mode etc etc etc), electric range alone is about 10 miles or so.
If my usage pattern changed to just frequent short journeys I'd definitely consider it.
fatboy b said:
Friends of ours have just bought an 11 plate Jazz hybrid. They are quite disappointed with the economy so far with a mixture of short and long journeys. Averaging 48mpg. The o/h and her Seat 2.0tdi Ibiza is getting high 50s - low 60s.
Mild hybrids will always be less efficient than a full hybrid, especially in urban environments which really is the home of many superminis - unfortunately most customers and most salespeople see the word hybrid and think they are all the same which is not the case at all AmitG said:
Honda use an actual CVT, whereas Toyota use something completely different but which still tries to keep the engine speed constant.
Not so - Toyota use an electronic CVT gearbox - still noowhere near as good as a conventional auto but it gives them the ability to maximise the efficiency of the powertrainEdited by Andy665 on Thursday 2nd January 12:29
LuS1fer said:
fatboy b said:
Friends of ours have just bought an 11 plate Jazz hybrid. They are quite disappointed with the economy so far with a mixture of short and long journeys. Averaging 48mpg. The o/h and her Seat 2.0tdi Ibiza is getting high 50s - low 60s.
But paying 6-10p more a litre.This time of year I'm averaging 47MPG whereas in the summer I'll average 57.
Yes, the fuel tank is a bit smaller than in a non hybrid car but it still easily does 450 miles before it gets down to only two bars on the fuel gauge.
LuS1fer said:
fatboy b said:
Friends of ours have just bought an 11 plate Jazz hybrid. They are quite disappointed with the economy so far with a mixture of short and long journeys. Averaging 48mpg. The o/h and her Seat 2.0tdi Ibiza is getting high 50s - low 60s.
But paying 6-10p more a litre.early toyotas had a notoriously expensive battery unit - £9000 to replace. Most rear end shunts resulted in the car being written off if the batteries got the slightest touch.
Honda units are much much smaller because they have less capacity - IIRC they were around £700 to replace.
Honda put a 5 year warranty on all the hybrid tech (not sure if it's transferable) because that was the expected life of the battery to remain efficient. - they do last beyond this but they slowly diminish.
one thing, especially with the honda tech - no good if you do motorway mileage. They regenerate using braking etc so if you drive, at a steady 70-80 for any reasonable length of time you will be getting minimal help from the batteries and therefore it will be the same as driving a 1.3 at 70mph (not very good for mpg)
The CVT gearboxes are very smooth but the moment you want to make progress you lose it all through slip.
Honda units are much much smaller because they have less capacity - IIRC they were around £700 to replace.
Honda put a 5 year warranty on all the hybrid tech (not sure if it's transferable) because that was the expected life of the battery to remain efficient. - they do last beyond this but they slowly diminish.
one thing, especially with the honda tech - no good if you do motorway mileage. They regenerate using braking etc so if you drive, at a steady 70-80 for any reasonable length of time you will be getting minimal help from the batteries and therefore it will be the same as driving a 1.3 at 70mph (not very good for mpg)
The CVT gearboxes are very smooth but the moment you want to make progress you lose it all through slip.
xRIEx said:
LuS1fer said:
Isn't the hybrid zero VEL too?
104g/km so it's £20, £105 for the 2.0TDi Ibiza.
The Jazz is pretty pitiful TBH.
Similar price new, so for me a no-brainer. Plus I can't stand hybrids.
Edited by fatboy b on Thursday 2nd January 17:17
Pixelpeep said:
early toyotas had a notoriously expensive battery unit - £9000 to replace. Most rear end shunts resulted in the car being written off if the batteries got the slightest touch.
Honda units are much much smaller because they have less capacity - IIRC they were around £700 to replace.
Honda put a 5 year warranty on all the hybrid tech (not sure if it's transferable) because that was the expected life of the battery to remain efficient. - they do last beyond this but they slowly diminish.
one thing, especially with the honda tech - no good if you do motorway mileage. They regenerate using braking etc so if you drive, at a steady 70-80 for any reasonable length of time you will be getting minimal help from the batteries and therefore it will be the same as driving a 1.3 at 70mph (not very good for mpg)
The CVT gearboxes are very smooth but the moment you want to make progress you lose it all through slip.
Where does the 'slip' occur in the Toyota CVT?Honda units are much much smaller because they have less capacity - IIRC they were around £700 to replace.
Honda put a 5 year warranty on all the hybrid tech (not sure if it's transferable) because that was the expected life of the battery to remain efficient. - they do last beyond this but they slowly diminish.
one thing, especially with the honda tech - no good if you do motorway mileage. They regenerate using braking etc so if you drive, at a steady 70-80 for any reasonable length of time you will be getting minimal help from the batteries and therefore it will be the same as driving a 1.3 at 70mph (not very good for mpg)
The CVT gearboxes are very smooth but the moment you want to make progress you lose it all through slip.
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