HHO fuel cells , Do they really work ?
Discussion
I did GCSE Chemistry and Physics. It was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure the principal of conservation of energy hasn't changed since then.
Put another way: A HHO generator would have to break fundamental laws governing energy and matter to work as advertised.
Put yet another way: it really is utter b
ks
Put another way: A HHO generator would have to break fundamental laws governing energy and matter to work as advertised.
Put yet another way: it really is utter b
ksChedd said:
There seems to be some evidence on youtube that some of them do
Riiight. "Some evidence on YouTube". From either gullible evangelists or shiny-suited salesmen.Chedd said:
have you done some research on this ?
Rather more to the point, is there any even remotely credible evidence they DO work? There's a hell of a lot of stuff out there debunking them, wholesale, and it carries a lot more credibility than the claims they do work.Very simple rule of thumb. Has any car manufacturer, in these economy- and emission-obsessed times even CONSIDERED fitting HHO/Brown's Gas to any production car? No? Why not?
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 1st March 22:04
http://youtu.be/YKR22vKZPTY?t=7m48s
Realistically, if they worked then everyone would already be using them, the oil companies cannot keep everyone under their thumb. the only way to use hydrogen in a car is with an electric generating fuel cell and electric motors, and it still takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get from it.
Realistically, if they worked then everyone would already be using them, the oil companies cannot keep everyone under their thumb. the only way to use hydrogen in a car is with an electric generating fuel cell and electric motors, and it still takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get from it.
TooMany2cvs said:
Basic common sense should tell people this bit.
If the reverse was true, perpetual motion would have been invented.
Just imagine the carnage in the event of a crash, "I canna turn off the HHO generator captain! she's gonna blow!" If the reverse was true, perpetual motion would have been invented.
But seriously, I think (I hope) that they will perfect energy efficient hydrogen production on an industrial scale and get equal or more energy out than production uses, this will then pave the way to true green motoring with fuel cell cars and all their convenience as they only take a short time to refill
Edited by Buzz84 on Monday 2nd March 17:08
Chedd said:
There seems to be some evidence on youtube that some of them do , have you done some research on this ?
They do exactly what they are designed to doRemove money from dumb people
If you don't belive me then answer this question
Seeing that they are blocked by big oil but you can easily download the plans from the internet then why hasn't a rouge state like North korea using them to run everything?
McWigglebum4th said:
They do exactly what they are designed to do
Remove money from dumb people
If you don't belive me then answer this question
Seeing that they are blocked by big oil but you can easily download the plans from the internet then why hasn't a rouge state like North korea using them to run everything?
Thanks , I am only asking the question , I am no physicist , there is an aussie company that sells a product that supposedly turns your car into a petrol/deisel / hydro hybrid , here is what he had to say when I asked him if there were a system that could run a car on hydrogen created by electrolosis ......................Remove money from dumb people
If you don't belive me then answer this question
Seeing that they are blocked by big oil but you can easily download the plans from the internet then why hasn't a rouge state like North korea using them to run everything?
You cannot defy the law of conservation of energy… ie you cant get more energy out of a vehicle or system that the amount of energy you put into the system,
A typical car of weight 1000kg driving at 60 km/hr (16.6 m/sec) uses 138000 joules of chemical energy per second to get to that speed… This means that you need at least 138000 joules of chemical energy ( petrol) per second . A hydrogen generator using 15 amp and 12 volts uses 180 joules of electrical energy to make a maximum of 180 joules of chemical energy ( hydrogen) each second….. So to answer you question – no you cant run purely on hydrogen from electrolysis… please don’t get fooled by the pseudo -scientific mumbo jumbo garbage from the US . they HAVE NO scientific knowledge and keep ranting about resonance… Resonance allow energy transfer to be optimized but does not create energy.
My Hydrogen systems do increase the thermal efficiency of an engine by using all the fuel energy rather than being lost out the exhaust. Modern vehicles wast half their
fUel as a partly burnt fuel out the exhaust. Secondly hydrogen injection allows fuel to burn at top dead centre rather than burn on the expansion n stroke …. Its pointless burning at the bottom of the power stroke of the piston. Hydrogen cleans the engine and ensures deposites don’t alter the air flow In the chamber = max efficiency
There are many other points to consider and these are found on my web page
My systems are world leader systems because they are designed to not wast electrical energy input --- the US design is only 15 % to 20$ efficient …..another reason why the US systems cannot work purely on water. My systems are 85% to 90% efficient
Kind regards
There is definitely something in adding hydrogen to conventional combustion, but it really seems more like a scientific curiosity rather than anything ground breaking. A lecturer of mine was also under the impression that hydrogen could dissociate from moist air inside the cylinder, helping combustion in dual fuel Diesel engines.... It was only a hunch though, totally untested. As I say, bit of what happens if we do this? Curiosity.
Some shiny-suited snake oil salesman said:
Modern vehicles wast half their fUel as a partly burnt fuel out the exhaust.
<cough>ollocks.The MOT unburnt HC limit in exhausts is 1,200 parts per million. That's just over one part in a thousand, for a carb-fuelled car to fail the MOT. Any remotely healthy carb-fuelled car will have a much, MUCH lower unburnt HC level than that. Anything with injection and a cat will be near-as-dammit zero.
Visualise a teaspoon, 5ml. A fifth of that teaspoon, 1ml, of fuel in a litre bottle of exhaust gas will fail the MOT.
One teaspoon of fuel, 5ml, will take one and a bit tons of 50mpg car nearly 90 metres. I think that's fairly damn incredibly efficient, tbh, and to suggest half of that fuel is wasted just proves that this muppet is trying to rip you off.
I'd also be VERY sceptical of anybody who suggests his product is six times more effective than that of his competitors because of some secret sauce that only he knows. Well, 'scuse me, but why are you fannying about flogging onesy-twosy tat on eBay or wherever, when you could be reclining on a beach on your own island from the proceeds of selling the patents?
Chedd said:
Hi , I am new here and am looking at opening a discussion about using an HHO fuel cell and its viability , I am interested in making/buying one and wonder if anyone else is in the same boat !
Chedd said:
*snip*
My Hydrogen systems do increase the thermal efficiency of an engine by using all the fuel energy rather than being lost out the exhaust. Modern vehicles wast half their
My Hydrogen systems do increase the thermal efficiency of an engine by using all the fuel energy rather than being lost out the exhaust. Modern vehicles wast half their
- snip*
- SORRY missread part of the post stating that this was info from a 3rd party*
Chedd said:
A hydrogen generator using 15 amp and 12 volts uses 180 joules of electrical energy to make a maximum of 180 joules of chemical energy ( hydrogen) each second…..
The system wont be getting out what you are putting in, there will be resistance in the wiring resulting in energy losses through heating, the cell plates will have inefficiencies, water purity, conditions etc etcWhat will also happen is that all the extra electrical generation required to power the hydrogen systems will put more load on the engine through the alternator. This load will mean that the engine needs to work harder and will burn more fuel to meet the increased power needs.
This will negate the fuel savings that the hydrogen system provides, leaving you back at square one and no better for it.
Edited by Buzz84 on Monday 2nd March 23:56
Edited by Buzz84 on Tuesday 3rd March 11:18
TooMany2cvs said:
Buzz84 said:
You've changed your tune rather quickly, in your first post you are interested in building one, then a post later you are a manufacturer/designer/seller of these systems.
I think you might have missed...Chedd said:
...here is what he had to say when I asked him...
Whoops, my bad. It's really clear now you've pointed that out, even got the dotted line to separate the info...
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