Tesla Model X - a hit in the UK?
Discussion
Phunk said:
The majority of charging is going to happen at night, which is when the grid has lots of spare capacity.
Even peak demand is falling due to a shift to more efficiently appliances and lots of localised solar PV generation. Infact the national grid is facing the problem of having TOO MUCH spare generating capacity!! http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-national-grid-sum...
It takes 10 seconds on Google for people to see the arguments about 'coal powering dirty electricity' is now a total fallacy, yet so many still rather hold on to that belief out of some bizarre loyalty to Clarkson??
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 23 April 06:02
Phunk said:
CrgT16 said:
The cars are not that green, afterall the batteries, the electricity is not all done cleanly... coal power plants?
Electricity generation is moving away from coal. Also, think about what goes into creating petrol? Drilling, refineries, petrol tankers etc.CrgT16 said:
With the price tag I think the small saving on fuel (relatively speaking) does not outweigh inconvenience of refuelling
EV will very hardly become mainstream as the issue is recharging.
Compare £40 to do 300 miles in a typical car (something with similar performance would be significantly more) to £10 for 300 miles, or £0 if you use a supercharger.EV will very hardly become mainstream as the issue is recharging.
Inconvenience of charging? For 99.9% of journeys you are taking 2 seconds to plug the car in at night, with the added advantage of getting into a nice warm & defrosted car in the winter. Every morning your car has a full 'tank'
Compare that to queuing to get into the petrol station, spending 5 minutes filling your car, another 5 minutes queuing to pay. Which if you had a car with similar performance to a Tesla would give you a range of 300 miles anyway.
OK, so on long journeys it takes 45 minutes to charge. However after driving 300 miles I'd want to stop for a bite to eat and a wee anyway!
CrgT16 said:
Where would we get the electricity to power millions of cars if EV became mainstream? Difficult enough powering kettles at peak times!
The majority of charging is going to happen at night, which is when the grid has lots of spare capacity. Superchargers for new cars is also no longer free after the first few uses each year. It works out at about 30p / kWh or 10p/mile, 300 miles would therefore cost £30. Ecotricity and other paid for charging is just as expensive if not more. Home charging and a number of public chargers are however still free, especially in Scotland.
On the flip side, there have been arguments made that the energy required to refine a gallon of petrol could power an electric car about 40 miles, i.e. the same distance as the refined product would then achieve. I don't believe it's that extreme, but I could easily believe it's maybe 15 miles given the 'back of a fag packet' maths I've seen.
There is however a lot if concern over child exploitation where cobalt is produced. This article talks as much about mobile phones as well as cars, but there are others that focus on auto including Tesla
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/01/Chi...
Nothing is clear cut in life, I think we should be a little wary about being too cocky that an electric car is not spewing out crap outside our schools and therefore the whole process is near perfection. I'd wager it is a lot better than petrol or diesel, but they all have imperfections and making our benefit some child's problem isn't a way to live.
Heres Johnny said:
Nothing is clear cut in life, I think we should be a little wary about being too cocky that an electric car is not spewing out crap outside our schools and therefore the whole process is near perfection. I'd wager it is a lot better than petrol or diesel, but they all have imperfections and making our benefit some child's problem isn't a way to live.
I was a school child in the 50s, complete with buses and lorries pumping out black clouds. It doesn't seem to have affected me.
rockin said:
If people are stupid enough to buy these things they will get what they deserve.
My BIL was apparently stupid then, and absolutely loves it. I can certainly see the attraction of being able to overtake 3 caravans in places where previously he'd have struggled to get past one, all with the wife, kids, dog and luggage in the car too.
There were a lot of silly points made in that GT i3 vs Golf GTI test, one appears to be true and that is the crapness of Ecotricity charge points. Tesla have sidestepped that with their own network which means that a Telsa as your only car is just so much more feasible than other EVs.
The price of entry is high at the moment, but if you have the money and one makes sense for you there's nout wrong with being a trailblazer. Can't understand all the hate but it makes me like them more!
The price of entry is high at the moment, but if you have the money and one makes sense for you there's nout wrong with being a trailblazer. Can't understand all the hate but it makes me like them more!
Soooooooooooooo the tesla....
This is the crux, the tipping point. I think Tesla are enjoying the void between hydrocarbons and ecotricity. Once the mainstream come on line you will find tesla will die as a model, they wont be able to compete. Tesla will make money on batteries, not on vehicles. they cant compete with modern car makers and once they start to make electric cars then that will be it for tesla as a car manufacturer.
car companies dont want the electric car, in fact for long and weary they hated them. yes the dabbled but never brought anything out that would challenge their own bread and butter. Why would they ? they make money off of their cars maintaining them and supplying spare parts. They built the odd hybrid, again with an engine to ensure that the customer was tied to having them serviced.
An electric car needs no where near the same maintenance as a fossil fuel car. so wont bring them in money as much as what a normal car will. Tesla are cashing in just now with this status quo, but once the car manufactures make cars that compete with tesla or exceed tesla then the writing will be on the wall.....
This is the crux, the tipping point. I think Tesla are enjoying the void between hydrocarbons and ecotricity. Once the mainstream come on line you will find tesla will die as a model, they wont be able to compete. Tesla will make money on batteries, not on vehicles. they cant compete with modern car makers and once they start to make electric cars then that will be it for tesla as a car manufacturer.
car companies dont want the electric car, in fact for long and weary they hated them. yes the dabbled but never brought anything out that would challenge their own bread and butter. Why would they ? they make money off of their cars maintaining them and supplying spare parts. They built the odd hybrid, again with an engine to ensure that the customer was tied to having them serviced.
An electric car needs no where near the same maintenance as a fossil fuel car. so wont bring them in money as much as what a normal car will. Tesla are cashing in just now with this status quo, but once the car manufactures make cars that compete with tesla or exceed tesla then the writing will be on the wall.....
98elise said:
rockin said:
If people are stupid enough to buy these things they will get what they deserve.
Care to expand? I have one on order and I'm an engineer with a few decades experience so I'm far from stupid. l'm wondering what your thoughts process was.The supposed value of Tesla as a company compared with established players is a red herring. The retail power of the big boys is all-pervading and their stock market valuations are simply held back by historic employment/pension liabilities, much like the airlines.
Splashing big money on a Tesla may be a "statement" but few people are that desperate.
How many manufacturers own their dealer networks to make money from downstream servicing? Very few, they're all largely franchised.
Has anyone looked at Tesla servicing costs, they're as high if not higher than most German brands. £400+ quid every 12k miles for a service. As a result S ome owners don't bother, so we'll end up with a used car market of unserviced cars, cant see that being popular.
Tesla are living in a competition free bubble, and as they're growing past the early adopters and trying to ramp up volume they're struggling. Build quality is very patchy although I think it's largely a symptom of increasingly demanding buyers who have shelled out 100k+ on a car and a US idea to fit and finish which has always been there.
Personally, I think they're living on a knife edge. Law suits over their software (and Mack if promised features) are already starting, their safety ratings are getting reduced because of missing features (something tesla say they're fixing by a software update), and it's only going to take a few more negative stories plus a company like Jaguar putting a competitive alternative on the road and the market may start falling out of love. That said, there are plenty who love the idea of Tesla, they're just not close enough to see the reality which is better than they expect in some respects, and worse in others. What's it's probably not is what they expected.
Has anyone looked at Tesla servicing costs, they're as high if not higher than most German brands. £400+ quid every 12k miles for a service. As a result S ome owners don't bother, so we'll end up with a used car market of unserviced cars, cant see that being popular.
Tesla are living in a competition free bubble, and as they're growing past the early adopters and trying to ramp up volume they're struggling. Build quality is very patchy although I think it's largely a symptom of increasingly demanding buyers who have shelled out 100k+ on a car and a US idea to fit and finish which has always been there.
Personally, I think they're living on a knife edge. Law suits over their software (and Mack if promised features) are already starting, their safety ratings are getting reduced because of missing features (something tesla say they're fixing by a software update), and it's only going to take a few more negative stories plus a company like Jaguar putting a competitive alternative on the road and the market may start falling out of love. That said, there are plenty who love the idea of Tesla, they're just not close enough to see the reality which is better than they expect in some respects, and worse in others. What's it's probably not is what they expected.
Interesting comments on this thread.
I rode in a Tesla Model S taxi several times in Amsterdam just last week and was mightily impressed. Speaking with the driver, the car had covered 298,000 km and the only thing it'd had was brake pads and tyres. Although only an 85, the driver kindly demonstrated it's acceleration - which was Porsche 911 rivalling. He did say that across the 298,000 km that the batteries had lost about 10% of their efficiency.
There were no squeaks and rattles from it which surprised me given the mileage. Nappa leather and trim was holding up well.
Norway and the Netherlands are way ahead of the UK in EV adoption. Sitting in the Amsterdam traffic jam at rush hour i counted 3 further Model S, 2 Model x's, several Golf GTE's and a Passat GTE.
As someone pointed out, the motor industry does not want us to adopt EV's. Aside of the Tesla, most are extremely poor offerings and feel like a poverty spec car. Hopefully the new Jaguar and the Model 3 will start to change things. The other manufacturers are seriously behind Tesla in their current offerings - most of which are not pure EV's, only hybrids. Actually, i'll go as far to say that Tesla is making a complete laughing stock of the main manufacturers - of their inability (for their own selfish reasons) to bring any zero emission cars that people would actually be happy to drive to the market.
I rode in a Tesla Model S taxi several times in Amsterdam just last week and was mightily impressed. Speaking with the driver, the car had covered 298,000 km and the only thing it'd had was brake pads and tyres. Although only an 85, the driver kindly demonstrated it's acceleration - which was Porsche 911 rivalling. He did say that across the 298,000 km that the batteries had lost about 10% of their efficiency.
There were no squeaks and rattles from it which surprised me given the mileage. Nappa leather and trim was holding up well.
Norway and the Netherlands are way ahead of the UK in EV adoption. Sitting in the Amsterdam traffic jam at rush hour i counted 3 further Model S, 2 Model x's, several Golf GTE's and a Passat GTE.
As someone pointed out, the motor industry does not want us to adopt EV's. Aside of the Tesla, most are extremely poor offerings and feel like a poverty spec car. Hopefully the new Jaguar and the Model 3 will start to change things. The other manufacturers are seriously behind Tesla in their current offerings - most of which are not pure EV's, only hybrids. Actually, i'll go as far to say that Tesla is making a complete laughing stock of the main manufacturers - of their inability (for their own selfish reasons) to bring any zero emission cars that people would actually be happy to drive to the market.
rockin said:
98elise said:
rockin said:
If people are stupid enough to buy these things they will get what they deserve.
Care to expand? I have one on order and I'm an engineer with a few decades experience so I'm far from stupid. l'm wondering what your thoughts process was.The supposed value of Tesla as a company compared with established players is a red herring. The retail power of the big boys is all-pervading and their stock market valuations are simply held back by historic employment/pension liabilities, much like the airlines.
Splashing big money on a Tesla may be a "statement" but few people are that desperate.
Why will they obliterate Tesla? I don't want an electric Golf, Focus etc (which I can buy right now). GM have the Volt on sale right now...and its selling slowly. You can buy a Merc B class right now as an EV. Where are the 400k orders for these cars?
Tesla have hit the right spot for me. I want an EV, but I want it to be engineered as an EV from the ground up. I don't want an ICE car with a retrofitted EV drive train. I also want it to look like a car, not a 1960's movie prop.
I'm not buying mine because I want to make a statement. I really don't give a s
t what my car says about me. I currently drive a 12 year old fiesta with 100k+ on the clock even though I can afford to buy a Tesla. I'm buying it because I want the car.Edited by 98elise on Thursday 27th April 13:55
98elise said:
I don't want an electric Golf, Focus etc (which I can buy right now). GM have the Volt on sale right now...and its selling slowly. You can buy a Merc B class right now as an EV. Where are the 400k orders for these cars?
The GM volt they aren't bringing to the UK, no idea why, it would wipe the floor with all other (non Tesla offerings)The Mercedes B class is actually really good, however they didn't include a rapid charge option. If they did, they would sell significantly more.
However, the biggest reason EV's aren't selling is the general perception of them. Most people think of them like old milk floats, really slow and need charged every 30 miles.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff