Tesla Roll-Out

[anonymous-user]

Disco Infiltrator said:

The only ones I see are minicabs or chauffeur cars. Less than one a month for sure. Worldwide sales of around 150000 in 6 years would suggest they aren't particularly common anywhere.

The Yank's best selling car, the Toyota Camry, sold more than 230000 cars in 2016 alone.

And the Model S starts at £60k or £70k USD.

Presumably your last sentence should be $60k or $70k USD? So about the same in $ as the are in £ over here. About 1/3 more here?

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th September 08:50

[anonymous-user]

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

[Ares]

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

In fairness to Tesla, if you compare like for like size/performance, the cost is nothing like as bad as they naysayers will have you believe, even moreso when you factor in overall ownership costs. Lease costs are a lot higher, but when you factor in the tax position of that, you're not far from breaking even.

Try ordering a new one, the waiting time for some models is significant. Not as bad as it was a year ago (when they ramped up production), but still there

[Heres Johnny]

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

Definitely not supply anymore, they have over 200 cars in stock from 3 years old to delivery miles

[anonymous-user]

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

In fairness to Tesla, if you compare like for like size/performance, the cost is nothing like as bad as they naysayers will have you believe, even moreso when you factor in overall ownership costs. Lease costs are a lot higher, but when you factor in the tax position of that, you're not far from breaking even.

Try ordering a new one, the waiting time for some models is significant. Not as bad as it was a year ago (when they ramped up production), but still there

Could you enlarge on your breaking even calculation?

Maybe 12 months ago, I drew a comparison between a Tesla S with a middling spec and a quite highly specced 530D. The maths told me that you could buy the BMW, fuel it for 4 years and throw it away and still be £££ in compared to the cost of the S.

Maybe if you're not paying personally and can manage with the limited range my argument's less valid but less than 3% of cars in the U.K. are bought by Companies and not all of us commute.

Time will tell; hopefully when Tesla get some competition, which they no doubt will, we'll see some realism come into the pricing.

[gangzoom]

REALIST123 said:

Maybe 12 months ago, I drew a comparison between a Tesla S with a middling spec and a quite highly specced 530D.

I thought been a 'petrolhead' been a car has more to do with how good it feels to drive than numbers?

If your after the cheapest way to get from A to B, dont buy a Tesla. But if your one of the best cars on the road a Tesla really is hard to beat. I wouldn't trade in ours for anything else on the market at any price point.

[Shuks76]

Just about to sell our 535d and picking up a Model S this weekend. My decision was based on:

1. Do I cover enough miles to truly benefit from going electric? Yes - will do around 20k miles a year.
2. Do I have the infrastructure around me to easily make the switch? Yes - home charger installation possible and Superchargers available nearby.
3. Will I enjoy being able to drive into London almost daily through the congestion charge zone for free? Yes.
4. Is the car special enough to warrant a premium over a heavily discounted new 5 series (540i)? Yes - 10 mins into the test drive and was hooked. The autopilot feature is something I will be using heavily on my daily commute in/out of London. Plus it is nice to drive something that is rare on UK roads.
5. What are the true running costs versus filling up with diesel every week? I anticipate saving at least £200 a month on fuel costs. So when you take this off the increased monthly for the Tesla there is not too much difference.
6. I believe the residual values offered by the Tesla PCP were fairly strong, and hopefully in 3yrs from now I might even see some equity in the vehicle. Lets see what happens. Apparently used diesel car values are on the rise according to Autotrader, so anything could be possible.
7. Extremely low finance rate of 1.5% APR on a high value car is always an incentive.

I am not some green warrior (my other car is a BMW M3 Competition Pack), but there is something very satisfying with driving a fast/comfortable/good looking electric car that does not pollute its way in/out of the city. I can see a BMW i3s on the horizon when they up the range next year to 120ah.

[Ares]

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

In fairness to Tesla, if you compare like for like size/performance, the cost is nothing like as bad as they naysayers will have you believe, even moreso when you factor in overall ownership costs. Lease costs are a lot higher, but when you factor in the tax position of that, you're not far from breaking even.

Try ordering a new one, the waiting time for some models is significant. Not as bad as it was a year ago (when they ramped up production), but still there

Could you enlarge on your breaking even calculation?

Maybe 12 months ago, I drew a comparison between a Tesla S with a middling spec and a quite highly specced 530D. The maths told me that you could buy the BMW, fuel it for 4 years and throw it away and still be £££ in compared to the cost of the S.

Maybe if you're not paying personally and can manage with the limited range my argument's less valid but less than 3% of cars in the U.K. are bought by Companies and not all of us commute.

Time will tell; hopefully when Tesla get some competition, which they no doubt will, we'll see some realism come into the pricing.

I was basing it on something a lot spicier than a 530d!

Roughly, the Tesla was 200-250/mth more. Half of that (at least) was saved in fuel the rest eaten up by the reduced taxation.

[anonymous-user]

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

In fairness to Tesla, if you compare like for like size/performance, the cost is nothing like as bad as they naysayers will have you believe, even moreso when you factor in overall ownership costs. Lease costs are a lot higher, but when you factor in the tax position of that, you're not far from breaking even.

Try ordering a new one, the waiting time for some models is significant. Not as bad as it was a year ago (when they ramped up production), but still there

Could you enlarge on your breaking even calculation?

Maybe 12 months ago, I drew a comparison between a Tesla S with a middling spec and a quite highly specced 530D. The maths told me that you could buy the BMW, fuel it for 4 years and throw it away and still be £££ in compared to the cost of the S.

Maybe if you're not paying personally and can manage with the limited range my argument's less valid but less than 3% of cars in the U.K. are bought by Companies and not all of us commute.

Time will tell; hopefully when Tesla get some competition, which they no doubt will, we'll see some realism come into the pricing.

I was basing it on something a lot spicier than a 530d!

Roughly, the Tesla was 200-250/mth more. Half of that (at least) was saved in fuel the rest eaten up by the reduced taxation.

Why? In reality the S is no more useful than a cooking 5 series. You can't use the performance without decimating the range and the evidence shows that most owners wander along at a very sedate pace to maintain a half decent range. To be fair I tend to wander along in my 530, though even averaging 80/90 across Europe it will do well in excess of 400 miles on a tank.

Every review I've read, and my own experience, classifies the handling of the S as mediocre or similar; sound levels at motorway speeds are similar to a diesel 5 series. The build quality is not yet at 5 series levels, nor the quality of trim and interior. IMO from experience and research.

It's unreasonable, again IMO, to compare it with something 'a lot spicier' than a 530d. Give us an example. 0-60 times aren't the be all and end all.

[anonymous-user]

gangzoom said:

REALIST123 said:

Maybe 12 months ago, I drew a comparison between a Tesla S with a middling spec and a quite highly specced 530D.

I thought been a 'petrolhead' been a car has more to do with how good it feels to drive than numbers?

If your after the cheapest way to get from A to B, dont buy a Tesla. But if your one of the best cars on the road a Tesla really is hard to beat. I wouldn't trade in ours for anything else on the market at any price point.

Not sure what your first para means?

In what way is a Tesla one of the best cars on the road? Especially at the price?

I'd really like to know. Clearly you're committed but sometimes you do seem to be a bit evangelistic.

I would readily agree that the S is one of, if not the best, EV on the road at this time but IMO there are many cars, at the price, which are far better in every way, other than quite irrelevant 0-60 times and being green, and plenty that are just as good at a much lower cost.

I don't want the cheapest way of getting from A to B. I wouldn't have the cars I have if I did. But I equally don't want to pay very significantly more to get from A to B unless there is some extremely tangible benefit.

Especially when B is 300 or 400 miles away from A. .

[Heres Johnny]

REALIST123 said:

In what way is a Tesla one of the best cars on the road? Especially at the price?

I'd really like to know. Clearly you're committed but sometimes you do seem to be a bit evangelistic.

I would readily agree that the S is one of, if not the best, EV on the road at this time but IMO there are many cars, at the price, which are far better in every way, other than quite irrelevant 0-60 times and being green, and plenty that are just as good at a much lower cost.

I don't want the cheapest way of getting from A to B. I wouldn't have the cars I have if I did. But I equally don't want to pay very significantly more to get from A to B unless there is some extremely tangible benefit.

Especially when B is 300 or 400 miles away from A. .

Everybody has a different opinion in what they value in a car. So everything in your opinion is true, because it’s in your opinion.

An electric drive train, instant torque, smooth as silk, is like no ICE. It’s wins the drag races because it can fuss free launch a 2 ton car, but that fuss free but powerful driving dynamic is available anywhere. It’s like having the best auto gearbox in the world that’s always in the right gear. If you enjoy stirring the cogs, either the skill in a well executed shift or just the drama of the bam in your back on a full bore change you’ll hate it. People don’t complain that a rolls Royce is lacking in driving drama.

Then the design. Very different inside, the minimalist aspect, the use of a great big touch screen. Some people like cottage kitchens with lots of wood and detail and pans hanging from the ceiling, others minimalist. It’s taste, but like most things, the more extreme you are the more you’re likely to polarise opinion. If you like the idea of what Tesla have done, you may well love it as they’ve done it more than anyone.

Then AutoPilot. It’s the devil on a petrolhead forum, and it’s not finished, far from it, but for anyone that does motorway driving, it’s a game changer. Nobody sane takes a thrill from driving any distance on a motorway. If you want to drive 300 mikes to Scotland you can either jump in most ICE, drive for 4 hours and arrive knackered or do it on AP, arrive in 5 hours feeling button fresh. It will come to other cars in time, and it’s nothing to do with electric, it’s to do with being prepared to innovate harder. BMWs game change is to wave your hand to change the volume when your thumb is probably already resting on a steering wheel mounted volume control.

And finally, people have personal reasons for brand loyalty. Gang feels his family were protected in a side impact smash in a Tesla and he’s doubtful other cars would have done the same. We’ll never know, but if you think a brand/Model/feature has saved the life or prevented serious injury if you orva loved one, you’re going to have an affinity

But all this points to one thing. It’s personal opinion. There is no definition of what makes the best car in the world, so it’s pointless then trying to say which cars fulfills the brief the best. It’s not fuelling time to do a journey most people never do, it’s not 0-60 times, it’s not driving pleasure, it not running costs or depreciation or lease costs or BIK or what the neighbours think.

If you don’t like EVs, just go elsewhere, you’re entitled to an opinion, but trying to tell EV owners they’re wrong based on nothing but your own personal priorities is the same as going into the Audi forum as a Merc fan and saying theyve got it all wrong.

Edited by Heres Johnny on Friday 22 September 04:18

[manracer]

Ares said:

Disco Infiltrator said:

Spunagain said:

Odd, as How many left - model S shows well over 5000 model S's.
How many left - model X shows over 500 model X's.
And that can be up to 6 months out of date...

Edited by Spunagain on Tuesday 19th September 13:00

It's a figure I found on another site. I certainly don't see many.

Loads round here, more than their fair share of £100k cars represented.

Still nothing like as many as in the US though.

I've been in the US for the last 2 weeks. I've covered 1500 miles. I've send 4 model S and 0 model x.

And I'm not anti EV, I have a model 3 on order.
Certainly expected to see more. Maybe I will this next week in California.

[gangzoom]

REALIST123 said:

In what way is a Tesla one of the best cars on the road? Especially at the price?

If you think a BMW 530d can compare to any EV interms of driving pleasure than you simply wouldnt get it, and we can agree to disagree.

I'm the same with watches, the last watch I had was a freebie, and I really cannot understand why people spend ££££ on things like Rolex etc .

[gangzoom]

manracer said:

I've been in the US for the last 2 weeks. I've covered 1500 miles. I've send 4 model S and 0 model x.

And I'm not anti EV, I have a model 3 on order.
Certainly expected to see more. Maybe I will this next week in California.

California has accounted for roughly 50% of Tesla sales in the US. In LA your see a Tesla on every street, but in NewYork your see hardly any.

As am sure your aware when driving down the freeway most Americans cannot afford a $75k+ car. But I believe nearly all of the 400k+ reservations for the Model 3 is from the US market.

[Ares]

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

REALIST123 said:

Ares said:

Largely the same. The supply is just greater.

It's the supply that is hindering there being more Teslas on UK roads more than anything.

The cost is what put me off. As well as the range but mainly the cost. It's hard to justify unless your absolutely committed to electric, IMO.

Given that Tesla always seem to have pre reg and nearly new for sale, I can't see how supply is limiting the numbers.

In fairness to Tesla, if you compare like for like size/performance, the cost is nothing like as bad as they naysayers will have you believe, even moreso when you factor in overall ownership costs. Lease costs are a lot higher, but when you factor in the tax position of that, you're not far from breaking even.

Try ordering a new one, the waiting time for some models is significant. Not as bad as it was a year ago (when they ramped up production), but still there

Could you enlarge on your breaking even calculation?

Maybe 12 months ago, I drew a comparison between a Tesla S with a middling spec and a quite highly specced 530D. The maths told me that you could buy the BMW, fuel it for 4 years and throw it away and still be £££ in compared to the cost of the S.

Maybe if you're not paying personally and can manage with the limited range my argument's less valid but less than 3% of cars in the U.K. are bought by Companies and not all of us commute.

Time will tell; hopefully when Tesla get some competition, which they no doubt will, we'll see some realism come into the pricing.

I was basing it on something a lot spicier than a 530d!

Roughly, the Tesla was 200-250/mth more. Half of that (at least) was saved in fuel the rest eaten up by the reduced taxation.

Why? In reality the S is no more useful than a cooking 5 series. You can't use the performance without decimating the range and the evidence shows that most owners wander along at a very sedate pace to maintain a half decent range. To be fair I tend to wander along in my 530, though even averaging 80/90 across Europe it will do well in excess of 400 miles on a tank.

Every review I've read, and my own experience, classifies the handling of the S as mediocre or similar; sound levels at motorway speeds are similar to a diesel 5 series. The build quality is not yet at 5 series levels, nor the quality of trim and interior. IMO from experience and research.

It's unreasonable, again IMO, to compare it with something 'a lot spicier' than a 530d. Give us an example. 0-60 times aren't the be all and end all.

Simply size and performance. I almost never driven more than 150 miles in one go, and if I do, I'll pass supercharger points. Range was a non-issue (as it is for most)

The P95D I was looking at was more akin to an S-Class size with AMG performance. I wasn't comparing it with that, I was comparing it with M3/Alfa QV/C63s.

It was the drive after the 'Tesla grin' inducing performance that put me off.

[Ares]

manracer said:

Ares said:

Disco Infiltrator said:

Spunagain said:

Odd, as How many left - model S shows well over 5000 model S's.
How many left - model X shows over 500 model X's.
And that can be up to 6 months out of date...

Edited by Spunagain on Tuesday 19th September 13:00

It's a figure I found on another site. I certainly don't see many.

Loads round here, more than their fair share of £100k cars represented.

Still nothing like as many as in the US though.

I've been in the US for the last 2 weeks. I've covered 1500 miles. I've send 4 model S and 0 model x.

And I'm not anti EV, I have a model 3 on order.
Certainly expected to see more. Maybe I will this next week in California.

I was in Chicago and the North Shore. 100s of them there.

[babatunde]

Heres Johnny said:

Everybody has a different opinion in what they value in a car. So everything in your opinion is true, because it’s in your opinion.

An electric drive train, instant torque, smooth as silk, is like no ICE. It’s wins the drag races because it can fuss free launch a 2 ton car, but that fuss free but powerful driving dynamic is available anywhere. It’s like having the best auto gearbox in the world that’s always in the right gear. If you enjoy stirring the cogs, either the skill in a well executed shift or just the drama of the bam in your back on a full bore change you’ll hate it. People don’t complain that a rolls Royce is lacking in driving drama.

Then the design. Very different inside, the minimalist aspect, the use of a great big touch screen. Some people like cottage kitchens with lots of wood and detail and pans hanging from the ceiling, others minimalist. It’s taste, but like most things, the more extreme you are the more you’re likely to polarise opinion. If you like the idea of what Tesla have done, you may well love it as they’ve done it more than anyone.

Then AutoPilot. It’s the devil on a petrolhead forum, and it’s not finished, far from it, but for anyone that does motorway driving, it’s a game changer. Nobody sane takes a thrill from driving any distance on a motorway. If you want to drive 300 mikes to Scotland you can either jump in most ICE, drive for 4 hours and arrive knackered or do it on AP, arrive in 5 hours feeling button fresh. It will come to other cars in time, and it’s nothing to do with electric, it’s to do with being prepared to innovate harder. BMWs game change is to wave your hand to change the volume when your thumb is probably already resting on a steering wheel mounted volume control.

And finally, people have personal reasons for brand loyalty. Gang feels his family were protected in a side impact smash in a Tesla and he’s doubtful other cars would have done the same. We’ll never know, but if you think a brand/Model/feature has saved the life or prevented serious injury if you orva loved one, you’re going to have an affinity

But all this points to one thing. It’s personal opinion. There is no definition of what makes the best car in the world, so it’s pointless then trying to say which cars fulfills the brief the best. It’s not fuelling time to do a journey most people never do, it’s not 0-60 times, it’s not driving pleasure, it not running costs or depreciation or lease costs or BIK or what the neighbours think.

If you don’t like EVs, just go elsewhere, you’re entitled to an opinion, but trying to tell EV owners they’re wrong based on nothing but your own personal priorities is the same as going into the Audi forum as a Merc fan and saying theyve got it all wrong.

Edited by Heres Johnny on Friday 22 September 04:18

Word....

[anonymous-user]

gangzoom said:

If you think a BMW 530d can compare to any EV interms of driving pleasure than you simply wouldnt get it, and we can agree to disagree.

I'm the same with watches, the last watch I had was a freebie, and I really cannot understand why people spend ££££ on things like Rolex etc .

That's fair enough, but I have to assume there's no objective answer. You must have some idea why you feel it's pleasurable?

I think the 530d is a very good way of covering long distances in comfort.

I think my SLK350 is very good for summer weekend, top down, trips out in the country.

I think my R400 is very good for short fun trips and track days.

The S could replace one of them in some ways but range and cost are major reasons why it won't just yet.

[anonymous-user]

Heres Johnny said:

Everybody has a different opinion in what they value in a car. So everything in your opinion is true, because it’s in your opinion.

An electric drive train, instant torque, smooth as silk, is like no ICE. It’s wins the drag races because it can fuss free launch a 2 ton car, but that fuss free but powerful driving dynamic is available anywhere. It’s like having the best auto gearbox in the world that’s always in the right gear. If you enjoy stirring the cogs, either the skill in a well executed shift or just the drama of the bam in your back on a full bore change you’ll hate it. People don’t complain that a rolls Royce is lacking in driving drama.

Then the design. Very different inside, the minimalist aspect, the use of a great big touch screen. Some people like cottage kitchens with lots of wood and detail and pans hanging from the ceiling, others minimalist. It’s taste, but like most things, the more extreme you are the more you’re likely to polarise opinion. If you like the idea of what Tesla have done, you may well love it as they’ve done it more than anyone.

Then AutoPilot. It’s the devil on a petrolhead forum, and it’s not finished, far from it, but for anyone that does motorway driving, it’s a game changer. Nobody sane takes a thrill from driving any distance on a motorway. If you want to drive 300 mikes to Scotland you can either jump in most ICE, drive for 4 hours and arrive knackered or do it on AP, arrive in 5 hours feeling button fresh. It will come to other cars in time, and it’s nothing to do with electric, it’s to do with being prepared to innovate harder. BMWs game change is to wave your hand to change the volume when your thumb is probably already resting on a steering wheel mounted volume control.

And finally, people have personal reasons for brand loyalty. Gang feels his family were protected in a side impact smash in a Tesla and he’s doubtful other cars would have done the same. We’ll never know, but if you think a brand/Model/feature has saved the life or prevented serious injury if you orva loved one, you’re going to have an affinity

But all this points to one thing. It’s personal opinion. There is no definition of what makes the best car in the world, so it’s pointless then trying to say which cars fulfills the brief the best. It’s not fuelling time to do a journey most people never do, it’s not 0-60 times, it’s not driving pleasure, it not running costs or depreciation or lease costs or BIK or what the neighbours think.

If you don’t like EVs, just go elsewhere, you’re entitled to an opinion, but trying to tell EV owners they’re wrong based on nothing but your own personal priorities is the same as going into the Audi forum as a Merc fan and saying theyve got it all wrong.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 22 September 04:18

You've got quite a few odd perceptions there, in all honesty, but that's fine by me.

Btw. I don't not like EVs. Well, I dislike most of the commuting cars, just as I dislike many small ICE cars, but not because they're electric

I've said in the past, I'd happily gave a TS, if it had the range that works for me and I could justify the cost, which at the moment just doesn't add up.

But, as you clearly only want to converse with people who agree with you (is there a word for that?) I'll leave you to it.

[Heres Johnny]

REALIST123 said:

You've got quite a few odd perceptions there, in all honesty, but that's fine by me.

Btw. I don't not like EVs. Well, I dislike most of the commuting cars, just as I dislike many small ICE cars, but not because they're electric

I've said in the past, I'd happily gave a TS, if it had the range that works for me and I could justify the cost, which at the moment just doesn't add up.

But, as you clearly only want to converse with people who agree with you (is there a word for that?) I'll leave you to it.

You drive an SLK,.. you clearly know nothing about cars. Let’s take that apart based on nothing but our non objective bias. How the hell do you take a family of 4 away in that? You’d need to drive there, then back to take the second passenger, then again to take the third.. that’s got to take longer than stopping to refuel an EV.

But at least an SLK has the same safe understeer feel, just a shame it doesn’t have the front wheel traction to pull it out if a corner.

Edited by Heres Johnny on Saturday 23 September 04:07