Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[jamoor]

Sambucket said:

It's testament to the quality of the cars that Tesla owners can be realistically open eyed about how terrible the service is, but still consider a Tesla the better choice.

And demonstrates what a terrible job everyone else is doing.

[DonkeyApple]

skwdenyer said:

jjwilde said:

Do you think Tesla will ever make their '1 series' which was in their plan from the start? Perhaps they will licence out their name to a lower cost manufacturer and supply the batteries & motors?

If Musk can make all that automation work, there's no real reason why he can't make a '1 series' in the USA. He was of course too ambitious with his automation plans for the Model 3, but not unreasonably-so - there was a lack of experience and time that contrived to prevent that from working.

At that rate of generational iteration at Tesla, I wouldn't bet against significant productivity gains (and unit cost reductions) first in China, then with the Model Y, and so on.

I think that’s the key. China should represent a step change in production costs downwards and the Y should also achieve the same over the 3. At present they are very inefficient at manufacturing. High wastage and a very slow production line.

[hyphen]

Sambucket said:

It's testament to the quality of the cars that Tesla owners can be realistically open eyed about how terrible the service is, but still consider a Tesla the better choice.

What you mean is, there is no alternative vehicle at the moment. And once there is, these Tesla owners won't return for a second purchase having already been turned off the brand!

[hyphen]

What is the Tesla 1 series?

Are we talking BMW 1 series equivalent sized car, or something else??

[Dave Hedgehog]

hyphen said:

What is the Tesla 1 series?

Are we talking BMW 1 series equivalent sized car, or something else??

I think people assume they are going to make a small Tesla, will be a long time coming as the Y is the next model along with the roadster then a pickup

[Witchfinder]

The Model 3 already *is* a small car.

[hyphen]

Witchfinder said:

The Model 3 already *is* a small car.

If you are a fat American, sure. Not if you're a skinny french chick

[anonymous-user]

hyphen said:

What you mean is, there is no alternative vehicle at the moment. And once there is, these Tesla owners won't return for a second purchase having already been turned off the brand!

I quote

"Tesla customers are more satisfied than those of any other auto brand for the third consecutive year, according to Consumer Reports, which placed Tesla first on its 2019 list of auto brands ranked by owner satisfaction."

Does seem to directly contradict what you say.

Also, A Prenzler Digital Media survey found that of 296 Tesla owners (mostly Model S - 93%, and 7% Model X), 92% of them would buy another Tesla.


Have you even driven a Tesla, let alone owned one?

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 18th August 21:44

[SWoll]

Witchfinder said:

The Model 3 already *is* a small car.

It's a 4 door saloon with seating for 5 and decent bootspace?

So what would you class the Zoe/i3 as, micro cars?

Sambucket said:

Have you even driven a Tesla, let alone owned one?

No chance, I imagine he comes out in a rash at the mere suggestion of it.

[Witchfinder]

SWoll said:

Witchfinder said:

The Model 3 already *is* a small car.

It's a 4 door saloon with seating for 5 and decent bootspace?

So what would you class the Zoe/i3 as, micro cars?

They fall into the "supermini" category, don't they? "Subcompact" for our colonial cousins.

[Witchfinder]

Sambucket said:

"Tesla customers are more satisfied than those of any other auto brand for the third consecutive year, according to Consumer Reports, which placed Tesla first on its 2019 list of auto brands ranked by owner satisfaction."

They're happy with the cars. Once everyone else is building electric cars that are just as good, price and service will be the differentiator.

[anonymous-user]

Witchfinder said:

They're happy with the cars. Once everyone else is building electric cars that are just as good, price and service will be the differentiator.

Of course. But the survey includes both premium and volume ICE brands too. So whilst there are plenty of caveats, it's not entirely impossible that Tesla customer satisfaction will stay relatively high when competition heats up.

[jjwilde]

Witchfinder said:

They're happy with the cars. Once everyone else is building electric cars that are just as good, price and service will be the differentiator.

Those other cars don't have a huge reliable & fast charging network.

[Tuna]

jjwilde said:

Those other cars don't have a huge reliable & fast charging network.

If a 'huge reliable and fast charging network' was the most important differentiator, then people would buy cars with the hugest, most reliable, fast charging network possible surely?

...

Like... petrol stations.

[SWoll]

Tuna said:

jjwilde said:

Those other cars don't have a huge reliable & fast charging network.

If a 'huge reliable and fast charging network' was the most important differentiator, then people would buy cars with the hugest, most reliable, fast charging network possible surely?

...

Like... petrol stations.

Not if you want an EV, which is the discussion that is being had I believe?

Witchfinder said:

SWoll said:

Witchfinder said:

The Model 3 already *is* a small car.

It's a 4 door saloon with seating for 5 and decent bootspace?

So what would you class the Zoe/i3 as, micro cars?

They fall into the "supermini" category, don't they? "Subcompact" for our colonial cousins.

If we are using recognised industry categories then the Model 3 is 'Compact Executive' as per the other examples given above. It's clearly not a small car either physically or by category.

Edited by SWoll on Monday 19th August 13:15

[DonkeyApple]

Tuna said:

jjwilde said:

Those other cars don't have a huge reliable & fast charging network.

If a 'huge reliable and fast charging network' was the most important differentiator, then people would buy cars with the hugest, most reliable, fast charging network possible surely?

...

Like... petrol stations.

Yup. The clever chaps buys a car that fits their requirements rather than buying one that doesn’t and then complaining that other people aren’t rushing to lose money so that their car works better.

Got a driveway, got spare money to throw around, only use a car for typical use then get an EV. Not got a driveway, or can’t afford to throw money about or do regular journeys that don’t suit an EV and then want others to throw money at making your life choice work for you and you’re a bit of a plank.

The smart EV punters do seem to be the Leaf type owners who are clearly actually buying an EV that fits their needs without then going begging.

It’ll be some time before EVs are the perfect fit for the travelling salesman or the bloke who can’t work out how to hire a car.

[SWoll]

DonkeyApple said:

Tuna said:

jjwilde said:

Those other cars don't have a huge reliable & fast charging network.

If a 'huge reliable and fast charging network' was the most important differentiator, then people would buy cars with the hugest, most reliable, fast charging network possible surely?

...

Like... petrol stations.

Yup. The clever chaps buys a car that fits their requirements rather than buying one that doesn’t and then complaining that other people aren’t rushing to lose money so that their car works better.

Got a driveway, got spare money to throw around, only use a car for typical use then get an EV. Not got a driveway, or can’t afford to throw money about or do regular journeys that don’t suit an EV and then want others to throw money at making your life choice work for you and you’re a bit of a plank.

The smart EV punters do seem to be the Leaf type owners who are clearly actually buying an EV that fits their needs without then going begging.

It’ll be some time before EVs are the perfect fit for the travelling salesman or the bloke who can’t work out how to hire a car.

The problem is when you actually look at requirements they are very rarely what people suggest they are. "I must have a car that has a 500 mile range" say many. Rarely any justification for it, often just a case of that is what they are used to and are looking for a reason not to change.

Have a look at the cost of competitors to the Tesla Model 3 with similar spec and performance and you'll find the purchase/lease costs are the same or more expensive for the ICE vehicle in most cases, particularly the Performance model. Then work out how much you'll save on fuel and maintenance costs over 3 years/30k miles and tell me who is throwing money around..

Your travelling salesman is the most extreme example you can come up with, and I guarantee many of them could still run an EV with some minor changes to how they plan their journeys. How many people out there are really doing more than 250 miles per day every day of the working week and have no ability to pull over for 30 minutes for a pee and a cup of coffee whilst they top up?

Edited by SWoll on Monday 19th August 13:29

[jamoor]

Tuna said:

If a 'huge reliable and fast charging network' was the most important differentiator, then people would buy cars with the hugest, most reliable, fast charging network possible surely?

...

Like... petrol stations.

I'm pretty sure I read in a news article that there are more charging stations that petrol stations in the UK?

[T-195]

Tuna said:

jjwilde said:

Those other cars don't have a huge reliable & fast charging network.

If a 'huge reliable and fast charging network' was the most important differentiator, then people would buy cars with the hugest, most reliable, fast charging network possible surely?

...

Like... petrol stations.

.

Yes. And you can't carry around a spare can of batteries in the boot for if you do ever run out.

[jamoor]

T-195 said:

Yes. And you can't carry around a spare can of batteries in the boot for if you do ever run out.

Petrol does seem a bit silly though.

You spend a fortune on the fuel and 60% of the energy is wasted. To the rational person it seems foolish.