iPace currently available for £400/month wow!!
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
drivel.
Rob. Grown ups talking. But just to yet again prove a point, you, a die hard EV fan and propaganda merchant still haven’t bought an EV but have bought a hybrid. You are the exact examplar of what I have just written. 
You’re so angry at me questioning your blatant lies that you have taken to following me around like an oddball and are amusingly oblivious to the fact that you single handedly prove the point. You drive a hybrid and you cannot afford to buy an EV that meets your needs. You are the truth despite, ironically, being unable to speak it.
RobDickinson said:
its not what you are saying its how you are saying it , its just incoherent.
Of course dear. I suspect you struggle to comprehend many, many things. Hence why you drive a hybrid and lie endlessly about it being an EV. And why you repeatedly post inane propaganda as if it is actual fact. Or maybe you’re just a silly, sad little man.
Either way, please stop following me about like an oddball and stop upsetting a good thread about an interesting and desirable new car.
At the risk of getting trampled on, can I suggest drawing a line under your spat?
We all know DA can sometimes be a little acerbic in his writing style, but he does have an interesting perspective, and we know RD enthusiastically wants the EV naysayers to be proved wrong, which is a feeling shared by many.
We're a fairly small group on this sub-group so would be a shame for anyone to feel pushed out due to it getting too combative
We all know DA can sometimes be a little acerbic in his writing style, but he does have an interesting perspective, and we know RD enthusiastically wants the EV naysayers to be proved wrong, which is a feeling shared by many.
We're a fairly small group on this sub-group so would be a shame for anyone to feel pushed out due to it getting too combative
EddieSteadyGo said:
At the risk of getting trampled on, can I suggest drawing a line under your spat?
We all know DA can sometimes be a little acerbic in his writing style, but he does have an interesting perspective, and we know RD enthusiastically wants the EV naysayers to be proved wrong, which is a feeling shared by many.
We're a fairly small group on this sub-group so would be a shame for anyone to feel pushed out due to it getting too combative
Well said and seconded. My Lexus hybrid, the precursor to my Tesla, reduced my petrol consumption by 50%. If that's a stepping stone for most people, which seems entirely logical and progressive then that's great. We all know DA can sometimes be a little acerbic in his writing style, but he does have an interesting perspective, and we know RD enthusiastically wants the EV naysayers to be proved wrong, which is a feeling shared by many.
We're a fairly small group on this sub-group so would be a shame for anyone to feel pushed out due to it getting too combative
My more immediate worry is new I Pace owners who believe the car can replace their ICE cars for long journeys are going to be very disappointed and give the anti EV brigade more ammunition. I did a ton of research on real world range before taking the plunge and don't mind admitting I under estimated the impact of cold and rain on range - 20%-25% . Luckily it doesn't really matter as the Supercharger network is excellent - that very definitely cannot be said of the public charging network.
EVs are going to be much harder to run as a single family family vehicle but I suspect that the majority of buyers for the ipace will have easy access to other cars.
The car industry also has a huge amount of data that has been collected by their cars on how their clients use them. Another benefit of forcing consumers to bring the vehicle back to base. The industry is all aiming for that 200-300 mile range which currently seems to be the user/battery cost sweet spot at the premium end.
If I look at my own lifestyle, how often will I complete a 200 mile journey where there is not a charging point at the end? I can’t really think of a time. I took the family to Cornwall earlier in the year, the hotel had charge points, I drove 120 miles this week to a shoot and the hotel I arrived at had charge points. I could drive the 150 mile round trip into central London at the weekend without needing a charger and during the week it would easily cater for and be much better than ICE for all the short household duties.
With regards to general household duties a range of barely 100 Miles is all that is needed.
I think that where people have the slightest hassle with regards to charging or pricing they aren’t going to sanely be choosing the EV. I suspect the bulk of ipaces will be heading to suburban, multi car households and that very little extra thought or adjustments will be needed for them to work very well in that environment.
If we did a show of hands on this thread I suspect that we would find very few people about to take deliberybof an ipace who had no means to charge it domestically, regularly drove daily distances that came close to the range capabilities, had a family but only one car. I would wager the most common consumer would be someone with the means to charge domestically, reckoned on very rarely needing to go hunting for a third party charger and if a family man didn’t have another car.
The car industry also has a huge amount of data that has been collected by their cars on how their clients use them. Another benefit of forcing consumers to bring the vehicle back to base. The industry is all aiming for that 200-300 mile range which currently seems to be the user/battery cost sweet spot at the premium end.
If I look at my own lifestyle, how often will I complete a 200 mile journey where there is not a charging point at the end? I can’t really think of a time. I took the family to Cornwall earlier in the year, the hotel had charge points, I drove 120 miles this week to a shoot and the hotel I arrived at had charge points. I could drive the 150 mile round trip into central London at the weekend without needing a charger and during the week it would easily cater for and be much better than ICE for all the short household duties.
With regards to general household duties a range of barely 100 Miles is all that is needed.
I think that where people have the slightest hassle with regards to charging or pricing they aren’t going to sanely be choosing the EV. I suspect the bulk of ipaces will be heading to suburban, multi car households and that very little extra thought or adjustments will be needed for them to work very well in that environment.
If we did a show of hands on this thread I suspect that we would find very few people about to take deliberybof an ipace who had no means to charge it domestically, regularly drove daily distances that came close to the range capabilities, had a family but only one car. I would wager the most common consumer would be someone with the means to charge domestically, reckoned on very rarely needing to go hunting for a third party charger and if a family man didn’t have another car.
jjwilde said:
How are they only aimed at the rich? My sister, a barber, pays £200/month for her top end Leaf30 Tekna. She gets free parking and charging and free tax.
People on here have got the iPace (!) for £400/month.
How many miles is your sister driving? The Leaf30 Tekna has a list of over £27k, after grants; a Note starts at £10k. A Fiesta £15kPeople on here have got the iPace (!) for £400/month.
£400 a month for an iPace gets you 5000 miles a year. £1 a mile just to lease the car. The list starts at over £60k.
I’m aware if all the ‘buts’ but there’s no getting away from the fact that EVs are very pricy at the moment and that needs to change to get true volume sales.
DonkeyApple said:
Only a tiny number can buy an EV without significant changes to their lifestyle.
We only need to live ok at the brands mainly promoting pure EV to see that it has morphed into a premium product for the wealthy. You can’t sell product to people who haven’t any money.
Again, I disagree. People *think* it requires big changes to lifestyle and habits, but the reality is different.We only need to live ok at the brands mainly promoting pure EV to see that it has morphed into a premium product for the wealthy. You can’t sell product to people who haven’t any money.
The mainstream manufacturers are dragging their heels. They *want* a hybrid future to preserve their investment in ICE, but as the success of the Model 3 proves, there is demand for pure EVs that far outstrips the appetite for premium ICE cars.
The price isn't a barrier either. The Kona, Leaf, Zoe and suchlike are cheap enough. Kona production seems to be throttled artificially, either on purpose, or by battery supply. There's a 12 month lead time of you want one.
Even at the top end of the price range, the I-Pace is sold out until next year.
The motor manufacturers, not the car buying public, are the problem. They're playing a dangerous game when Apple, Nio, Byton, Google, Dyson and others are developing product.
REALIST123 said:
How many miles is your sister driving? The Leaf30 Tekna has a list of over £27k, after grants; a Note starts at £10k. A Fiesta £15k
She gets 8000miles/year for that. It has worked out far cheaper than running a normal similar sized car. Parking alone in the city centre is almost £160/month for an ICE permit.She also has no issues doing a run to Leeds/Whitby in it due to the pretty decent charging network we have up here.
Interestingly one of the big sales points for her was the ability to warm the car up before she got in it.
The Kona is about £30k for a small crossover. I’m not sure thatbis cheap in the wider market.
I agree that many more people could adapt to EVs if they needed to and humans as a collective are very good at adapting. But what I am saying is that the legislation does not primarily strip out EVs over hybrids when it comes to the general phasing out of pure ICE and that where we are right now, hybrids are the superior alternative with almost no barriers for the current consumer.
We don’t yet know the true success of the Tesla 3 as we remain in that period where production is fulfilling historic orders and data on new orders has not been published. The new order data that has been published is from other manufacturers and the data doesn’t show a meteoric growth rate. I think the next couple of years are of huge interest and will yield genuine clarity on how the EV is and will likely be moving forward.
But multinationals have to work on key time horizons and develop products accordingly. Even if they wanted to switch to pure EV it would be years before there are viable supply lines of key parts to reliably build 30m vehicles a year, let alone the number of consumers able to either pay the enormous price for suitable range or adapt their lifestyle quickly enough to live with more affordable shorter range products. While this happens it is very clear that the bridge is to be hybrids and that every major manufacture is delivering or working on delivering hybrids so as to maintain sales volumes.
The EV Revolution, like most revolutions will take much longer to reach its tipping point than revolutionaries every expect unless something appears out of the blue that suddenly means you can have a power source that is small, light and dirt cheap and then I suspect you will see the major manufacturers issuing huge bonds and switching their production lines overnight as the source of greatest profits will have dynamically and critically changed.
What I hope we see happen at Jaguar is sufficient initial and then second sales of the ipace to give credence to their recently announced thinking of going all electric and joining Tesla in this market place as a pure EV brand. I really think that could work for Jaguar as they are small enough and premium enough to make the still very small EV consumer demand work for them as Tesla possibly can. But right now Jaguar will be wanting to know just how many new orders a month are arriving at Tesla as that’s such a vital bit of information for the industry as a whole and will probably be what defines how the next few years evolve.
I agree that many more people could adapt to EVs if they needed to and humans as a collective are very good at adapting. But what I am saying is that the legislation does not primarily strip out EVs over hybrids when it comes to the general phasing out of pure ICE and that where we are right now, hybrids are the superior alternative with almost no barriers for the current consumer.
We don’t yet know the true success of the Tesla 3 as we remain in that period where production is fulfilling historic orders and data on new orders has not been published. The new order data that has been published is from other manufacturers and the data doesn’t show a meteoric growth rate. I think the next couple of years are of huge interest and will yield genuine clarity on how the EV is and will likely be moving forward.
But multinationals have to work on key time horizons and develop products accordingly. Even if they wanted to switch to pure EV it would be years before there are viable supply lines of key parts to reliably build 30m vehicles a year, let alone the number of consumers able to either pay the enormous price for suitable range or adapt their lifestyle quickly enough to live with more affordable shorter range products. While this happens it is very clear that the bridge is to be hybrids and that every major manufacture is delivering or working on delivering hybrids so as to maintain sales volumes.
The EV Revolution, like most revolutions will take much longer to reach its tipping point than revolutionaries every expect unless something appears out of the blue that suddenly means you can have a power source that is small, light and dirt cheap and then I suspect you will see the major manufacturers issuing huge bonds and switching their production lines overnight as the source of greatest profits will have dynamically and critically changed.
What I hope we see happen at Jaguar is sufficient initial and then second sales of the ipace to give credence to their recently announced thinking of going all electric and joining Tesla in this market place as a pure EV brand. I really think that could work for Jaguar as they are small enough and premium enough to make the still very small EV consumer demand work for them as Tesla possibly can. But right now Jaguar will be wanting to know just how many new orders a month are arriving at Tesla as that’s such a vital bit of information for the industry as a whole and will probably be what defines how the next few years evolve.
Witchfinder said:
DonkeyApple said:
Only a tiny number can buy an EV without significant changes to their lifestyle.
We only need to live ok at the brands mainly promoting pure EV to see that it has morphed into a premium product for the wealthy. You can’t sell product to people who haven’t any money.
Again, I disagree. People *think* it requires big changes to lifestyle and habits, but the reality is different.We only need to live ok at the brands mainly promoting pure EV to see that it has morphed into a premium product for the wealthy. You can’t sell product to people who haven’t any money.
The mainstream manufacturers are dragging their heels. They *want* a hybrid future to preserve their investment in ICE, but as the success of the Model 3 proves, there is demand for pure EVs that far outstrips the appetite for premium ICE cars.
The price isn't a barrier either. The Kona, Leaf, Zoe and suchlike are cheap enough. Kona production seems to be throttled artificially, either on purpose, or by battery supply. There's a 12 month lead time of you want one.
Even at the top end of the price range, the I-Pace is sold out until next year.
The motor manufacturers, not the car buying public, are the problem. They're playing a dangerous game when Apple, Nio, Byton, Google, Dyson and others are developing product.
ninepoint2 said:
DJP31 said:
It’s a well built car and apparently nice to drive but I am worried the real life experience doesn’t match expectations.
I suspect that's true of most EVs at the moment TBFThe only reason I'm leasing my Volvo is that I missed out on this Jag deal.
I thought this article relating to hybrids was interesting. Someone has done some research and concluded lots of people buy hybrids and never charge them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46152853
It doesn't really matter what the actual facts are, the narrative of government subsidies being wasted is pretty toxic, particularly for a government wanting to be seen to be a good custodian of public money.
The DfT spokesman when asked for a response said pretty much the only thing he could say....
"The government believed plug-in hybrids "bring significant environmental benefits", but would "now focus its support on zero emission models like pure electric and hydrogen fuel cell cars".
If we see more stories like this in the media I suspect it will help drive government policy against hybrids.
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