iPace currently available for £400/month wow!!
Discussion
Begall said:
If you’re a company car driver with a PHEV and a private fuel card then there’s actually a disincentive to charge the thing - as you already pay tax for the unlimited fuel and nobody is going to reimburse you for charging it.
Yes, I agree with that point.I guess I am saying, it doesn't really matter whether people are actually charging their hybrids or not, what the true proportions are, or what the reasons are.
If you were the minister responsible, how would you defend the claim that subsidies to hybrids are wasteful and unproductive in light of this "research".
As a different example, we hear a lot about "zero hour contracts" being a scourge, whereas the reality is more nuanced. But the words nuance and national politics don't go together.
Hence why in relation to hybrids, I think the expedient answer is the one the DfT gave.
AstonZagato said:
The purchase of an EV required virtually no change to our lifestyle or habits.
Nor would it require any change for me. But why do you think that is? 
And do you think this is the norm?Economics, circumstance, employment, lifestyle etc all play a role in determining whether an EV can fit into your requirements without making any changes. None of these factors play a role with hybrid. If someone can afford a new ICE, 100% of that group can buy a hybrid, only a small percentage can buy an EV. And rather unsurprisingly, that smaller percentage is very well defined by wealth.
There is very little point in either you or I stating that we can run EVs without any change because it doesn’t prove anything. It suggests that EVs become an easier choose the more wealth that you have but as a statement it doesn’t really prove that the majority of current car owners could drop £50-100k on a car, install a driveway, buy and run other cars etc.
I do suspect that the majority of ipaces will be going to suburban, middle income driveways. We will get some in London but they won’t be parking up in Thamesmead overnight but in the usual streets of highend property.
Witchfinder said:
ninepoint2 said:
DJP31 said:
It’s a well built car and apparently nice to drive but I am worried the real life experience doesn’t match expectations.
I suspect that's true of most EVs at the moment TBFThe only reason I'm leasing my Volvo is that I missed out on this Jag deal.
I know, I've done 25k in my Model S since March last year, so no worries here. The first thing the 'old timers' said was whatever mileage you normally tell your Insurers you do, double it. Good advice, I normally do about 10k a year.My worry, based on my experience of 2 Jag dealers and various anecdotal reports from others is that the real world range and ease of distance refuelling have been over stated greatly. Donkey Apple may well be right that most of these cars will be bought by families where there is a second car that can be pressed in service for the longer journeys, but that remains to be seen. Whether cynically Jag know this and will redirect purchasers to their ICE cars, blaming the rubbish public high speed charging network I don't know.
What would be good is if the Government grasped the nettle firmly and got behind a nationwide public high speed charging network. It's happened in Scotland, so why not here.
Scotland has 4 roads, 7 EVs and a bucket load of free money to piss away on a whim. 
The tactic here appears to be to push manufacturers into producing EVs and to steer them into a position where they need to finance the national charging network rather than the taxpayer.
At the moment, private enterprises are installing chargers as a means to attract higher net worth consumers to their shops, soon the big retailers will add charging bays alongside their parent and child bays so as to attract consumers. The likes of BMW, Jag, Merc will have no choice but to install charging where there are Tesla chargers so as to compete. And just like city centre driveway owners can currently rent out their parking spaces to commuters so they can add charging to their little enterprise. Sell power at a huge premium in daylight, buy it for a discount at night etc.
We do actually have enormous flexibility when it comes to a national charging network and the sooner it starts building properly the better but I do not for one moment believe that a penny of taxpayer money or State control should be applied. The car industry is already hugely subsidised by the tax payer and we should let competition and market forces, driven and directed by legislation where required, build the network.
The tactic here appears to be to push manufacturers into producing EVs and to steer them into a position where they need to finance the national charging network rather than the taxpayer.
At the moment, private enterprises are installing chargers as a means to attract higher net worth consumers to their shops, soon the big retailers will add charging bays alongside their parent and child bays so as to attract consumers. The likes of BMW, Jag, Merc will have no choice but to install charging where there are Tesla chargers so as to compete. And just like city centre driveway owners can currently rent out their parking spaces to commuters so they can add charging to their little enterprise. Sell power at a huge premium in daylight, buy it for a discount at night etc.
We do actually have enormous flexibility when it comes to a national charging network and the sooner it starts building properly the better but I do not for one moment believe that a penny of taxpayer money or State control should be applied. The car industry is already hugely subsidised by the tax payer and we should let competition and market forces, driven and directed by legislation where required, build the network.
DonkeyApple said:
Nor would it require any change for me. But why do you think that is? And do you think this is the norm?
For anyone with a private drive or garage, it requires no change in lifestyle or habits. With the Kona at £35k and 200+mile range, it is within the grasp of any middle class family in the suburbs. And do you think this is the norm?AstonZagato said:
For anyone with a private drive or garage, it requires no change in lifestyle or habits. With the Kona at £35k and 200+mile range, it is within the grasp of any middle class family in the suburbs.
If anything, it would be more convenient for those people. If you're charging from home regularly, you'd almost never have to charge elsewhere. Think of all those people who have to set off 20 minutes early for work, or make a special trip once a week to fill their tank.AstonZagato said:
For anyone with a private drive or garage, it requires no change in lifestyle or habits. With the Kona at £35k and 200+mile range, it is within the grasp of any middle class family in the suburbs.
Agree. Assuming typical sort of commute and arguably an additional car. The Kona will be interesting to watch as it looks a nice car but is essentially £35k for a small crossover, a segment and brand more typically associated with spending much less money. The ipace looks to be one of the best offerings at present but the lease deal looked enticing on the surface but being so short and restricted to essentially classic car mileage loses any interest quite swiftly but also I have no need of another car and I imagine it will be a a fair few more years before the 9 year old family workhorse needs taking out and shooting.
DonkeyApple said:
Agree. Assuming typical sort of commute and arguably an additional car. The Kona will be interesting to watch as it looks a nice car but is essentially £35k for a small crossover, a segment and brand more typically associated with spending much less money.
Currently £30k for the 65kWh version, £32.5k if you want the top spec. Also factor in anywhere between £1000 and £1500 quid a year saving on maintenance and fuel!DonkeyApple said:
Witchfinder said:
Currently £30k for the 65kWh version, £32.5k if you want the top spec. Also factor in anywhere between £1000 and £1500 quid a year saving on maintenance and fuel!
Yup. It just doesn’t add up for most people. EddieSteadyGo said:
But at the same time, most people don't buy new cars. In 3-4 years the same car will cost circa £10k - £12k which, taking into account the fuel savings, might become attractive for many more people.
Absolutely but for that to be a significant factor they obviously need to sell a lot of new ones initially. What will be interesting to see is if the much bigger range over the i3 leads to bigger sales. An EV is still an expensive and non essential purchase and those are both very big hurdles to volume. DonkeyApple said:
An EV is still an expensive and non essential purchase and those are both very big hurdles to volume.
Yeah reducing climate change is so none essential.Luckily even Americans are seeing the sense of ev's and buying a Teslas as fast as they can make them. A very large percentage of people are choosing to spend a lot more than normal to get one.
jjwilde said:
I don't know why I'm trying this again but very few people are buying these cars, they are leasing them and you can get EVs from £200/month. That works for a lot of people, huge savings.
So long as you’re in that particular sweet spot of covering enough miles in a week and owning sufficient land to self charge etc. I certainly wouldn’t buy an EV until the market is much more developed and stable and until then leasing to hedge out risk seems to be the most sensible way forward. If you try and apply that to the ipace £400 lease I don’t think it works as you’re mileage is so heavily restricted. It’s too much of a headline numbers trick in reality but if you want to throw some cash at something new and different it struck me as a cracking opportunity.
DonkeyApple said:
So long as you’re in that particular sweet spot of covering enough miles in a week and owning sufficient land to self charge etc. I certainly wouldn’t buy an EV until the market is much more developed and stable and until then leasing to hedge out risk seems to be the most sensible way forward.
If you try and apply that to the ipace £400 lease I don’t think it works as you’re mileage is so heavily restricted. It’s too much of a headline numbers trick in reality but if you want to throw some cash at something new and different it struck me as a cracking opportunity.
Looks like the base ipace is closer to £900pm inc vat!If you try and apply that to the ipace £400 lease I don’t think it works as you’re mileage is so heavily restricted. It’s too much of a headline numbers trick in reality but if you want to throw some cash at something new and different it struck me as a cracking opportunity.
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