They're here.........genuine Tesla competitors

[audi321]

So as a Tesla Model S owner, I've been wondering when the competition will catch up.

Zoe/Leaf/i3/etc - all good attempts, but not the range or tech of a Tesla.

Here comes (in my opinion) the first car which is going to genuinely compete with Tesla (certainly with the Model 3 market).

https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric

A good review here, from an avid Tesla fan who admits he would buy this next over his Tesla at the end - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe2PGCCODu0&fe...

Priced similarly to the Model 3 (if not cheaper when the M3 actually comes out). Well equipped with their version of autopilot and TACC without paying Tesla £5k for it!

I hate to say it...........but Tesla's days are numbered unless they really get cracking on the M3 deliveries quickly.

[Plug Life]

It's a compact SUV or cross-over or whatever so more like an I Pace rival. The range is good but the 50kW max charging is not.

[modeller]

The Kona will charge > 50kW on a suitable charger. It's been measured at almost 200A on a CCS.

Tesla is making more M 3's in a month than Hyundai (Kona) does annually ... so a while yet before Tesla is challenged. Battery supply constraints.

[Welshbeef]

I glanced at an Autocar front cover today and it had BMWs answer to Tesla model S fight is in or something along those lines.



All this means to me an ICE car driver is there will be more chalice used for EVs and new choice too which will pull IcE owners to buy EVs leaving more Dino juice for exquisite cars and the CO2 impact is like half a fart of a large cow herd so fk all to climate change.

Imagine a world where all mundane a to b cars are EV and the gifts go green on energy production in so doing it means the special petrol cars can keep going and going

[Plug Life]

modeller said:

The Kona will charge > 50kW on a suitable charger. It's been measured at almost 200A on a CCS.

Then they are plonkers, their website doesn't mention anything over 50kW rapid charging.

[croyde]

Is it me? As I think Teslas look cheap. I know they are certainly not but if I was spending £100k plus on a car, I'd want it to look better than a cheap Chinese copy of something sporty.

Sorry but it's all a bit Emperors new clothes isn't it. No one dare speak out against Tesla but I think they look awful and badly built.

For £15k maybe but Porsche Turbo money, they can fek off. Rather have a Leaf.

[audi321]

croyde said:

Is it me? As I think Teslas look cheap. I know they are certainly not but if I was spending £100k plus on a car, I'd want it to look better than a cheap Chinese copy of something sporty.

Sorry but it's all a bit Emperors new clothes isn't it. No one dare speak out against Tesla but I think they look awful and badly built.

For £15k maybe but Porsche Turbo money, they can fek off. Rather have a Leaf.

The Model 3 is £30k (ish) and fwiw my Tesla is by far the best car I've ever owned, and I've had some nice cars in my time - including a Porsche turbo!

Edited by audi321 on Monday 22 October 21:17

[RobDickinson]

I think simple sleek design can look cheap until you experience it.

The kona is a decent motor though for 64kwh it does really well, it's small though inside and only 2wd. Biggest problem is Hyundai competing with almost everyone else for LG batteries.

[audi321]

RobDickinson said:

The kona is a decent motor

I see what you did there

[RobDickinson]

2020 will be interesting, short range model 3, 60kwh leaf, kona, Niro, vw id etc.

Looks like Hyundai are mostly not selling the kona in USA though, just a few in some states.

[Smiljan]

Unfortunately you can only buy the Kona Electric in the UK via their Click to Buy website and they've now taken it off the Click to Buy site.

Last time I looked UK waiting times were 40 weeks for the larger battery. Seems it's sold so well that they can build them quick enough. It's a very small car though, bit bigger than a Zoe and a fair bit smaller than a Leaf.

[SCEtoAUX]

Just can't be having these vast sums on an EV. Cast aside your average echo-loon and for most the appeal is the saving on petrol costs.

Anyone who can afford £60k plus on a car surely gives not one jot about fuel costs. If you do, buy a £45k car and have £15k of free fuel.

Things will change of course, but right here, right now, the smart money is surely on the used EV for around £8-9k as a second/short range car with the fuel cost savings effectively paying for the thing.

[RobDickinson]

Echo loon?

The key here is to make ev's desirable and the tco relevant vs ice and the environment benefits just follow.

That needs volume production.

[cj2013]

SCEtoAUX said:

Just can't be having these vast sums on an EV. Cast aside your average echo-loon and for most the appeal is the saving on petrol costs.

Anyone who can afford £60k plus on a car surely gives not one jot about fuel costs. If you do, buy a £45k car and have £15k of free fuel.

Things will change of course, but right here, right now, the smart money is surely on the used EV for around £8-9k as a second/short range car with the fuel cost savings effectively paying for the thing.

That's all well and good, but you're effectively ignoring the VED, BIK/Company Car Tax, repairs & maintenance, and all round driving experience.

[gangzoom]

audi321 said:

Priced similarly to the Model 3 (if not cheaper when the M3 actually comes out). Well equipped with their version of autopilot and TACC without paying Tesla £5k for it!

What about comparing the Kona to the iPace?

£30k versus £60k, one has a range of 300 miles and one 200 miles. Both have mobile eye powered Autopilot tech. Both 5 seaters. Both CCS. Igoring the badge you have to be nuts to buy the iPace.

Same for the up and coming £70k Audi and Merc EV. Why would you buy one over the Kona, up and coming 60kWh Leaf for half the price?

My old 24kWh Leaf, inlaws Zoe, are as nice to drive in town as our current Tesla. Unlike a 3 cylinder Fiesta versus 6 cylinder BMW, the EV drivetrain is a great leveller.

Sadly though people are badge snobs and my wife refuse to even walk into a Hyundai showroom let alone drive one instead of her current Lexus, and equally I rather keep our Tesla than swap it for a Hyundai.

The 'premium' brands are really going have to work hard to justify their higher prices, though VAG seems to have no problems selling people a Skoda fot Audi money by just changing the badge, so in reality its no different now.

I recon the most 'advanced' EV manfacture right now is Hyundai, price, range, tech, manfacture, when combined they are firmly number one, Tesla isnt far behind, and than there is a massive gap back to everyone else.....

Forget overpriced EVs from everyone else (Tesla/Jag/Audi/Merc) Hyundai is the brand to buy if you actually want a good car and not just the badge. Who would have thought even TopGear would be singing the praises of Hyundai been a market leader is anything let alone EVs a few years ago!!!

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/opinion-...

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 23 October 06:54

[Evanivitch]

SCEtoAUX said:

Just can't be having these vast sums on an EV. Cast aside your average echo-loon and for most the appeal is the saving on petrol costs.

Have you driven an EV?

For most people, who aren't motoring enthusiasts, an EV is a much better prospect for driving experience. Smooth, silent and simple to drive. Especially if you're using it as a second car or for regular local driving (which is what the vast majority of people do).

[RobDickinson]

Vast sums of money? There's an ev freight train coming to crush ice cars to dust.

As soon as battery production scales up.

Kona and Niro are around £30k that's half something similar just a couple years ago.

[kambites]

Of all the existing mainstream manufacturers, Hyundai-Kia seem to be the one putting most effort into their EVs. Given how much of the world's Li-Ion battery production is Korean, I think they're pose a serious risk to the European and Japanese manufacturers.

[anonymous-user]

cj2013 said:

SCEtoAUX said:

Just can't be having these vast sums on an EV. Cast aside your average echo-loon and for most the appeal is the saving on petrol costs.

Anyone who can afford £60k plus on a car surely gives not one jot about fuel costs. If you do, buy a £45k car and have £15k of free fuel.

Things will change of course, but right here, right now, the smart money is surely on the used EV for around £8-9k as a second/short range car with the fuel cost savings effectively paying for the thing.

That's all well and good, but you're effectively ignoring the VED, BIK/Company Car Tax, repairs & maintenance, and all round driving experience.

VED is £140 a year, BIK is relevant to a tiny number of vehicles and if EVs are maintained according to manufacturer's schedules they're often more expensive than ICE, certainly over the first 4/5 years.

As for the driving experience, surely that's quite subjective?

Rob's right. Real volume is needed to get costs down. Everything else will follow.

[DonkeyApple]

Welshbeef said:

I glanced at an Autocar front cover today and it had BMWs answer to Tesla model S fight is in or something along those lines.

All this means to me an ICE car driver is there will be more chalice used for EVs and new choice too which will pull IcE owners to buy EVs leaving more Dino juice for exquisite cars and the CO2 impact is like half a fart of a large cow herd so fk all to climate change.

Imagine a world where all mundane a to b cars are EV and the gifts go green on energy production in so doing it means the special petrol cars can keep going and going

In reality, what we are seeing is the cultural shift between the old and the young being played out in the car manufacturing marketing dept.

Previously you sold 28m very boring, utility transport boxes around the world every year by building a few versions with big, loud engines that made normal consumers want to be associated with your brand over someone else’s. Today, this doesn’t work across the board. It doesn’t resonate with younger consumers. But the EV does.

The EV has become the new marketing departments model of choice for slapping the brand on the front cover of automotive wk mags.

It’ll be interesting how the evolution goes forward from here, what the dead ends are and what will become the new normal.