They're here.........genuine Tesla competitors
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
In reality, what we are seeing is the cultural shift between the old and the young being played out in the car manufacturing marketing dept.
Previously you sold 28m very boring, utility transport boxes around the world every year by building a few versions with big, loud engines that made normal consumers want to be associated with your brand over someone else’s. Today, this doesn’t work across the board. It doesn’t resonate with younger consumers. But the EV does.
The EV has become the new marketing departments model of choice for slapping the brand on the front cover of automotive wk mags.
It’ll be interesting how the evolution goes forward from here, what the dead ends are and what will become the new normal.
You may well be right but it does look as if the future will be simply for faceless ‘utility transport’ and sales will be more on price and running costs more than any image. I can well see how many of today’s youngsters won’t bother to learn to drive with little aspirational reason to do so. Previously you sold 28m very boring, utility transport boxes around the world every year by building a few versions with big, loud engines that made normal consumers want to be associated with your brand over someone else’s. Today, this doesn’t work across the board. It doesn’t resonate with younger consumers. But the EV does.
The EV has become the new marketing departments model of choice for slapping the brand on the front cover of automotive wk mags.
It’ll be interesting how the evolution goes forward from here, what the dead ends are and what will become the new normal.
With overpopulation and congestion ‘driving’ Is becoming less and less of an attraction and it’s more and more about just getting from A to B.
Agree with this. Urban areas are undergoing change. The idea of town centres as work and retail places is changing. More flats are going to be needed in town centres.
Proximity to public transport is going to become vitally important for people I think, as centres grind to a halt. I think this is going to change the way we pay for and use cars.
Proximity to public transport is going to become vitally important for people I think, as centres grind to a halt. I think this is going to change the way we pay for and use cars.
Most people are not paying these vast sums of money though.
Time it right and the ipace is £400 a month and the Leaf £200 a month on hired purchase (or whatever they are calling it).
At those prices when you consider the benefits they are a steal. Driving an EV just feels like driving a car from the future, so nice and relaxing to drive (plus preheat is a wonderful thing), when you go back to a normal car they just feel clunky and old.
My old neighbour, a car enthusiast and amateur mechanic/taxi driver used to laugh at my Leaf until he tried driving it. There was a huge hill where I used to live and he though he would make a joke out of the car by driving up the hill and he went very silent when it flew up that hill so fast it spun the wheels when he put his foot down. He wants a EV now as his next taxi.
Time it right and the ipace is £400 a month and the Leaf £200 a month on hired purchase (or whatever they are calling it).
At those prices when you consider the benefits they are a steal. Driving an EV just feels like driving a car from the future, so nice and relaxing to drive (plus preheat is a wonderful thing), when you go back to a normal car they just feel clunky and old.
My old neighbour, a car enthusiast and amateur mechanic/taxi driver used to laugh at my Leaf until he tried driving it. There was a huge hill where I used to live and he though he would make a joke out of the car by driving up the hill and he went very silent when it flew up that hill so fast it spun the wheels when he put his foot down. He wants a EV now as his next taxi.
Edited by jjwilde on Tuesday 23 October 13:12
REALIST123 said:
VED is £140 a year, BIK is relevant to a tiny number of vehicles and if EVs are maintained according to manufacturer's schedules they're often more expensive than ICE, certainly over the first 4/5 years.
As for the driving experience, surely that's quite subjective?
Rob's right. Real volume is needed to get costs down. Everything else will follow.
If the car is zero emissions then the VED is still £zero. Basically, the savings are otherwise more significant than "just fuel", which is the opposite of the point being made. As for the driving experience, surely that's quite subjective?
Rob's right. Real volume is needed to get costs down. Everything else will follow.
REALIST123 said:
VED is £140 a year, BIK is relevant to a tiny number of vehicles and if
EVs are maintained according to manufacturer's schedules they're often more expensive than ICE, certainly over the first 4/5 years.
As for the driving experience, surely that's quite subjective?
Rob's right. Real volume is needed to get costs down. Everything else will follow.
Tell me about it, after 75000 miles I've had to buy 3 pollen filters, 4 tyres and a tin of brake fluidEVs are maintained according to manufacturer's schedules they're often more expensive than ICE, certainly over the first 4/5 years.
As for the driving experience, surely that's quite subjective?
Rob's right. Real volume is needed to get costs down. Everything else will follow.
Worst still I'll need to buy another pollen filter and tin of brake fluid next month..
Smiljan said:
Unfortunately you can only buy the Kona Electric in the UK via their Click to Buy website and they've now taken it off the Click to Buy site.
Last time I looked UK waiting times were 40 weeks for the larger battery. Seems it's sold so well that they can build them quick enough. It's a very small car though, bit bigger than a Zoe and a fair bit smaller than a Leaf.
Its back on click to buy quoting 42 weeksLast time I looked UK waiting times were 40 weeks for the larger battery. Seems it's sold so well that they can build them quick enough. It's a very small car though, bit bigger than a Zoe and a fair bit smaller than a Leaf.
I parked my Leaf next to a Kona and its almost as long, from photos and video I thought it would be quite a bit smaller. Not sure I could live with tower bridge between the front seats to be honest.
Battery wise for the money the pricing is pretty sharp, I bet it made a few folks spill their coffee.
audi321 said:
The Model 3 is £30k (ish) and fwiw my Tesla is by far the best car I've ever owned, and I've had some nice cars in my time - including a Porsche turbo!
Has anyone on the planet actually bought one for £30k yet? I thought you could still only get the more expensive variants all are getting bought for more like £40k+? Happy to be proved wrong on this.Edited by audi321 on Monday 22 October 21:17
Teslas definitely split opinion, I count mine as one of the worst cars I have ever had. Absolutely the worst built and the only car I have had that actually ruins journeys.
ntiz said:
Has anyone on the planet actually bought one for £30k yet?
No one has bought one for £ yet at all.Currently the cheapest for sale is the mid range rwd at $45k, this has the premium interior and pano roof tagged on also so is $45k cash, this works out currently to £38500 when converted to GBP and VAT added and the £2500 subsidy taken off.
Once the short range with standard interior is around it will be a touch under £30k and compete with the kona, niro, eaf etc. Should be a better drive (rwd etc) but obviously booted rather than hatch. Oh and they'll make a lot of them.
RobDickinson said:
No one has bought one for £ yet at all.
Currently the cheapest for sale is the mid range rwd at $45k, this has the premium interior and pano roof tagged on also so is $45k cash, this works out currently to £38500 when converted to GBP and VAT added and the £2500 subsidy taken off.
Once the short range with standard interior is around it will be a touch under £30k and compete with the kona, niro, eaf etc. Should be a better drive (rwd etc) but obviously booted rather than hatch. Oh and they'll make a lot of them.
And this will happen when? 2021? 2022? Not that I am cynical of Teslas ability to deliver on promises Currently the cheapest for sale is the mid range rwd at $45k, this has the premium interior and pano roof tagged on also so is $45k cash, this works out currently to £38500 when converted to GBP and VAT added and the £2500 subsidy taken off.
Once the short range with standard interior is around it will be a touch under £30k and compete with the kona, niro, eaf etc. Should be a better drive (rwd etc) but obviously booted rather than hatch. Oh and they'll make a lot of them.
In fairness this is bit of an issue with Tesla I was looking at buying a Model S 100d couple of months back the price changed 3 times in 2 weeks. On the website the spec also changed as well but was hard to keep track when you are considering spending 100k+ it is a little disconcerting.
ntiz said:
In fairness this is bit of an issue with Tesla I was looking at buying a Model S 100d couple of months back the price changed 3 times in 2 weeks. On the website the spec also changed as well but was hard to keep track when you are considering spending 100k+ it is a little disconcerting.
It's crazy options appearing, disappearing, changing price like there is no though or strategy. Plus the poor way the price is displayed 'after fuel savings'. Mr is only 3k cheaper than the old long range rwd now..
audi321 said:
The one big problem (for me) with the Model 3 is the fact it’s a saloon.
The number of times I’m carting old washing machines/fridges/etc in my Model S to the tip would mean it’s a deal breaker for me.
I’ve still got my reservation down though. Can’t bring myself to cancel it.
The only Model 3 that interests me is the 'P' version, otherwise like you said save your self the cash and get a Kona EV. Use the spare cash on something crazy - like a Twizzy.The number of times I’m carting old washing machines/fridges/etc in my Model S to the tip would mean it’s a deal breaker for me.
I’ve still got my reservation down though. Can’t bring myself to cancel it.
I always believe a good product will sell without a discount. Its quite telling on PCP the Kona isnt much cheaper than the deals Jaguar was doing recently for the iPace.
The Kona EV is the BEST EV on the market right now in terms of price/range/tech, much better value than a Model 3, and makea a joke of how much a S/X/iPace/Audi/Merc costs. The only draw back is its small, but so it the 3/iPace.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 24th October 10:39
FurtiveFreddy said:
DonkeyApple said:
I think another major drawback is it’s inability to project neither the image of wealth or fashion?
That's not a drawback to some, including me.But this is a hugely important EV as it will help show what true demand is away from those metrics that are so vital for selling many expensive goods.
£35k for a solid 250 mile range in a nice sized car that is likely to be very well built is cheap and enticing for an EV but not so cheap or enticing versus ICE or hybrids. It’s arguably a luxury good without a luxury badge.
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