First time considering an EV
Discussion
Heres Johnny said:
That doesn’t make sense. People change cars because they get bored or want a refresh.
People with MONEY change their cars just because they can. Come to the street where I use to live and yout struggle to find a car newer than 5 years old, infact my old neighbours still have a 02 plate Almera and a 07 plate A4.The current EV buyers are very much at the top of premium market, their buying habits are simply not representative of the mass market.
Why do you think the Ford Fiesta is the best selling car in the UK instead of a Model S?
Even in California home of Tesla, on the freeway the vast majority of people are driving cars older than 5 years.
Just because we are luckily enough to afford a Tesla and change it if wanted doesnt mean thats how the mass market will buy/use EVs.
This is why the Kona is such a great EV, but its still far too expensive by about £10-15k. £20k for a 200-300 miles range EV is whats needed EVs to really become mass market. A £70k perfomance Model 3 is as relevent to most people as a Fabergé egg, as much as Musk talk about wanting to bring EV transportation to all, Tesla isnt going to be the brand to do that.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 21st November 02:08
gangzoom said:
People with MONEY change their cars just because they can. Come to the street where I use to live and yout struggle to find a car newer than 5 years old, infact my old neighbours still have a 02 plate Almera and a 07 plate A4.
What’s that got to do with querying why people are saying they’re looking at buying a new EV and saying they’ll keep it for 10 years? I am familiar with the fact that some people buy 5 year old cars and run them until they fall apart, but that’s not what I’m talking about. It’s people suggesting they’ll buy a new EV and run it forever. I’ve never seen anyone talk about buying a new ICE with a view to keeping it for 10 years, even though the odd person does. Did your old neighbours buy their A4 new, or did they buy it when it was 4 or 5 years old? Heres Johnny said:
I am familiar with the fact that some people buy 5 year old cars and run them until they fall apart
From the way you phrase that its pretty clear we live in different worlds.As much as I love EVs none on sale today are going to convince the majority to give up combustion cars, not even the Model 3. Sadly even for us even I cannot see us getting the Model 3 to go totally EV, the range and price ratio is just far too high, as tempting as the Performance 3 is
.Heres Johnny said:
That doesn’t make sense. People change cars because they get bored or want a refresh..
That's certainly true of some, especially relatively young people who consider that they are working up some sort of heirachy of car ownership and/or feel they have something to prove to their associates by what they drive. However, I think to your architypal brand new Fiesta/Focus buyer (we have one next door) that idea would be as alien as buying a new washing machine "because they got bored of the old one". If asked why they replace their cars every three years, our neighbours say something like "we can't be bothered with the hastle of running an older car" and/or "the new one is more efficient and tax is only £10 a year".
kerskambites said:
The Mad Monk said:
Where can I find real world anticipated range mileages for EVs?
It's difficult because range depends so much on how/where you drive. One person could easily get 300 miles out of a car which someone else would get 150 out of just because they use them differently. Where can I find anticipated 'best case' and 'worst case' scenario mileages?
The Mad Monk said:
Where can I find anticipated 'best case' and 'worst case' scenario mileages?
I haven't come across a generic resource for such things, unfortunately. As far as I know the WLTP figures are the best we have at the moment and you'll have to somehow figure out how your usage compares to the test cycle. dmsims said:
E7 at home I pay 9p per Kwh
Given a realistic 4 miles per Kwh - that's 2.25p per mile
or at 3.5 miles per Kwh - 2.6p per mile
I stated that home charging was cheaper.Given a realistic 4 miles per Kwh - that's 2.25p per mile
or at 3.5 miles per Kwh - 2.6p per mile
4 miles per kwh is in the type of car that the ICE equivalent can do 50-60mpg
Public charging at 20-30p kwh means 5-7p a mile, the ICE is doing 8-10p a mile.
gangzoom said:
From the way you phrase that its pretty clear we live in different worlds.
As much as I love EVs none on sale today are going to convince the majority to give up combustion cars, not even the Model 3. Sadly even for us even I cannot see us getting the Model 3 to go totally EV, the range and price ratio is just far too high, as tempting as the Performance 3 is.
No, my sister and her husband are a one, low income family, they buy 2 year old cars, don't rely on credit, and sell after 4 years. The cars then done 70k miles. As much as I love EVs none on sale today are going to convince the majority to give up combustion cars, not even the Model 3. Sadly even for us even I cannot see us getting the Model 3 to go totally EV, the range and price ratio is just far too high, as tempting as the Performance 3 is
.Sell your cars and buy two Konas. or a Kona and a used Leaf, there are options, but you want two Teslas, your current one and based on the 300 posts you've done on getting a performance M3, one of those. Having one new Tesla MX and then pleading poverty about buying a second performance one doesn't do you any favours.
Heres Johnny said:
gangzoom said:
From the way you phrase that its pretty clear we live in different worlds.
As much as I love EVs none on sale today are going to convince the majority to give up combustion cars, not even the Model 3. Sadly even for us even I cannot see us getting the Model 3 to go totally EV, the range and price ratio is just far too high, as tempting as the Performance 3 is.
No, my sister and her husband are a one, low income family, they buy 2 year old cars, don't rely on credit, and sell after 4 years. The cars then done 70k miles. As much as I love EVs none on sale today are going to convince the majority to give up combustion cars, not even the Model 3. Sadly even for us even I cannot see us getting the Model 3 to go totally EV, the range and price ratio is just far too high, as tempting as the Performance 3 is
.Sell your cars and buy two Konas. or a Kona and a used Leaf, there are options, but you want two Teslas, your current one and based on the 300 posts you've done on getting a performance M3, one of those. Having one new Tesla MX and then pleading poverty about buying a second performance one doesn't do you any favours.
Having 170k tied up in 2 cars is quite a big ask and would make even the wealthiest chap look hard at the proposition to decide if it is what he really wants. An unfortunate fact for most is that as good as Teslas are it is handy having a back up ICE.
Heres Johnny said:
I stated that home charging was cheaper.
4 miles per kwh is in the type of car that the ICE equivalent can do 50-60mpg
Public charging at 20-30p kwh means 5-7p a mile, the ICE is doing 8-10p a mile.
I’m not sure if you’re discussing the relative efficiency or the relative cost or both maybe. Cost wise in my case at least an EV costs so little that it’s not really worth talking about. Based on charging at home. I suspect the vast majority of those savings are tax related. It’s in the region of 10 quid a month. I barely notice it on the electricity bills. 4 miles per kwh is in the type of car that the ICE equivalent can do 50-60mpg
Public charging at 20-30p kwh means 5-7p a mile, the ICE is doing 8-10p a mile.
Public charging is very expensive and then the business case changes and your figures make sense. But it’s also hard to know what to compare with. From an experience (and environmental) point of view, an EV ain’t no diesel car. Both positively and negatively. I tend to compare with higher performing petrol cars.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff