PHEV cars rarely Charged and run on Petrol
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
There's a point where too much battery and cost there makes it pointless having the hybrid side.
With 24kwh (if you charge..) you'd use the ice side so infrequently it would have to run to use up aging fuel anyhow
I don't have a problem with that, you'd still be using less of the stuff. With 24kwh (if you charge..) you'd use the ice side so infrequently it would have to run to use up aging fuel anyhow
I suspect the moment has passed now though, what with BEVs increasing range and decreasing charging times.
Merry said:
I suspect the issue is packaging. I suspect lot of the German stuff wasn't designed with batteries in mind and therefore have limited space to put them.
Others, such as the Outlander it's probably a case of cost/what was available at the time. They've been for sale for I guess about 5 years now? There's been a few leaps in battery tech since then.
I don't see any reason why someone couldn't fit a 24kwh pack where the existing one is now. I find the range as it is useful, but doubling it would be great.
That makes sense. We’re going to see a huge expansion in the types of hybrids so that they fill all price ranges as well as usage requirements. It’s going to be a very long time before both the infrastructure, pricing and material stability of EVs make them the dominant option to avoid ICE. And that’s before we take China v West into account and whatever the hell that is all going to transpire to be or how it manifests itself. Others, such as the Outlander it's probably a case of cost/what was available at the time. They've been for sale for I guess about 5 years now? There's been a few leaps in battery tech since then.
I don't see any reason why someone couldn't fit a 24kwh pack where the existing one is now. I find the range as it is useful, but doubling it would be great.
There’s going to be a battery cost/weight sweet spot where the bulk of hybrids are of genuine use to all but it does still appear that at present there is legislative piss taking as per usual.
Merry said:
I suspect the issue is packaging. I suspect lot of the German stuff wasn't designed with batteries in mind and therefore have limited space to put them.
Others, such as the Outlander it's probably a case of cost/what was available at the time. They've been for sale for I guess about 5 years now? There's been a few leaps in battery tech since then.
I don't see any reason why someone couldn't fit a 24kwh pack where the existing one is now. I find the range as it is useful, but doubling it would be great.
The 2019 is just under 14kwh.Others, such as the Outlander it's probably a case of cost/what was available at the time. They've been for sale for I guess about 5 years now? There's been a few leaps in battery tech since then.
I don't see any reason why someone couldn't fit a 24kwh pack where the existing one is now. I find the range as it is useful, but doubling it would be great.
I think a large issue is with weight. Same as mpg on large cars, a person can choose a smaller BEV and get range, or a large PHEV and suffer with range but get a REX.
I don't think the Prius PH is much larger in capacity.
cj2013 said:
The 2019 is just under 14kwh.
Off the top of my head the earlier ones are 12kwh, but only use 9kwh to help with longevity. I'm sure they could have improved upon that for not much cost/weight penalty. But then I don't run the design office of a multi million pound car company so I'm probably not qualified to say!
Merry said:
Off the top of my head the earlier ones are 12kwh, but only use 9kwh to help with longevity. I'm sure they could have improved upon that for not much cost/weight penalty.
But then I don't run the design office of a multi million pound car company so I'm probably not qualified to say!
Mitsubishi use large and quite old school cells, they also under volt them to try and protect them more.But then I don't run the design office of a multi million pound car company so I'm probably not qualified to say!
I'm normal use they can be delivering 5c (~60kw) and being charged at 3c. Plus with a phev your often using the whole available battery. This isn't great for battery life.
Mine isn't doing so badly (90 soh at 57k) but I know people who are at 75 or below and Mitsubishi are wriggling out of any warrenty issues..
DonkeyApple said:
What’s the reason for PHEV SUVs having such low ranges? They do just seem to have the bare minimum to enable being classified as hybrids and I can see those particular legislative goalposts being moved sooner rather than later.
Something with a 100 mile electric range would be genuinely useful rather than just appearing to be a bit of a messy, inefficient and not particularly environmental tax wheeze?
Also, what’s the reason for not being able to plug a Lexus Gx400 in as that seems to have a good EV range and a nice petrol engine when needed?
With reference to your last point: it's because they're self-charging hybrids! Clever (spin-doctors) at Toyota advertising dept...Something with a 100 mile electric range would be genuinely useful rather than just appearing to be a bit of a messy, inefficient and not particularly environmental tax wheeze?
Also, what’s the reason for not being able to plug a Lexus Gx400 in as that seems to have a good EV range and a nice petrol engine when needed?
REALIST123 said:
Russ T Bolt said:
Jag_NE said:
Russ T Bolt said:
Jag_NE said:
cj2013 said:
Jag_NE said:
Yes, crap power train aside they are still awful cars.
You seem to be quite bothered by them. I've heard nothing but glowing reports from everyone who owns one. Most dealers sell them as soon as they arrive, too.Let me give you a clue; one regularly achieves 4+ out of 5 stars in reviews and is credited with ‘class leading dynamics’.
The other manages 2 stars in most categories, though it’s cheap price and space are occasionally credited with more.
I guess none of those reviewers have a clue?
They aren’t comparable cars.
But as a daily driver I want a car I know will start and get me to my destination. Which do you think is likely to achieve that ?
Tbh not comparable anyhow.
Which other plug in hybrid 4wd cars are there? Volvo, range Rover etc All the other options are better cars but over twice the price.
Compared to my previous car (grand vitara) the interior is better the drive is better etc but it's a more expensive car overall.
Which other plug in hybrid 4wd cars are there? Volvo, range Rover etc All the other options are better cars but over twice the price.
Compared to my previous car (grand vitara) the interior is better the drive is better etc but it's a more expensive car overall.
Europa Jon said:
With reference to your last point: it's because they're self-charging hybrids! Clever (spin-doctors) at Toyota advertising dept...
You certainly notice that a lot of money has been spent by Lexus in stage managing Google search results. All you get continually blasted at you is that phrase. I tried to delve a little deeper as to why the Lexus brand has seemingly not moved forward in the same direction as the Toyota brand and got the impression it was a cost thing and that it was cheaper to stage manage the marketing guff than change the product at this point in time.
Having said that, maybe it’s because the typical Lexus consumer is too ‘Posh to Plug’ unlike the blue collar scum of the earth who buy Toyotas?
We have 2 PHEV's
One used as an electric car. Other Tax dodge.
Golf GTE used every day for short trips, school runs, shops, care work etc. Get 15 miles in winter and 25+ in summer. Nearly all trip on battery.
Its excellent
Other is to avoid tax of diesels. I wanted an XF but the government said that now over 30% BIK and £400 a month thank you.
While the 5 series is nowhere near as economical or as nice to drive as an XF its still a great car. The technology is built quality is fantastic so I cant complain and BIK is 12-14% so not a bad compromise but I need to charge it!!
I charge mine and get 46mpg inc 200-300 motorway runs. My colleague doesn't charge and gets 36mpg. We both get paid 15ppm.
Overall PHEV's are great. BUT!! it depends on how they are used. Short trip - great. Motorway runs they are more polluting than diesels.
One used as an electric car. Other Tax dodge.
Golf GTE used every day for short trips, school runs, shops, care work etc. Get 15 miles in winter and 25+ in summer. Nearly all trip on battery.
Its excellent
Other is to avoid tax of diesels. I wanted an XF but the government said that now over 30% BIK and £400 a month thank you.
While the 5 series is nowhere near as economical or as nice to drive as an XF its still a great car. The technology is built quality is fantastic so I cant complain and BIK is 12-14% so not a bad compromise but I need to charge it!!
I charge mine and get 46mpg inc 200-300 motorway runs. My colleague doesn't charge and gets 36mpg. We both get paid 15ppm.
Overall PHEV's are great. BUT!! it depends on how they are used. Short trip - great. Motorway runs they are more polluting than diesels.
cj2013 said:
Jag_NE said:
Yes, crap power train aside they are still awful cars.
You seem to be quite bothered by them. I've heard nothing but glowing reports from everyone who owns one. Most dealers sell them as soon as they arrive, too.It is charged daily and for short runs about town, it is great. But then why not have an i3 or Leaf for that, and a second car for the long journeys?
Truth be told, I wish I'd tested it more on the open road.
Russ T Bolt said:
REALIST123 said:
Russ T Bolt said:
Jag_NE said:
Russ T Bolt said:
Jag_NE said:
cj2013 said:
Jag_NE said:
Yes, crap power train aside they are still awful cars.
You seem to be quite bothered by them. I've heard nothing but glowing reports from everyone who owns one. Most dealers sell them as soon as they arrive, too.Let me give you a clue; one regularly achieves 4+ out of 5 stars in reviews and is credited with ‘class leading dynamics’.
The other manages 2 stars in most categories, though it’s cheap price and space are occasionally credited with more.
I guess none of those reviewers have a clue?
They aren’t comparable cars.
But as a daily driver I want a car I know will start and get me to my destination. Which do you think is likely to achieve that ?
You have some odd perceptions.
onlynik said:
I have one and it is the worst car I have ever bought, woefully underpowered, thinnest paint known to man, can't get 3 adults and two car seats in it. There is a lag (of about 1 second) when you put your foot down to overtake, when it changes from battery to engine, the leather is poor, the ICE is painful to use, the tyres are leathal in the wet or snow, body roll makes you sick, only gets 30 mpg on long runs.
It is charged daily and for short runs about town, it is great. But then why not have an i3 or Leaf for that, and a second car for the long journeys?
Truth be told, I wish I'd tested it more on the open road.
Sounds like you just bought the wrong car.It is charged daily and for short runs about town, it is great. But then why not have an i3 or Leaf for that, and a second car for the long journeys?
Truth be told, I wish I'd tested it more on the open road.
How many 5 PHEV/EVs can fit 3 adults and two car seats? (or even, how many 5 seater cars). From what I saw, the i3 or Leaf are incomparable with load space.
onlynik said:
It is charged daily and for short runs about town, it is great. But then why not have an i3 or Leaf for that, and a second car for the long journeys?
Because you'd need twice the purchasing, then two parking spaces, two lots of road tax, twice the insurance, twice the servicing, and you'd suffer twice the depreciation etc?If someone had two, the question would likely be "why not get a decent sized PHEV with REX instead of two cars?"
Edited by cj2013 on Tuesday 20th November 19:55
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