Batteries dead after 5 years

[RobDickinson]

Heres Johnny said:

Have a prang in a Tesla beyond a cosmetic knock and wave goodbye to supercharging, software updates, app access etc unless you pay Tesla or their approved agents to fix. And recent threads have quotes of 2.5k to 3k for a scratch most others are quoting £500 to fix. It’s thinly disguised extortion

By 'a prang' you mean write the car off and have it deregistered in which case your insurance company will pay for a replacement.

It's the person buying the wreck hoping to get it back on the road that will have to sort the rest out, you can do the mechanics fine but tesla don't like the rest, there's a guy in nz repaired a model s perfectly. Even had the inspection it's all fine, apart from no free supercharger any more even though he had promises for it..

[colinrob]

I will keep my ice V10 and V6 I like the noise and know that as long as I keep up with the servicing etc I will never have to change the engine
We all know battery’s degrade just look at the power tools we all use

[gangzoom]

RobDickinson said:

Tesla though do tie you into their parts and repair etc. Door handles coded to the car

Door handles are not coded to the car, and Tesla in anycase are covering them beyond the normal warranty.

[gangzoom]

Heres Johnny said:

Have a prang in a Tesla beyond a cosmetic knock and wave goodbye to supercharging, software updates, app access etc unless you pay Tesla or their approved agents to fix. And recent threads have quotes of 2.5k to 3k for a scratch most others are quoting £500 to fix. It’s thinly disguised extortion

Lexus quoted us £2k to repair a small scratch on the rear bumper, and wanted £120 for a single reflector. My local BMW dealer refused to sell me a rocket cover gasket unless I paid for them to do the work.

ALL main dealers are extortionate. As for Supercharger access am not sure I would want any one plugging in a 100KW+ power transfer setup without knowing its been repaired properly. Am not sure how the likes of Jag/Audi are going to approach things, given even a small battery in something like a phone can explode pretty spectacularly a whole EV pack going up on flames isn't something I want to see first hand. Am pretty sure the first fire at a Ionity charger due to a bodged repaired car will cause some kind of legistation of mandatory pack inspection if a car is damage to a certain degree.

You really need to make up your mind about Tesla ownership, on one hand you seem to have turned a blind eye to Tesla with their awful 90kWh pack chemistry - which could lead to a £20k+ bill out of warranty and exactly the thing OP is posting about, on the otherhand you moan about things all other main dealers do.....main dealer ripping people off, Tesla didnt invent that concept.

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 18th November 03:56

[Evanivitch]

colinrob said:

I will keep my ice V10 and V6 I like the noise and know that as long as I keep up with the servicing etc I will never have to change the engine
We all know battery’s degrade just look at the power tools we all use

Comparing power tool batteries to an EV is like comparing a 2 stroke lawnmower engine to a modern ICE.

Your engines might be reliable, bit there are plenty of engines from major manufacturers that have proven to have significant failures despite the best maintenance regimes (BMW timing chains, Porsche cylinders and Ford turbos to name but a few).

[lowdrag]

gangzoom said:

Just looking at another post on this forum about combustion cars breaking down.....£10k+ repair bills on brands like Audi/BMW - with supposedly amazing build quality.

I find it halirous people on this forum think EVs will become too expensive to keep longterm when we all know just how much combustion cars cost to keep going.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Some of your statements about my OP are, as you, um, put it are "halirous". Do you mean "hilarious" perhaps? Whatever, I repost to correct your "factual" statements. I posted an article from a French magazine to provoke thought. I expect I had an electric vehicle way before you even thought they existed; 1977 in fact. I went to work in it, returned, plugged it in, and hey-ho, there it was all ready for the next day. It never let me down and was perfect for the job. I have not tried a modern one but mine was just fine back then. What I do object to is this evangelism that tries to ram down my throat that the future is electric. It may well be so, but there are enough reasons to doubt that the time has yet come. The question of global warming is one in point. If batteries are made in China and then shipped to the UK in a diesel-glugging ship and cars are not built to last 20 years we have some serious counter-balancing questions to ask. Some of us are not instantly converted by this evangelism and sit back, watch developments, and then take a considered decision. We should all have bought Betamax in the day but publicity meant that VHS won the day.

"£10K" repair bills on ICE vehicles huh? Well, was the car properly maintained, did it have enough oil, was it hitting the rev limiter every time it was driven? Just a few questions that pop into my head. I need more information before condemning out of hand a form of transport I have used all my life - with never an engine failure. I calculate that I am well north of one million miles in this antiquated form of transport by the way, and in the last 25 years I have owned three cars, driven 600,000 miles, and not one engine failure. In fact, I have spent just £4,000 on repairs, usual servicing and consumables apart. Will an EV match that in the near future? I don't know, but at the moment it doesn't fit my profile, such as driving to Alicante in one day, or 880 miles, at an average speed of over 80 mph. In under 11 hours.

So if you don't mind I'll sit back and await developments before jumping off into space. My post pointed out that there are some cars that are problematical (the Leaf has been mentioned numerous times) but I have absolutely no personal experience. As that funny little robot used to say, "I need input".

[RobDickinson]

My brothers 996 lunched it's engine and that was properly maintained and less than 10 years old at the time.

[gangzoom]

lowdrag said:

I calculate that I am well north of one million miles in this antiquated form of transport by the way, and in the last 25 years I have owned three cars, driven 600,000 miles, and not one engine failure. In fact, I have spent just £4,000 on repairs, usual servicing and consumables apart.

I bought a 2.5 year old BMW 335i from a BMW main dealer, full BMW servcie history. I gave it a full oil service every year. By the time I sold it it would have cost more than £4k in maintenance/repair bills had I used a BMW main dealer. The list things that went wrong with it were all 'kown' issues that if I lived in the US BMW would have covered for free due to been sued, but in the UK these issues are just the problem for owners to deal with....

Just Google N54 problems and your see the list for your self. Equally a friends 911 just been hit with a £10k engine rebuild bill for knock.

I'll be keeping our EV for 8 years and I highly doubt maintenance costs will be anything near that of an equivalent perfomance combustion car - SQ7/RR sport etc.

There are real concerns about battery degredation but real world data doesn't support it. Even the 24kWh Leaf seems to level off degredation after about 70%.

The ultimate proof is how many Taxi firms start taking up EVs as they have done with hybrids. The few Taxi firms who have taken up EVs seem very happy.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/environment/2017/...

[98elise]

Heres Johnny said:

Have a prang in a Tesla beyond a cosmetic knock and wave goodbye to supercharging, software updates, app access etc unless you pay Tesla or their approved agents to fix. And recent threads have quotes of 2.5k to 3k for a scratch most others are quoting £500 to fix. It’s thinly disguised extortion

So you can get that scratch fixed for £500 and still keep the superchaging, software updates app access etc?

[ExVantagemech..]

Evanivitch said:

Comparing power tool batteries to an EV is like comparing a 2 stroke lawnmower engine to a modern ICE.

Your engines might be reliable, bit there are plenty of engines from major manufacturers that have proven to have significant failures despite the best maintenance regimes (BMW timing chains, Porsche cylinders and Ford turbos to name but a few).

Not power tool batteries, but are the same as those e-cigarette / vape things.

[cj2013]

ExVantagemech.. said:

Not power tool batteries, but are the same as those e-cigarette / vape things.

Not even slightly.

Unless of course you are suggesting that they spend millions/billions developing the battery management on those atomisers

[Evanivitch]

ExVantagemech.. said:

Not power tool batteries, but are the same as those e-cigarette / vape things.

Nope. Definitely not the same packaging, not the same Battery Management System, certainly not the same Thermal Management, infact is a vape even a battery or just a cell?

[anonymous-user]

Seems to me that many of the flaws we undoubtedly see in certain types of ICE from time to time are often down to misguided efforts to cut costs, increase efficiency etc.

How long before that starts to happen in EVs? I know they’re inherently less complex but we’ve already seen instances of design failures; wait till the value engineering begins.......

[anonymous-user]

colinrob said:

I will keep my ice V10 and V6 I like the noise and know that as long as I keep up with the servicing etc I will never have to change the engine
We all know battery’s degrade just look at the power tools we all use

jeez, some people really aren't all there are they........


Anyone who thinks an internal combustion engine with about a thousand moving parts is "more reliable" than a battery and an electric motor is frankly, just kidding themselves!

M5_lunches_engine_on_ph


BTW, If he'd just said:

colinrob said:

I will keep my ice V10 and V6 I like the noise

then i'd be 100% in agreement!

[ExVantagemech..]

Evanivitch said:

Nope. Definitely not the same packaging, not the same Battery Management System, certainly not the same Thermal Management, infact is a vape even a battery or just a cell?

Not what one of the engineers at JLR told me when he saw someone's vape battery on the bench charging. Explained how there are many thousands of these cells in a Tesla's battery, the same one that they use in the ePace.

Edit: 18650 cells used in Tesla batteries also used in e-cigs. Sure the tech is different but the cell itself is still the same item.

Edited by ExVantagemech.. on Sunday 18th November 09:56

[Evanivitch]

ExVantagemech.. said:

Not what one of the engineers at JLR told me when he saw someone's vape battery on the bench charging. Explained how there are many thousands of these cells in a Tesla's battery, the same one that they use in the ePace.

Edit: 18650 cells used in Tesla batteries also used in e-cigs. Sure the tech is different but the cell itself is still the same item.

Edited by ExVantagemech.. on Sunday 18th November 09:56

And a JLR engineer is your only reference?

An 18650 is a size. Nothing more. So by that rights a 16 litre Bugatti Veyron engine is the same as a 16 Litre MTU unit.

[RJG46]

Max_Torque said:

colinrob said:

I will keep my ice V10 and V6 I like the noise and know that as long as I keep up with the servicing etc I will never have to change the engine
We all know battery’s degrade just look at the power tools we all use

jeez, some people really aren't all there are they........


Anyone who thinks an internal combustion engine with about a thousand moving parts is "more reliable" than a battery and an electric motor is frankly, just kidding themselves!

M5_lunches_engine_on_ph

Groan. Just back from the protests in Central London? A new engine for the vast majority of ICE engined cars (i don't know anyone that's suffered catastrophic engine failure) would still be far cheaper than a new battery pack.

[Mr E]

RJG46 said:

Groan. Just back from the protests in Central London? A new engine for the vast majority of ICE engined cars (i don't know anyone that's suffered catastrophic engine failure) would still be far cheaper than a new battery pack.

Depends on the car I guess.

This was interesting earlier in the year (no idea if it actually happened).
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/electrek.co/2018/03...

1) I bought the milk float having done the maths on range with a not new battery pack in the depths of winter. It’ll still get me to work.

A replacement k series for the lotus would be cheaper than a battery pack replacement.
A replacement M183 for the family bus will almost certainly write the car off.

[cj2013]

ExVantagemech.. said:

Not what one of the engineers at JLR told me when he saw someone's vape battery on the bench charging. Explained how there are many thousands of these cells in a Tesla's battery, the same one that they use in the ePace.

Edit: 18650 cells used in Tesla batteries also used in e-cigs. Sure the tech is different but the cell itself is still the same item.

Edited by ExVantagemech.. on Sunday 18th November 09:56

Finding it hard to follow what you're saying, but it sounds like an engineer made a very basic reference to a battery, and you have taken it literally, and completely out of context.

[lowdrag]

[quote] 1) I bought the milk float having done the maths on range with a not new battery pack in the depths of winter. It’ll still get me to work.

[/quote]

Which was what I was referring to in my post above. 26mph downhill, 12 up the other side, and a maximum of 15 mph on the flat. And no quicker when i had delivered the milk and only had the empties on the back. Roller blind doors, and believe me it was cold in the winter when the milk froze and the tops lifted off the bottle!