Batteries dead after 5 years
Discussion
lowdrag said:
Which was what I was referring to in my post above. 26mph downhill, 12 up the other side, and a maximum of 15 mph on the flat. And no quicker when i had delivered the milk and only had the empties on the back. Roller blind doors, and believe me it was cold in the winter when the milk froze and the tops lifted off the bottle!
I used to meet a milk float on the way to work when I was on a push bike. I’d try to pass it. 
cj2013 said:
Finding it hard to follow what you're saying, but it sounds like an engineer made a very basic reference to a battery, and you have taken it literally, and completely out of context.
His remark was that the battery in the E cig was not far removed from the 7,200 or so in a Tesla. Neither he or I have said you can run one on e-cigs , merely the comparison that was made earlier about batteries and hand tools. They aren't massively different, the electronics that control them are, obviously.ExVantagemech.. said:
His remark was that the battery in the E cig was not far removed from the 7,200 or so in a Tesla. Neither he or I have said you can run one on e-cigs , merely the comparison that was made earlier about batteries and hand tools. They aren't massively different, the electronics that control them are, obviously.
In size.That's it.
RJG46 said:
Groan. Just back from the protests in Central London? A new engine for the vast majority of ICE engined cars (i don't know anyone that's suffered catastrophic engine failure) would still be far cheaper than a new battery pack.
Any you know this how? (I design cars for a living, both ICE and EVs i know EXACTLY how much they cost to make, and i know the mark up between the parts bought to build your car, and the "service" parts supplied to fix faults etc. The fact is today, we have achieved price parity, and that's with very very much lower build volumes, once EVs go mainstream (and they are, even if you don't like it) then the prices for parts will fall, and dramatically.
Also say "i don't know anyone who's had an engine failure is irrelevant" I don't know anyone either, so should we determine from that that therefore no-one has actually ever had an engine failure??
Modern cars are very reliable, they a have a 10year, 150kmile design life (note DESIGN LIFE) and critical failures are well into fractions of single 10ths of a point percentage wise. Most people do not have engine failures, however, every single car ever built, be that EV or ICE wears out when you use it. The facts are however that EVs are simpler, and easier to refurbish, as they have many fewer moving parts, so they are intrinsically more reliable.
My little i3 has the tiny tiny battery, and can manage a paltry 70 miles odd in winter. But as my daily commute is 32 miles, who cares? The battery can degrade to 50 at something like 150k miles (and unlike an ICE failure, battery degradation tends not to happen suddenly unexpectedly, unlike say the DMF failing, or a Cambelt snapping etc), which is 4688 commuting days, or 18.5 years of driving to work!
A 45mpg car costs around 15pence per mile (£22,500 in fuel to do 150kmiles) vs my i3 (currently sat, including preconditioning at 1.8pence per mile) which will cost me £2700 to drive the same distance. So, unless a new battery in 2036 costs more than £19,800 then i'm quids in (and of course, i'll also have improved local air quality, and had an enormously lower carbon footprint over those years)
EVs are taking over. You're either with us, or against us. Chose your side carefully........... ;-)
Evanivitch said:
ExVantagemech.. said:
His remark was that the battery in the E cig was not far removed from the 7,200 or so in a Tesla. Neither he or I have said you can run one on e-cigs , merely the comparison that was made earlier about batteries and hand tools. They aren't massively different, the electronics that control them are, obviously.
In size.That's it.
This is a hand grenade:
Both are about the same size, they must be the same then eh?? /PHLOGIC
(Must make an "apple for the Teacher" a real fun time........ ;-)
boyse7en said:
It a bit disingenuous to lump the costs of the replacement batteries into the cost of fuelling the car over it's lifetime. If an ICE car had a catastrophic engine failure (á la Porsche and BMW a few years ago) outside of warranty then it would be seen as a one-off cost of however many thousands to replace it.
Better to look at the total cost of ownership over the lifetime - which in this case is stratospherically high. Certainly if batteries routinely start failing at this sort of mileage/age then there is an issue. If it is a one-off then while annoying and expensive for the customer it is not really an issue that the wider public needs to be overly worried about.
Electric pick up is about installing confidence in consumers. Better to look at the total cost of ownership over the lifetime - which in this case is stratospherically high. Certainly if batteries routinely start failing at this sort of mileage/age then there is an issue. If it is a one-off then while annoying and expensive for the customer it is not really an issue that the wider public needs to be overly worried about.
A pure battery vehicle had fewer moving parts than a high performance engine. A battery has how many moving parts?
Asking 17,000 is fair?
To fail after 60,000miles is acceptable?
5,000 off another elctric vehicle from them is a slap in the face.
k me, the pedant hat is in full use in this thread....Sa Calobra said:
Electric pick up is about installing confidence in consumers.
A pure battery vehicle had fewer moving parts than a high performance engine. A battery has how many moving parts?
Asking 17,000 is fair?
To fail after 60,000miles is acceptable?
5,000 off another elctric vehicle from them is a slap in the face.
These figures have already been disputed. Asking 17k for an 11k car is clearly stupid likely completely untrue.A pure battery vehicle had fewer moving parts than a high performance engine. A battery has how many moving parts?
Asking 17,000 is fair?
To fail after 60,000miles is acceptable?
5,000 off another elctric vehicle from them is a slap in the face.
60,000 miles might be acceptable, we don't know how it was treated. The same as any ICE car that is treated badly can easily fail early. 5K off another car is a fairly generous offer, if an ICE car failed out of warranty (and if the headlines are to be believed all Ford Ecoboost drivers are simply waiting for this to happen daily) then an offer of almost 50% of the original purchase price would be very kind indeed.
Did you pay £16,000 in cash or get it in credit?
I'll get a EV car one day. When the tech is refined with no mileage or cost limitations.
A future EV vehicle shouldn't cost getting on for 20k. The car industry needs an evolution.
One day you'll get a decent EV vehicle for 6k.
EV currently isnt a cleaner fuel.
I'll get a EV car one day. When the tech is refined with no mileage or cost limitations.
A future EV vehicle shouldn't cost getting on for 20k. The car industry needs an evolution.
One day you'll get a decent EV vehicle for 6k.
EV currently isnt a cleaner fuel.
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