Batteries dead after 5 years
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
EVs are taking over. You're either with us, or against us. Chose your side carefully........... ;-)
Not sure about choosing your side carefully, but I agree with everything else you've said. People who insist they will never give up petrol are going to be deeply disappointed. Which is a good thing, because we can't afford to carry on churning out emissions at the current rate.Interested. You developed the ipace.
Did you carry out a nuclear fuel lifetime impact v fossil fuel v mining/mineral (Inc workers rights) and disposal costs on batteries whilst doing this?
On another note genuinely interested to see thoughts on hydrogen versus electric.
I don't think today's EV are anywhere near as green as they should be. The future, yes.
I'll stick to my old petrol car for now.
Did you carry out a nuclear fuel lifetime impact v fossil fuel v mining/mineral (Inc workers rights) and disposal costs on batteries whilst doing this?
On another note genuinely interested to see thoughts on hydrogen versus electric.
I don't think today's EV are anywhere near as green as they should be. The future, yes.
I'll stick to my old petrol car for now.
Sa Calobra said:
Did you carry out a nuclear fuel lifetime impact v fossil fuel v mining/mineral (Inc workers rights) and disposal costs on batteries whilst doing this?
...
I don't think today's EV are anywhere near as green as they should be. The future, yes.
f...
I don't think today's EV are anywhere near as green as they should be. The future, yes.
k's sake, not this again. It's like the vaccines and autism bullst, it just refuses to die.He doesn't need to do the research, because it's been done already.
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/electric...
ExVantagemech.. said:
Evanivitch said:
Nope. Definitely not the same packaging, not the same Battery Management System, certainly not the same Thermal Management, infact is a vape even a battery or just a cell?
Not what one of the engineers at JLR told me when he saw someone's vape battery on the bench charging. Explained how there are many thousands of these cells in a Tesla's battery, the same one that they use in the ePace.Edit: 18650 cells used in Tesla batteries also used in e-cigs. Sure the tech is different but the cell itself is still the same item.
Edited by ExVantagemech.. on Sunday 18th November 09:56
Tesla used the 18650 cell size because it was a standard, they bought in off the shelf cells for the roadster.
But saying every 18650 is the same is like saying every 500cc cylinder is the same.
The chemistry and construction can be quite different.
If/When solid state batteries turn up we'll still see 18650 and 2170 cells made with those.
AFIk the model 3 2170 has 30% more energy density than their old 18650 but its physically larger so each has 50% more energy than the model s 18650's
But saying every 18650 is the same is like saying every 500cc cylinder is the same.
The chemistry and construction can be quite different.
If/When solid state batteries turn up we'll still see 18650 and 2170 cells made with those.
AFIk the model 3 2170 has 30% more energy density than their old 18650 but its physically larger so each has 50% more energy than the model s 18650's
Witchfinder said:
Sa Calobra said:
Did you carry out a nuclear fuel lifetime impact v fossil fuel v mining/mineral (Inc workers rights) and disposal costs on batteries whilst doing this?
...
I don't think today's EV are anywhere near as green as they should be. The future, yes.
f...
I don't think today's EV are anywhere near as green as they should be. The future, yes.
k's sake, not this again. It's like the vaccines and autism bullst, it just refuses to die.He doesn't need to do the research, because it's been done already.
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/electric...
Impactful stuff that you draw your EV power from.
Sa Calobra said:
Sorry. Only 25% of UK power supplies is from renewables.
Impactful stuff that you draw your EV power from.
1. That will increaseImpactful stuff that you draw your EV power from.
2. You can shift it by buying green power.
3. You can generate your own power
4. Even at 25 percent renewable its still better for co2
5. You get to breathe clean air.
ash73 said:
At the foundation of every article like yours is the flawed assumption coal fired power stations converted to burn woodchips are carbon neutral.
Wrong. Even based on Poland's mostly-fossil power, it's STILL better to run an EV over the life of the vehicle.https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/2...
There is so much propaganda, lies and religious lunacy swamping the debate over EVs that it is pretty pointless to head down the road of trying to find true data on various environmental concerns.
Show me an environmentalist and I will show you a liar. They are the big fraud. It is a vital and rational cause that has been hijacked by every religious lunatic desperate to find their guru to kill for, every corporate seeking to manipulate for profit.
It’s not even viable to listen to people in the heart of the industry as it’s always the way that they become brain washed by whichever direction the money is flowing in. I remember everyone in the oil industry, the exact people who knew the amounts of oil available being brainwashed by the recent soiling event of Peak Oil only to be very surprised when the price crashed from $150 to $30 because there was no real shortage.
It is far more sensible to try and stick to the middle ground where common sense and a grip on reality live. It is the place where the extremists of either side see you as the enemy, the blind, the non believers.
Will EVs be good for us environmentally?
There are two different points here. Most affluent humans live in urban environments. Switching the affluent from ICe to EV will help improve the air quality for these important tax payers and the minions who serve them. Improving noise and air quality in the urban environment is something we should all logically strive for. It won’t stop with cars but will go on to homes etc.
The second aspect is the global one. Are EVs good? No. They really are no different from ICE. It remains insanity to believe that excess consumption can resolve the problems caused by excess consumption. While EVs have a very clear benefit at the local level, globally they are a bit of a poster boy for avoiding facing the real issues.
Are battery packs going to make people homeless?
No. Some will blow up. Some will die early. These will obviously be anomalies just as they are with ICEs. Local industries will spring up to refurb packs and within a decade or so no one is going to be thinking twice about such a total non issue.
Will we switch to EVs tomorrow.
No. It is religious, deluded lunacy to claim that there is a yet a viable, commercial market for EVs outside of very niche markets such as small pockets of very high average wealth or high pockets of excess consumption.
The car industry has successfully lobbied for hybrids to be the transition product. Booked that in for a 20 year period. Every new car buyer on the planet could buy a hybrid, very few an EV. The hybrid is clearly the key replacement for the pure ICE for at least a decade while both consumer demand for EV is grown to viable numbers and the sourcing of key production elements are grown and stabilised.
And finally, let ok to the East. Nothing in the West is relevant in the world of EVs. The market is shifting away from the Western economies and consumers.
To genuinely see the future of EVs we need to try and forget our Western outlooks and look to the new economies.
Show me an environmentalist and I will show you a liar. They are the big fraud. It is a vital and rational cause that has been hijacked by every religious lunatic desperate to find their guru to kill for, every corporate seeking to manipulate for profit.
It’s not even viable to listen to people in the heart of the industry as it’s always the way that they become brain washed by whichever direction the money is flowing in. I remember everyone in the oil industry, the exact people who knew the amounts of oil available being brainwashed by the recent soiling event of Peak Oil only to be very surprised when the price crashed from $150 to $30 because there was no real shortage.
It is far more sensible to try and stick to the middle ground where common sense and a grip on reality live. It is the place where the extremists of either side see you as the enemy, the blind, the non believers.
Will EVs be good for us environmentally?
There are two different points here. Most affluent humans live in urban environments. Switching the affluent from ICe to EV will help improve the air quality for these important tax payers and the minions who serve them. Improving noise and air quality in the urban environment is something we should all logically strive for. It won’t stop with cars but will go on to homes etc.
The second aspect is the global one. Are EVs good? No. They really are no different from ICE. It remains insanity to believe that excess consumption can resolve the problems caused by excess consumption. While EVs have a very clear benefit at the local level, globally they are a bit of a poster boy for avoiding facing the real issues.
Are battery packs going to make people homeless?
No. Some will blow up. Some will die early. These will obviously be anomalies just as they are with ICEs. Local industries will spring up to refurb packs and within a decade or so no one is going to be thinking twice about such a total non issue.
Will we switch to EVs tomorrow.
No. It is religious, deluded lunacy to claim that there is a yet a viable, commercial market for EVs outside of very niche markets such as small pockets of very high average wealth or high pockets of excess consumption.
The car industry has successfully lobbied for hybrids to be the transition product. Booked that in for a 20 year period. Every new car buyer on the planet could buy a hybrid, very few an EV. The hybrid is clearly the key replacement for the pure ICE for at least a decade while both consumer demand for EV is grown to viable numbers and the sourcing of key production elements are grown and stabilised.
And finally, let ok to the East. Nothing in the West is relevant in the world of EVs. The market is shifting away from the Western economies and consumers.
To genuinely see the future of EVs we need to try and forget our Western outlooks and look to the new economies.
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