Batteries dead after 5 years
Discussion
poing said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
M4cruiser said:
I have noticed this in my casual search for one. I'm being put off by the practicalities though, which I see like this:-
A 2012 Leaf (24Kw) is around £7,000 (was £6,000 a year ago) but a realistic range on a full charge is 60 miles.
A 2015 Leaf (30Kw) is around £12,000. The full-charge-range when new was about 160 miles, I guess a similar percentage reduction will apply over time.
A 2018 Leaf (40Kw) will give a range of 230 miles, but costs £25,000.
This perspective says it still doesn't make sense for me over a petrol car.
I don't want to make your calculations even worse, but a 30kw Leaf won't do 160 miles. More like 100 - 130 miles max. A 2012 Leaf (24Kw) is around £7,000 (was £6,000 a year ago) but a realistic range on a full charge is 60 miles.
A 2015 Leaf (30Kw) is around £12,000. The full-charge-range when new was about 160 miles, I guess a similar percentage reduction will apply over time.
A 2018 Leaf (40Kw) will give a range of 230 miles, but costs £25,000.
This perspective says it still doesn't make sense for me over a petrol car.
Still a great car for urban use, if your daily usage fits within its limitations.
Zap Map gives a better indication of the real life range of the cars.
https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/nissan-leaf-...
For me the 60 mile range (and getting less as I use it more) is no good unless I put a new battery in it, so boosting it back up to its original, which was 100 at brochure level. I think some people were getting 100 miles on the original models, with careful driving.
It's going to be a few years now before the 30Kw comes down to a sensible purchase price.
For any one wondering why Tesla disables supercharging on crashed cars this video is a good reminder Lithium-ion cells aren't and shoudlnt be treated like big AA batteries!!
https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q
In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??
The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.
There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.
https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q
In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??
The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.
There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 24th November 14:43
gangzoom said:
For any one wondering why Tesla disables supercharging on crashed cars this video is a good reminder Lithium-ion cells aren't and shoudlnt be treated like big AA batteries!!
https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q
In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??
The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.
There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.
All that shows is Rich rebuilds shouldnt be let near batteries again.https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q
In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??
The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.
There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.
No battery management unit, directly charging cells not enclosed in any way. Probably crash damaged cells too.
RobDickinson said:
gangzoom said:
For any one wondering why Tesla disables supercharging on crashed cars this video is a good reminder Lithium-ion cells aren't and shoudlnt be treated like big AA batteries!!
https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q
In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??
The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.
There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.
All that shows is Rich rebuilds shouldnt be let near batteries again.https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q
In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??
The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.
There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.
No battery management unit, directly charging cells not enclosed in any way. Probably crash damaged cells too.
But it’s not as if petrol isn’t combustible. A mechanic needs appropriate training when dealing with EVs and it’s not just Tesla that can do that.
Greg_D said:
DonkeyApple said:
Might be worth making contact with the Court of European Human Rights to establish what section fk buckets and koi come under?
fk bucket brilliant. My nomenclature of ‘filthy sex pond’ doesn’t come close... DonkeyApple said:
Global Warming assinated 4 of the largest koi in our pond last winter, so I’m forking our all the same running costs for just the two remaining ones and the silver one is a real prick.
some pond keepers heat their ponds keeping 6000 gallons outside warm with no insulation is a terrifying prospect.
my lot need to be sturdy, they're not getting spoilt, lol....
I'd quite like a koi pond, it's probably 25 years since I last built one. Would have to be smaller, the last one was about 20' x 10' x 5' and this house has a relatively small garden. I think you could probably improve the energy efficiency a lot with good design, especially if you did intend to heat it in winter. Things like ensuring that the pond itself and the filtration were well insulated, that any waterfalls or vegetable filters could be disconnected in winter, that the filter design is gravity fed with high volume/low pressure pumping on the clean side, etc. Hiding a large insulated sump somewhere would help stabilise water temperatures through the year, being able to cover the pond without excluding oxygen, etc.
pingu393 said:
Is the purpose of EV cars not to save the planet?
No doubt. However, I was tempted in to EV ownership by the low purchase/running costs of a second hand one. If I'm helping "save the planet", then that's a happy by-product. I'd certainly be causing more air pollution and CO2 emissions were I dailying in my E320 CDI still.otolith said:
I'd quite like a koi pond, it's probably 25 years since I last built one. Would have to be smaller, the last one was about 20' x 10' x 5' and this house has a relatively small garden. I think you could probably improve the energy efficiency a lot with good design, especially if you did intend to heat it in winter. Things like ensuring that the pond itself and the filtration were well insulated, that any waterfalls or vegetable filters could be disconnected in winter, that the filter design is gravity fed with high volume/low pressure pumping on the clean side, etc. Hiding a large insulated sump somewhere would help stabilise water temperatures through the year, being able to cover the pond without excluding oxygen, etc.
The primary mistake that I made was in not selling the koi when I bought the house. I broke the cardinal rule of listening to what the family wanted instead of doing what was right. The second mistake was in not clearing/ breaking the ice that covered it for about 3 months under the misapprehension that the shock waves would kill the fish. Made a similar mistake re the domestic heating last winter of listening to the wrong people. This winter the dial won’t be moving from 17. Inhabitants will be wearing sweaters and doors of unused rooms will be remaining closed.
DonkeyApple said:
otolith said:
I'd quite like a koi pond, it's probably 25 years since I last built one. Would have to be smaller, the last one was about 20' x 10' x 5' and this house has a relatively small garden. I think you could probably improve the energy efficiency a lot with good design, especially if you did intend to heat it in winter. Things like ensuring that the pond itself and the filtration were well insulated, that any waterfalls or vegetable filters could be disconnected in winter, that the filter design is gravity fed with high volume/low pressure pumping on the clean side, etc. Hiding a large insulated sump somewhere would help stabilise water temperatures through the year, being able to cover the pond without excluding oxygen, etc.
The primary mistake that I made was in not selling the koi when I bought the house. I broke the cardinal rule of listening to what the family wanted instead of doing what was right. The second mistake was in not clearing/ breaking the ice that covered it for about 3 months under the misapprehension that the shock waves would kill the fish. Made a similar mistake re the domestic heating last winter of listening to the wrong people. This winter the dial won’t be moving from 17. Inhabitants will be wearing sweaters and doors of unused rooms will be remaining closed.
I had the same problem with my Kio pond. Ice froze too thick to realistically keep it clear for any length of time. It killed 90% of the fish.
Edited by 98elise on Monday 26th November 20:36
98elise said:
Will you're kids be getting a lump of coal each at Christmas
I had the same problem with my Kio pond. Ice froze too thick to realistically keep it clear for any length of time. It killed 90% of the fish.
We have basically a plant pot with a solar pump in it in the garden. The boy bought two goldfish for a pound, and I then bought £20 of plants and snails and mussels and food to try to keep them alive. I had the same problem with my Kio pond. Ice froze too thick to realistically keep it clear for any length of time. It killed 90% of the fish.
The cats were seen taking an interest the second day, neither fish was seen afterwards.
The entire thing then pretty much froze solid for 2 months last winter.
Cleaned it out the following spring. All the mussels were dead, snails doing well. And to our great surprise the fish were still alive.
Evanivitch said:
You're missing step 1) tax gas. Gas is the cheapest way to currently heat a conventional home. The investment required to buy heat pump and adapt the home to use it efficiently is prohibitive at this time.
I disagree. After years of old fashioned electric radiators and a big log fire for heating I installed two heat pumps, five cassettes and one big console (radiator) two years ago. Total cost £10,000, which has resulted in a lower electricity bill overall (we live in the forest so all electric) and a saving of £600 on wood, plus the cost of the chimney sweep. And the "renewable" wood gets more expensive every year too. And no problems of dust everywhere. I reckon that the cost will be amortised well before 10 years are up. lowdrag said:
Evanivitch said:
You're missing step 1) tax gas. Gas is the cheapest way to currently heat a conventional home. The investment required to buy heat pump and adapt the home to use it efficiently is prohibitive at this time.
I disagree. After years of old fashioned electric radiators and a big log fire for heating I installed two heat pumps, five cassettes and one big console (radiator) two years ago. Total cost £10,000, which has resulted in a lower electricity bill overall (we live in the forest so all electric) and a saving of £600 on wood, plus the cost of the chimney sweep. And the "renewable" wood gets more expensive every year too. And no problems of dust everywhere. I reckon that the cost will be amortised well before 10 years are up. Response.. disagree, heat pumps are cheaper than my electricity and wood..
Conclusion.. apples are not the same as pears
Mr E said:
Genuinely fascinating.
So, if there’s no oxygen, goldfish switch to a respiration method that produces ethanol as a byproduct.
Bugger Spider-Man, I want this as my superpower.
So goldfish produce biofuel. I’ve plenty of goldfish in with the koi so I can probably apply for a grant that will offset the cost of the bloody koi. So, if there’s no oxygen, goldfish switch to a respiration method that produces ethanol as a byproduct.
Bugger Spider-Man, I want this as my superpower.
lowdrag said:
I disagree. After years of old fashioned electric radiators and a big log fire for heating I installed two heat pumps, five cassettes and one big console (radiator) two years ago. Total cost £10,000, which has resulted in a lower electricity bill overall (we live in the forest so all electric) and a saving of £600 on wood, plus the cost of the chimney sweep. And the "renewable" wood gets more expensive every year too. And no problems of dust everywhere. I reckon that the cost will be amortised well before 10 years are up.
I am off mains gas, and use 47kg gas cylinders. This is my first winter in the house and it’s rapidly becoming clear that it’s a fking expensive setup to run. I put a new gas boiler in shortly after moving in, and I am now thinking I missed a trick there and should have gone for a heat pump. Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff