Batteries dead after 5 years

Author
Discussion

M4cruiser

3,550 posts

149 months

Friday 23rd November 2018
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poing said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
M4cruiser said:
I have noticed this in my casual search for one. I'm being put off by the practicalities though, which I see like this:-

A 2012 Leaf (24Kw) is around £7,000 (was £6,000 a year ago) but a realistic range on a full charge is 60 miles.

A 2015 Leaf (30Kw) is around £12,000. The full-charge-range when new was about 160 miles, I guess a similar percentage reduction will apply over time.

A 2018 Leaf (40Kw) will give a range of 230 miles, but costs £25,000.

This perspective says it still doesn't make sense for me over a petrol car.
I don't want to make your calculations even worse, but a 30kw Leaf won't do 160 miles. More like 100 - 130 miles max.

Still a great car for urban use, if your daily usage fits within its limitations.
The 40kw also won't do anything like 230 miles, it's more like 150 miles in reality.

Zap Map gives a better indication of the real life range of the cars.
https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/nissan-leaf-...
Thank you for the link; for the newest model I was working on the brochure figure, which is obviously too optimistic!

For me the 60 mile range (and getting less as I use it more) is no good unless I put a new battery in it, so boosting it back up to its original, which was 100 at brochure level. I think some people were getting 100 miles on the original models, with careful driving.

It's going to be a few years now before the 30Kw comes down to a sensible purchase price.




Greg_D

6,542 posts

245 months

Friday 23rd November 2018
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DonkeyApple said:
Might be worth making contact with the Court of European Human Rights to establish what section fk buckets and koi come under? wink
fk bucket laughlaugh brilliant. My nomenclature of ‘filthy sex pond’ doesn’t come close...

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Friday 23rd November 2018
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Just tested the kona.

Here it has a 10 year unlimited milage battery warranty.

gangzoom

6,251 posts

214 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
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For any one wondering why Tesla disables supercharging on crashed cars this video is a good reminder Lithium-ion cells aren't and shoudlnt be treated like big AA batteries!!

https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q

In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??

The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.

There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.

Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 24th November 14:43

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
gangzoom said:
For any one wondering why Tesla disables supercharging on crashed cars this video is a good reminder Lithium-ion cells aren't and shoudlnt be treated like big AA batteries!!

https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q

In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??

The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.

There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.
All that shows is Rich rebuilds shouldnt be let near batteries again.
No battery management unit, directly charging cells not enclosed in any way. Probably crash damaged cells too.

Heres Johnny

7,175 posts

123 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
gangzoom said:
For any one wondering why Tesla disables supercharging on crashed cars this video is a good reminder Lithium-ion cells aren't and shoudlnt be treated like big AA batteries!!

https://youtu.be/WdDi1haA71Q

In the coming year am pretty sure mandate inspection/regulated repair of battery packs will take the place of emissions tests. Can you imagine the fireworks display when some idiot tires to put 100KW+ at a rapid charger into their cheap eBay special Tesla/iPace/Kona??

The good thing is with proper monitoring these packs will look after themselves but never the less the skills/knowldge needed to work on EV packs has little relation to what garages do day in day out at the moment.

There are already a small handful of EV specific independents appearing, and I suspect the ones these ones will stand in good place to profit on their experience as EV uptake developes and these cars get older.
All that shows is Rich rebuilds shouldnt be let near batteries again.
No battery management unit, directly charging cells not enclosed in any way. Probably crash damaged cells too.
I kind of agree, although Gangs point is that this can happen to crash damaged cells in the wrong hands

But it’s not as if petrol isn’t combustible. A mechanic needs appropriate training when dealing with EVs and it’s not just Tesla that can do that.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
Greg_D said:
DonkeyApple said:
Might be worth making contact with the Court of European Human Rights to establish what section fk buckets and koi come under? wink
fk bucket laughlaugh brilliant. My nomenclature of ‘filthy sex pond’ doesn’t come close...
Global Warming assinated 4 of the largest koi in our pond last winter, so I’m forking our all the same running costs for just the two remaining ones and the silver one is a real prick.

Greg_D

6,542 posts

245 months

Monday 26th November 2018
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Global Warming assinated 4 of the largest koi in our pond last winter, so I’m forking our all the same running costs for just the two remaining ones and the silver one is a real prick.
some pond keepers heat their ponds eek
keeping 6000 gallons outside warm with no insulation is a terrifying prospect.

my lot need to be sturdy, they're not getting spoilt, lol....

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 26th November 2018
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I'd quite like a koi pond, it's probably 25 years since I last built one. Would have to be smaller, the last one was about 20' x 10' x 5' and this house has a relatively small garden. I think you could probably improve the energy efficiency a lot with good design, especially if you did intend to heat it in winter. Things like ensuring that the pond itself and the filtration were well insulated, that any waterfalls or vegetable filters could be disconnected in winter, that the filter design is gravity fed with high volume/low pressure pumping on the clean side, etc. Hiding a large insulated sump somewhere would help stabilise water temperatures through the year, being able to cover the pond without excluding oxygen, etc.

ElectricSoup

8,202 posts

150 months

Monday 26th November 2018
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pingu393 said:
Is the purpose of EV cars not to save the planet?
No doubt. However, I was tempted in to EV ownership by the low purchase/running costs of a second hand one. If I'm helping "save the planet", then that's a happy by-product. I'd certainly be causing more air pollution and CO2 emissions were I dailying in my E320 CDI still.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Monday 26th November 2018
quotequote all
otolith said:
I'd quite like a koi pond, it's probably 25 years since I last built one. Would have to be smaller, the last one was about 20' x 10' x 5' and this house has a relatively small garden. I think you could probably improve the energy efficiency a lot with good design, especially if you did intend to heat it in winter. Things like ensuring that the pond itself and the filtration were well insulated, that any waterfalls or vegetable filters could be disconnected in winter, that the filter design is gravity fed with high volume/low pressure pumping on the clean side, etc. Hiding a large insulated sump somewhere would help stabilise water temperatures through the year, being able to cover the pond without excluding oxygen, etc.
The primary mistake that I made was in not selling the koi when I bought the house. I broke the cardinal rule of listening to what the family wanted instead of doing what was right. The second mistake was in not clearing/ breaking the ice that covered it for about 3 months under the misapprehension that the shock waves would kill the fish.

Made a similar mistake re the domestic heating last winter of listening to the wrong people. This winter the dial won’t be moving from 17. Inhabitants will be wearing sweaters and doors of unused rooms will be remaining closed.

98elise

26,376 posts

160 months

Monday 26th November 2018
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
otolith said:
I'd quite like a koi pond, it's probably 25 years since I last built one. Would have to be smaller, the last one was about 20' x 10' x 5' and this house has a relatively small garden. I think you could probably improve the energy efficiency a lot with good design, especially if you did intend to heat it in winter. Things like ensuring that the pond itself and the filtration were well insulated, that any waterfalls or vegetable filters could be disconnected in winter, that the filter design is gravity fed with high volume/low pressure pumping on the clean side, etc. Hiding a large insulated sump somewhere would help stabilise water temperatures through the year, being able to cover the pond without excluding oxygen, etc.
The primary mistake that I made was in not selling the koi when I bought the house. I broke the cardinal rule of listening to what the family wanted instead of doing what was right. The second mistake was in not clearing/ breaking the ice that covered it for about 3 months under the misapprehension that the shock waves would kill the fish.

Made a similar mistake re the domestic heating last winter of listening to the wrong people. This winter the dial won’t be moving from 17. Inhabitants will be wearing sweaters and doors of unused rooms will be remaining closed.
Will your kids be getting a lump of coal each at Christmas smile

I had the same problem with my Kio pond. Ice froze too thick to realistically keep it clear for any length of time. It killed 90% of the fish.

Edited by 98elise on Monday 26th November 20:36

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Monday 26th November 2018
quotequote all
98elise said:
Will you're kids be getting a lump of coal each at Christmas smile

.
Don’t be daft! The wood burner isn’t multifuel, that was an extra couple of hundred quid.

They can have a cedar log each as they smell more Christmassy than the oak and are, of course, cheaper. biggrin

Mr E

21,583 posts

258 months

Monday 26th November 2018
quotequote all
98elise said:
Will you're kids be getting a lump of coal each at Christmas smile

I had the same problem with my Kio pond. Ice froze too thick to realistically keep it clear for any length of time. It killed 90% of the fish.
We have basically a plant pot with a solar pump in it in the garden. The boy bought two goldfish for a pound, and I then bought £20 of plants and snails and mussels and food to try to keep them alive.

The cats were seen taking an interest the second day, neither fish was seen afterwards.

The entire thing then pretty much froze solid for 2 months last winter.

Cleaned it out the following spring. All the mussels were dead, snails doing well. And to our great surprise the fish were still alive.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 26th November 2018
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Mr E

21,583 posts

258 months

Monday 26th November 2018
quotequote all
Genuinely fascinating.
So, if there’s no oxygen, goldfish switch to a respiration method that produces ethanol as a byproduct.

Bugger Spider-Man, I want this as my superpower.

lowdrag

Original Poster:

12,869 posts

212 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
You're missing step 1) tax gas. Gas is the cheapest way to currently heat a conventional home. The investment required to buy heat pump and adapt the home to use it efficiently is prohibitive at this time.
I disagree. After years of old fashioned electric radiators and a big log fire for heating I installed two heat pumps, five cassettes and one big console (radiator) two years ago. Total cost £10,000, which has resulted in a lower electricity bill overall (we live in the forest so all electric) and a saving of £600 on wood, plus the cost of the chimney sweep. And the "renewable" wood gets more expensive every year too. And no problems of dust everywhere. I reckon that the cost will be amortised well before 10 years are up.

Heres Johnny

7,175 posts

123 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
Evanivitch said:
You're missing step 1) tax gas. Gas is the cheapest way to currently heat a conventional home. The investment required to buy heat pump and adapt the home to use it efficiently is prohibitive at this time.
I disagree. After years of old fashioned electric radiators and a big log fire for heating I installed two heat pumps, five cassettes and one big console (radiator) two years ago. Total cost £10,000, which has resulted in a lower electricity bill overall (we live in the forest so all electric) and a saving of £600 on wood, plus the cost of the chimney sweep. And the "renewable" wood gets more expensive every year too. And no problems of dust everywhere. I reckon that the cost will be amortised well before 10 years are up.
Gas is the cheapest...

Response.. disagree, heat pumps are cheaper than my electricity and wood..

Conclusion.. apples are not the same as pears


DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
quotequote all
Mr E said:
Genuinely fascinating.
So, if there’s no oxygen, goldfish switch to a respiration method that produces ethanol as a byproduct.

Bugger Spider-Man, I want this as my superpower.
So goldfish produce biofuel. I’ve plenty of goldfish in with the koi so I can probably apply for a grant that will offset the cost of the bloody koi. biggrin

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 27th November 2018
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
I disagree. After years of old fashioned electric radiators and a big log fire for heating I installed two heat pumps, five cassettes and one big console (radiator) two years ago. Total cost £10,000, which has resulted in a lower electricity bill overall (we live in the forest so all electric) and a saving of £600 on wood, plus the cost of the chimney sweep. And the "renewable" wood gets more expensive every year too. And no problems of dust everywhere. I reckon that the cost will be amortised well before 10 years are up.
I am off mains gas, and use 47kg gas cylinders. This is my first winter in the house and it’s rapidly becoming clear that it’s a fking expensive setup to run. I put a new gas boiler in shortly after moving in, and I am now thinking I missed a trick there and should have gone for a heat pump.