Audi e-Tron vs. Jaguar I-Pace

[white_goodman]

Just curious as to whether anyone has driven/ordered/owned either of these? I must admit to being a bit of an EV sceptic and despite having a lot of respect for what Tesla has achieved in bringing EV somewhat mainstream, I have absolutely no "want" for one. I would say that these are the first two EVs that I could genuinely see myself driving. They seem like viable alternatives to the Q5/Q8 or E-Pace/F-pace both in terms of practicality and price and with a more established dealer infrastructure should have better customer support than Tesla. I don't mind the i3 either but it is a bit of an "oddball" and expensive for a car of its size. So, would you consider either of these vehicles and which one would/did you go for and why?

[Wills2]

You'll get more answers in the EV section,

Owners thread on the ipace for a starter.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Jasper3.0]

So...

I am 200 or so miles into a lease (fleetprices one).

Why did I choose it? I was coming out of a PHEV lease and there was no obvious replacement in the CoCar scheme. We considered a Kona, but there were no real lease deals available, hence jumping on the ipace deal.

Car appears to be better screwed together than I thought it would be (first jag). Comparing it to the GTE I had before it is probably better put together. It is LOL fast at any speed. We have tried it on a number of chargers - Instavolt and Polar and it has charged fine. Not tried on EH yet, but will plan to avoid them. Planning first long journey next week, so we will see.

One thing that I have seen (since I have started looking) is the rapid growth of charging infrastructure. FastNed have even opened 150kw plus chargers in Sunderland today. So range anxiety is rapidly becoming a thing of the past (other than EH anxiety).

Vs the e-Tron? E-Tron is a parts bin special to a greater or lesser extent. For me it doesn’t look special enough and I wonder if the real life range will be much more than the ipace.

The only pros that I see to the e-Tron is that is an Audi quality (although I have seen reports from Norway of software failures) and the high speed charging.

The i3 was considered, but theoretical range was too low given the one I could access via the company car scheme.

If it had been a straight e-Tron / ipace choice at the time then the choice would have been harder.

[white_goodman]

Jasper3.0 said:

So...

I am 200 or so miles into a lease (fleetprices one).

Why did I choose it? I was coming out of a PHEV lease and there was no obvious replacement in the CoCar scheme. We considered a Kona, but there were no real lease deals available, hence jumping on the ipace deal.

Car appears to be better screwed together than I thought it would be (first jag). Comparing it to the GTE I had before it is probably better put together. It is LOL fast at any speed. We have tried it on a number of chargers - Instavolt and Polar and it has charged fine. Not tried on EH yet, but will plan to avoid them. Planning first long journey next week, so we will see.

One thing that I have seen (since I have started looking) is the rapid growth of charging infrastructure. FastNed have even opened 150kw plus chargers in Sunderland today. So range anxiety is rapidly becoming a thing of the past (other than EH anxiety).

Vs the e-Tron? E-Tron is a parts bin special to a greater or lesser extent. For me it doesn’t look special enough and I wonder if the real life range will be much more than the ipace.

The only pros that I see to the e-Tron is that is an Audi quality (although I have seen reports from Norway of software failures) and the high speed charging.

The i3 was considered, but theoretical range was too low given the one I could access via the company car scheme.

If it had been a straight e-Tron / ipace choice at the time then the choice would have been harder.

Thanks for that insight. Very interesting. I like the i-Pace but the one that I'm really looking forward to is the Audi e-Tron GT!

[Welshbeef]

Why did the mods move this what is a general gassing topic to a much narrower viewed EV subforum on a thread that is clearly very main stream.

?

[EddieSteadyGo]

Welshbeef said:

Why did the mods move this what is a general gassing topic to a much narrower viewed EV subforum on a thread that is clearly very main stream.

?

Presumably, because the OP is asking about the e-Tron and I-Pace, which are highly niche EV and which are probably of little interest to the mainstream.

[EddieSteadyGo]

white_goodman said:

Just curious as to whether anyone has driven/ordered/owned either of these? I must admit to being a bit of an EV sceptic and despite having a lot of respect for what Tesla has achieved in bringing EV somewhat mainstream, I have absolutely no "want" for one. I would say that these are the first two EVs that I could genuinely see myself driving. They seem like viable alternatives to the Q5/Q8 or E-Pace/F-pace both in terms of practicality and price and with a more established dealer infrastructure should have better customer support than Tesla. I don't mind the i3 either but it is a bit of an "oddball" and expensive for a car of its size. So, would you consider either of these vehicles and which one would/did you go for and why?

You sound like you are at an early stage in weighing up your options - being at the same point myself a while ago, I'd advise booking test drives with all of the EVs you mention and possibly one or two others as well. And preferably getting extended test drives too.

I know it can be a trite thing on PH to say to test drive a car, but with EVs they can take some adjustment to work out how they will fit into your life. And once you have tried a few across different days, you will likely either decide they aren't for you at this moment or you will actively start to search for the right deal.

And on that point, if you do decide to go for one, I would advise being flexible and picking the one which offers you the best deal rather than aiming for the ideal car.

To purchase, they are a chunk of money, and the tech will likely continue to evolve, so I'd advise for your first EV looking for a decent value lease deal. That way, you aren't going to be stuck with a £70k version of the iphone 4 when everyone only wants the iphone Xs.

[akadk]

I-PACE just won World Car of The Year

[white_goodman]

EddieSteadyGo said:

You sound like you are at an early stage in weighing up your options - being at the same point myself a while ago, I'd advise booking test drives with all of the EVs you mention and possibly one or two others as well. And preferably getting extended test drives too.

I know it can be a trite thing on PH to say to test drive a car, but with EVs they can take some adjustment to work out how they will fit into your life. And once you have tried a few across different days, you will likely either decide they aren't for you at this moment or you will actively start to search for the right deal.

And on that point, if you do decide to go for one, I would advise being flexible and picking the one which offers you the best deal rather than aiming for the ideal car.

To purchase, they are a chunk of money, and the tech will likely continue to evolve, so I'd advise for your first EV looking for a decent value lease deal. That way, you aren't going to be stuck with a £70k version of the iphone 4 when everyone only wants the iphone Xs.

That sounds like very sound advice. Did you lease your I-Pace and your Leaf?

[oop north]

I had an i3 for three years and 40k miles to last December. Really wanted another electric car but have a strong dislike for Tesla’s pricing shenanigans. Once I saw what the Audi and Merc leccy cars looked like (jolly boring and also not around until months after the iPace) I ordered an iPace in November - after testing at the jaguar art of performance event at Oulton Park. Arriving next week

[SWoll]

If you take a look at the EVEZY thread on here you'll see that I am waiting on an i-Pace to run alongside the i3 I currently have from them.

It's not cheap at £799 a month (£749 with referral code) but when you take into account it includes up to 15k miles per year (most leases offer around half that or in some cases even less), free charging, insurance, tyres, servicing, RFL etc. and you are only committing to a rolling 30 day rental the numbers stack up quite well in my view compared to any PCH/PCP deal I've seen and allow you to dip your toe into the EV world with no real risk.

They aren't currently taking any further orders at the minute due to popularity but I would expect that to change over the next couple of months.

The i3 is £399 a month, or £349 with a referral code.

[EddieSteadyGo]

white_goodman said:

That sounds like very sound advice. Did you lease your I-Pace and your Leaf?

Correct (although technically the last Leaf was on a PCP with a set RV, but it's pretty much the same difference).

I've had three Leafs, which we have used as our local run-around car, and the i-pace. I'm buying the current Leaf at the end of this month as it is at the end of the 2 years and it isn't expensive (£15.5k).

But I'm still wary of getting stuck with today "latest tech" which in a couple of years will likely seem old hat.

In terms of your potenial car, I'm not sure how many full price e-trons Audi will manage to sell, so I think there will be a good chance of getting an attractive 2 year lease on one of those.

[gangzoom]

EddieSteadyGo said:

But I'm still wary of getting stuck with today "latest tech" which in a couple of years will likely seem old hat.

I would say the exact opposite. A 2014 Tesla is more relevant today than any other car from 2014, infact any 2014 diesel is going to be worth next to nothing soon if all major cities introduce ULEZs.

Equally a brand new 2019 eTron is going to be much more in demand in 2029 than a 2019 diesel Q7. But Audi will still sell far more Q7s this year than eTrons.

The vast majority of car sales today are still combustion cars, those cars are going to be out of date much quicker.

Used prices of EVs reflect this, and to a degree 'self charging hybrids'. The general public is very slowly waking up to the concept of a world without combustion cars. What really is nuts today isn't spending £70k on an EV, but £70k on any combustion car, which people for some reason continue to do .

[EddieSteadyGo]

gangzoom said:

I would say the exact opposite. A 2014 Tesla is more relevant today than any other car from 2014, infact any 2014 diesel is going to be worth next to nothing soon if all major cities introduce ULEZs.

Equally a brand new 2019 eTron is going to be much more in demand in 2029 than a 2019 diesel Q7. But Audi will still sell far more Q7s this year than eTrons.

The vast majority of car sales today are still combustion cars, those cars are going to be out of date much quicker.

Used prices of EVs reflect this, and to a degree 'self charging hybrids'. The general public is very slowly waking up to the concept of a world without combustion cars. What really is nuts today isn't spending £70k on an EV, but £70k on any combustion car, which people for some reason continue to do .

We are at a strange point just at this moment. There are, relatively speaking, tiny numbers of EVs on the road, and I agree, people are starting to take more of an interest.

So the used prices have been increasing and are surprisingly strong at this moment.

But I think that is just a temporary situation, exacerbated by the production limits of new EVs at the moment. When we start to see proper volumes of the 2020 spec EVs on the road, they will revert to much lower values imo.

So for the current e-tron at £70k, personally, I wouldn't be prepared to put my money into one, although I would lease one if the deal was right.

[Witchfinder]

EddieSteadyGo said:

We are at a strange point just at this moment. There are, relatively speaking, tiny numbers of EVs on the road, and I agree, people are starting to take more of an interest.

So the used prices have been increasing and are surprisingly strong at this moment.

But I think that is just a temporary situation, exacerbated by the production limits of new EVs at the moment. When we start to see proper volumes of the 2020 spec EVs on the road, they will revert to much lower values imo.

Precisely. In recent times, you've had the bizarre situation where you could sell a 5 -year-old Tesla Model S for about as much as you paid for it. Demand currently exceeds supply, especially for reasonably priced EVs (those in the sub-40k range). That cannot continue, especially as the technology matures rapidly over the next five years, and supply starts to catch up.

[lost in espace]

Robert Llewellyn thinks that supply will not be increasing for some time, I suspect anyone with a Model 3 or ID Buzz reservation can do quite well out of it.

[gangzoom]

Witchfinder said:

Precisely. In recent times, you've had the bizarre situation where you could sell a 5 -year-old Tesla Model S for about as much as you paid for it. Demand currently exceeds supply, especially for reasonably priced EVs (those in the sub-40k range). That cannot continue, especially as the technology matures rapidly over the next five years, and supply starts to catch up.

Our Lexus 'self charging hybrid' appears to have almost stopped deprecating over the last 12 months, and Toyota/Lexus have no problems with supply. At 4 years old am sure I can achieve 55% what we paid for it in 2015 when it was brand new, which for a small saloon is outstanding residuals.

Come 2022 say your try to sell your £70k eTron for £35K (using the rule of 50% deprecation at 3 years), I suspect it will sell in minutes at that price. The cars that will drop in value over the next few years aren't EVs, its the high priced diesel which VAG group will still happily sell you today.

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 18th April 18:20

[dmsims]

Well the diesel depreciation has been ongoing

"Diesel Nigel" forgets to factor in the ever widening gap (to petrol/hybrid/EV)

[MaxSo]

One thing people comparing these cars may wish to consider is the rate at which each can be charged at 'ultra' rapid chargers.. I just posted this on another thread which may be of interest. Basically, it seems the e-tron can maintain a 150kW charge rate much better than the I-PACE. Probably of little immediate concern given the current small number of 150kW chargers.

MaxSo said:

i3 folks - I found this graph which nicely shows the charge rate you can expect on a 50kW rapid charger (it’s the orange line for the 120Ah).
.

And some others for various other cars. (These are all from Fastned, hence the references to 175kW fast chargers).

MaxSo said:

A few things I didn't realise before:

1. Some cars that can charge above 50kW only do so for the early part of the charge, and if the battery is at least 3/4 empty.

On the other hand, the e-tron seems to be capable of maintaining 150kW until 80%...



2. The current model Nissan Leaf appears to give up rapid charging after only 60%.

And one thing I did know but the graph corroborates is that the 120Ah i3 can maintain about 50kW charging until about 90%.

Edited by MaxSo on Saturday 20th April 08:40

[dmsims]

The I-pace is dreadful

and how many 100kw+ chargers are there ? (in the UK)