Model 3 UK orders.
Discussion
Fastlane said:
I don't think a few runs on a runway are the best way to judge a Porsche, or any sports car German or otherwise, for that matter. I have a 12 year old supercharged Ariel Atom that would be quicker than both of these on a runway for instance, but that doesn't make either the Model 3 or 911 badly engineered.
True but the aerial will be even more compromised and built for speed.here we are comparing a car that seats 5 + luggage + a bit more vs a car that seats 2 + a bit of luggage.
One of these cars is built for performance and it's not the Tesla.
When you look at the price it's even more comical. Usually with a 911 you will get a fantastic engine that will give it excellent perfomance and handling due to a low COG. The tesla has a low COG by design and its powertrain is better too.
jamoor said:
Well, no, it doesn’t. It tells the same story that is well known already. EVs have crazy torque and it’s all there from a standstill.It’s not surprising or shocking when the Model 3 beats loads of other cars.
jamoor said:
True but the aerial will be even more compromised and built for speed.
here we are comparing a car that seats 5 + luggage + a bit more vs a car that seats 2 + a bit of luggage.
One of these cars is built for performance and it's not the Tesla.
When you look at the price it's even more comical. Usually with a 911 you will get a fantastic engine that will give it excellent perfomance and handling due to a low COG. The tesla has a low COG by design and its powertrain is better too.
Do you really think many people considering 911s will be seriously considering a Model 3 as an alternative? here we are comparing a car that seats 5 + luggage + a bit more vs a car that seats 2 + a bit of luggage.
One of these cars is built for performance and it's not the Tesla.
When you look at the price it's even more comical. Usually with a 911 you will get a fantastic engine that will give it excellent perfomance and handling due to a low COG. The tesla has a low COG by design and its powertrain is better too.
I get that Teslas are very good at what they do, and probably by the time I come to replace my Jag there will be one that would meet my needs, but the attitude of some of the Tesla fanbois on here is enough to put me off!
Gojira said:
RobDickinson said:
Gojira said:
Do you really think many people considering 911s will be seriously considering a Model 3 as an alternative?
No one is suggesting that. jamoor said:
Gojira said:
RobDickinson said:
Gojira said:
Do you really think many people considering 911s will be seriously considering a Model 3 as an alternative?
No one is suggesting that. But are you going to answer my question?
Gojira said:
jamoor said:
Gojira said:
RobDickinson said:
Gojira said:
Do you really think many people considering 911s will be seriously considering a Model 3 as an alternative?
No one is suggesting that. But are you going to answer my question?
Comparing a 911 to a 330i is pointless as its ordinary for the 911 to thrash it.
But this is a valid comparison as its unusual.
jamoor said:
Gojira said:
jamoor said:
Gojira said:
RobDickinson said:
Gojira said:
Do you really think many people considering 911s will be seriously considering a Model 3 as an alternative?
No one is suggesting that. But are you going to answer my question?
Comparing a 911 to a 330i is pointless as its ordinary for the 911 to thrash it.
But this is a valid comparison as its unusual.
jamoor said:
I'm only comparing it that a compromised car designed for speed and performance gets beaten by ordinary looking 4 door saloon, that's the mockery of German engineering. They can't make an £80,000 sports car beat a saloon for loads less.
“A mockery of German engineering” is such an extreme hot take really, no offence.People buy 911s for a variety of reasons. There is also a good argument to be made for a car being as fast as it needs to be as a whole package. Being too fast, or raw, one could argue might compromise the experience. Not every 911 is built to be the fastest car around.
Your argument only really makes sense if Porsche were trying to beat every other car out there in outright acceleration. I’d argue that they aren’t, they’re selling a particular kind of experience for each 911 in their range, and as an aspirational marque and car model - a lifestyle.
Not taking anything away from a Tesla or a Model 3 but Porsche is a well heeled brand who knows their customers very well.
Edited by Durzel on Saturday 18th January 22:34
Durzel said:
jamoor said:
I'm only comparing it that a compromised car designed for speed and performance gets beaten by ordinary looking 4 door saloon, that's the mockery of German engineering. They can't make an £80,000 sports car beat a saloon for loads less.
“A mockery of German engineering” is such an extreme hot take really, no offence.People buy 911s for a variety of reasons. There is also a good argument to be made for a car being as fast as it needs to be as a whole package. Being too fast, or raw, one could argue might compromise the experience. Not every 911 is built to be the fastest car around.
Your argument only really makes sense if Porsche were trying to beat every other car out there in outright acceleration. I’d argue that they aren’t, they’re selling a particular kind of experience for each 911 in their range, and as an aspirational marque and car model - a lifestyle.
Not taking anything away from a Tesla or a Model 3 but Porsche is a well heeled brand who knows their customers very well.
Edited by Durzel on Saturday 18th January 22:34
Gojira said:
RobDickinson said:
The purpose built 2+2 car costing ear double the price should be better. Dont you agree?
Define better.Would you really claim that the only reason anyone buys a 911 is the 0-69 time?
Much like luxury is a MAJOR factor in the purchase of a Phantom and accelleration/handling is a minor consideration.
It used to be that the S class used to have technological features that were a generation ahead of its time, it would be interesting if Kia launched a car that had all the Toys that the S class did for a fraction of the price.
Durzel said:
“A mockery of German engineering” is such an extreme hot take really, no offence.
People buy 911s for a variety of reasons. There is also a good argument to be made for a car being as fast as it needs to be as a whole package. Being too fast, or raw, one could argue might compromise the experience. Not every 911 is built to be the fastest car around.
Your argument only really makes sense if Porsche were trying to beat every other car out there in outright acceleration. I’d argue that they aren’t, they’re selling a particular kind of experience for each 911 in their range, and as an aspirational marque and car model - a lifestyle.
Not taking anything away from a Tesla or a Model 3 but Porsche is a well heeled brand who knows their customers very well.
Couple of points worth considering:People buy 911s for a variety of reasons. There is also a good argument to be made for a car being as fast as it needs to be as a whole package. Being too fast, or raw, one could argue might compromise the experience. Not every 911 is built to be the fastest car around.
Your argument only really makes sense if Porsche were trying to beat every other car out there in outright acceleration. I’d argue that they aren’t, they’re selling a particular kind of experience for each 911 in their range, and as an aspirational marque and car model - a lifestyle.
Not taking anything away from a Tesla or a Model 3 but Porsche is a well heeled brand who knows their customers very well.
Edited by Durzel on Saturday 18th January 22:34
1) Unless it's just me being weirder than i thought (possible) people do 'cross shop' across obvious categories quite regularly. If I want something fast and interesting why wouldn't I consider an A45S, used 911 Carrera, Tesla Model 3 or a M2 Comp? Just because I don't need the space doesn't mean I'm always going to buy a two seater. Likewise with motorbikes, I have a particular bike now but might get an adventure bike for a bit to try that, then another, etc...?
2) I think EVs, and Teslas in particular will have a very real effect on the image of performance cars. The fact is, the majority of high performance cars are bought by people who have the money and want something flash to show off with. This is why 0-60 and Nurburgring times are so popular with manufacturers to sell cars. Now, if everyone knows that in acceleration terms your 100k+ car can't live with a Tesla family wagon on the motorway slip road, doesn't it start to look a bit silly? In a way, they become 'toys' like an MX5, GT86, or classic sports car - none of which are bought in vast numbers because your 'typical' buyer in this market is (i guess) a 35-55 year old who uses it for signalling to others about their success as much as they do a drivers car.
Just my thoughts. I've test driven a M3 myself and cannot really figure out what i think of it! I
Rob
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