Discussion
F20CN16 said:
There's a new carwow video out today with one of their range tests, where they drive until the cars run out. It does the e no favours. 113 miles for the Honda and 154 miles for the Mini. VW e UP - 162 miles. Zoe - 229 miles.
Impressive result for the Mini, just shows you the effect of less weight and better drag figures despite a similar battery size and higher power output than the Honda. 154 miles of mixed driving is a very useable range for many owners I'd have thought?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd2ArceiJd0
Out of all of them I'd still want the Honda by a country mile though.
SWoll said:
Impressive result for the Mini, just shows you the effect of less weight and better drag figures despite a similar battery size and higher power output than the Honda. 154 miles of mixed driving is a very useable range for many owners I'd have thought?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd2ArceiJd0
Out of all of them I'd still want the Honda by a country mile though.
Agreed, I love the little Honda. I hope some improvements in range are coming either by calibration, efficiency, a larger pack or all of the above. Early on in the video they compare the miles per kWh and the Honda is in last place.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd2ArceiJd0
Out of all of them I'd still want the Honda by a country mile though.
Edit: The Zoe is the heaviest car there, but it does have a 55kWh battery. I don't think the e is lagging behind due to weight. It seems to be quite inefficient.
Edited by F20CN16 on Friday 27th November 14:24
Smiljan said:
There a heaps on Autotrader for £25-26k.
This is probably the reason for crap lease deals. Values tanking. I had a look on autotrader yesterday and there are a lot aren’t there. Buyers market for sure and used bargains to be had.Edited by Smiljan on Saturday 28th November 12:28
It seems like it's a car that makes a huge amount of sense if you have a driveway, a second car, live in the suburbs and are willing to spend a lot on the basis of an emotional decision rather than a factual, pragmatic one.
Seeing as I'm getting mine on motability I can be a bit more relaxed about whether it works out or not, I can always give it back if the range is too small for wherever I end up living.
Seeing as I'm getting mine on motability I can be a bit more relaxed about whether it works out or not, I can always give it back if the range is too small for wherever I end up living.
leglessAlex said:
It seems like it's a car that makes a huge amount of sense if you have a driveway, a second car, live in the suburbs and are willing to spend a lot on the basis of an emotional decision rather than a factual, pragmatic one.
Seeing as I'm getting mine on motability I can be a bit more relaxed about whether it works out or not, I can always give it back if the range is too small for wherever I end up living.
Do you also get a wallbox charge point included with the car when it's on Motability, you do with the ZOE? Seeing as I'm getting mine on motability I can be a bit more relaxed about whether it works out or not, I can always give it back if the range is too small for wherever I end up living.
HTP99 said:
Do you also get a wallbox charge point included with the car when it's on Motability, you do with the ZOE?
Apparently I do! I had no idea. If only I had a house where I could put it 
I'm in a flat in London currently and I'll be moving in the next few months, so I won't be able to have one fitted free. That's a nice thing to have for some people though.
jjwilde said:
If they had put a decent battery in it it would be the top selling EV, but apparently they don't really want to sell EVs yet. As soon as they do you'll see it have a 55kwh battery.
Indeed, I think there is a lot of dancing around from the major OEMs, they are sweating their existing assets for all they are worth. There is still a lot of Diesel engine r+d that needs paying for yet.
It’ll be another 5 years or so before we start seeing the sales people really advocating electric cars.
It’d be interesting to see the commission schemes that manufacturers have in place for EVs/ICE.
Greg_D said:
Indeed, I think there is a lot of dancing around from the major OEMs, they are sweating their existing assets for all they are worth.
There is still a lot of Diesel engine r+d that needs paying for yet.
It’ll be another 5 years or so before we start seeing the sales people really advocating electric cars.
It’d be interesting to see the commission schemes that manufacturers have in place for EVs/ICE.
The point that jjwilde made is that with niche offerings like this, demand will be low enough not to have to force anything with commissions. There is still a lot of Diesel engine r+d that needs paying for yet.
It’ll be another 5 years or so before we start seeing the sales people really advocating electric cars.
It’d be interesting to see the commission schemes that manufacturers have in place for EVs/ICE.
Not to mention that with such a limited line up, you can just modulate it by limiting supply.
Your statement of RND is exactly why the eu has put out these monster fines, forcing traditional manufacturers to start selling them now rather than later.
I saw one today looked great.
Interesting thought about if they are deliberately keeping it underperforming at the moment. Makes sense, they do that with motorbikes every year. So next year can have 5bhp more etc. I suppose it allows them to monitor real-world performance and reliability for a few years, with low sales, and eventually they ramp it up by giving the performance people want.
Interesting thought about if they are deliberately keeping it underperforming at the moment. Makes sense, they do that with motorbikes every year. So next year can have 5bhp more etc. I suppose it allows them to monitor real-world performance and reliability for a few years, with low sales, and eventually they ramp it up by giving the performance people want.
The battery is small because they are being conservative with their first vehicle and first experience of the technology, and because they wanted the packs to be made in Japan.
The packs are made by Panasonic, the same as Tesla ones but at a different factory.
They already downgraded them from their original plan, reducing the available capacity. It's something like 28kWh, meaning there is a 7kWh buffer which is huge. Unlikely to see any premature degradation but doesn't help the range. Charging was originally going to be 80kW but seems to have been limited to about 45kW.
The packs are made by Panasonic, the same as Tesla ones but at a different factory.
They already downgraded them from their original plan, reducing the available capacity. It's something like 28kWh, meaning there is a 7kWh buffer which is huge. Unlikely to see any premature degradation but doesn't help the range. Charging was originally going to be 80kW but seems to have been limited to about 45kW.
Still a perfect car for the millions of drivers who can charge at home and only do limited daily mileages 99% of the time (school run, local shops, short commute).
Very tempted to pick one up ourselves as a second car once they are 2-3 years old and have depreciated quite a bit as the only small EV I would consider more interesting than the i3 we had for that reason until earlier this year. ID3, Corsa, mini, 208, Zoe hold no interest for me at all despite better range as 100 miles more than enough to only need charging once or twice a week on a granny charger.
Very tempted to pick one up ourselves as a second car once they are 2-3 years old and have depreciated quite a bit as the only small EV I would consider more interesting than the i3 we had for that reason until earlier this year. ID3, Corsa, mini, 208, Zoe hold no interest for me at all despite better range as 100 miles more than enough to only need charging once or twice a week on a granny charger.
Greg_D said:
It’d be interesting to see the commission schemes that manufacturers have in place for EVs/ICE.
As you'd probably imagine, Renault are massively behind EV and the dealers over the years have had very EV centric targets which are set by a Renault UK, which have filtered down from Renault France. In the past the whole dealer target and bonus payments have been based on EV registration targets, a dealer will have a registration target of X but a certain percentage of that target has to be ZOE, if that ZOE registration target isn't hit, no matter if the dealer has hit the overall target, then there no bonus payment which can for some dealers run into hundreds of thousands of £'s, hence why sometimes you can get ridiculous deals on ZOE, some dealers will punt them out at a loss.
A few years ago I was on a course, not EV related, there was an EV specialist there from a big dealer group, he was instructed to sell every ZOE using a certain margin which was over and above the normal margin, they aggressively advertised the cars and lost money on almost all that they sold as their EV target was so high, they would even sell a car with a 6m lead time at a loss, absolute madness.
Where I'm based we do very well with ZOE naturally without aggressive pricing, so well that we sometimes have more ZOE on order than any other car in the range.
CoolHands said:
I saw one today looked great.
Interesting thought about if they are deliberately keeping it underperforming at the moment. Makes sense, they do that with motorbikes every year. So next year can have 5bhp more etc. I suppose it allows them to monitor real-world performance and reliability for a few years, with low sales, and eventually they ramp it up by giving the performance people want.
I saw a lime green one on a very grey day in Stockport, it looks great in the flesh.Interesting thought about if they are deliberately keeping it underperforming at the moment. Makes sense, they do that with motorbikes every year. So next year can have 5bhp more etc. I suppose it allows them to monitor real-world performance and reliability for a few years, with low sales, and eventually they ramp it up by giving the performance people want.
HTP99 said:
As you'd probably imagine, Renault are massively behind EV and the dealers over the years have had very EV centric targets which are set by a Renault UK, which have filtered down from Renault France.
In the past the whole dealer target and bonus payments have been based on EV registration targets, a dealer will have a registration target of X but a certain percentage of that target has to be ZOE, if that ZOE registration target isn't hit, no matter if the dealer has hit the overall target, then there no bonus payment which can for some dealers run into hundreds of thousands of £'s, hence why sometimes you can get ridiculous deals on ZOE, some dealers will punt them out at a loss.
A few years ago I was on a course, not EV related, there was an EV specialist there from a big dealer group, he was instructed to sell every ZOE using a certain margin which was over and above the normal margin, they aggressively advertised the cars and lost money on almost all that they sold as their EV target was so high, they would even sell a car with a 6m lead time at a loss, absolute madness.
Where I'm based we do very well with ZOE naturally without aggressive pricing, so well that we sometimes have more ZOE on order than any other car in the range.
That’s interesting, thanks for sharing. In the past the whole dealer target and bonus payments have been based on EV registration targets, a dealer will have a registration target of X but a certain percentage of that target has to be ZOE, if that ZOE registration target isn't hit, no matter if the dealer has hit the overall target, then there no bonus payment which can for some dealers run into hundreds of thousands of £'s, hence why sometimes you can get ridiculous deals on ZOE, some dealers will punt them out at a loss.
A few years ago I was on a course, not EV related, there was an EV specialist there from a big dealer group, he was instructed to sell every ZOE using a certain margin which was over and above the normal margin, they aggressively advertised the cars and lost money on almost all that they sold as their EV target was so high, they would even sell a car with a 6m lead time at a loss, absolute madness.
Where I'm based we do very well with ZOE naturally without aggressive pricing, so well that we sometimes have more ZOE on order than any other car in the range.
It’s a fact that if you don’t motivate the sales staff to sell them, they will continue to be a curio in the corner of the lot...
SWoll said:
Still a perfect car for the millions of drivers who can charge at home and only do limited daily mileages 99% of the time (school run, local shops, short commute).
Very tempted to pick one up ourselves as a second car once they are 2-3 years old and have depreciated quite a bit as the only small EV I would consider more interesting than the i3 we had for that reason until earlier this year. ID3, Corsa, mini, 208, Zoe hold no interest for me at all despite better range as 100 miles more than enough to only need charging once or twice a week on a granny charger.
I have had a look at one and I like it. As far as I am concerned it is down to purchase price and range.Very tempted to pick one up ourselves as a second car once they are 2-3 years old and have depreciated quite a bit as the only small EV I would consider more interesting than the i3 we had for that reason until earlier this year. ID3, Corsa, mini, 208, Zoe hold no interest for me at all despite better range as 100 miles more than enough to only need charging once or twice a week on a granny charger.
One of Honda's main customer base are pensioners who buy the Jazz by the bucket load. They do not go in for PCP's and want to own the car outright. I think the E is overpriced. (as confirmed by the discounts that are available.)
I completey agree that 95% of the time the Honda E will be fit for purpose. However these customers have more time on their hands and like to go to visit freinds which may involve a 70 mile trip from London to the coast. On arrival there will be nowhere to plug the vehicle in because the freinds probably reside in a retirement appartment. They are not likely to want to stop and charge the car on the outwood or return route so this car will not work for them.
I have spoken to more than one Honda dealer and they admit that real world range is 105 miles, going down to about 80 miles in the winter.
So whilst I really like the car it would not work for thousands like me who only have one car.
When the charging infrastructure and range of the vehicle improves I will look again.
For those of you that have the luxury of a second car it kind of misses the point. If you are going to pollute by using your petrol or diesel car, why bother with an E anyway?
I understand the comments made here as to why Honda went this route. The E is probably a showcase for them as to what they can achieve and what we will probably see in the forthcoming electric Civic. Give me more range and an affordable price and I will join the E revolution.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff