EV sales in UK fall for 1st time

[hyphen]

LasseV said:

bigdog3 said:

There are enough ways of attacking the ICE car owner to make a ban unnecessary. ICE will be simply become impractical and expensive. Death by a thousand cuts is an effective strategy.

Nope. ICE cars are so competitive that they will sell well next decade or so ...

ages to go

[Witchfinder]

LasseV said:

Nope. ICE cars are so competitive that they will sell well next decade or so even tho they are heavily taxed. Petrol cars will never lose to battery cars, they still have so much problems. High purchasing costs is one big problem. Hydrogen cars will kill ICE cars eventually, it just takes some time.

There's so much wrong with this, I don't know where to begin.

As EV sales accelerate, ICE sales will crash as fear of obsolescence takes hold. It's a self perpetuating cycle. The only thing that'll hold it back is external drag factors like limited supply.

|https://thumbsnap.com/WgdovIvj[/url]

Hydrogen for cars? Don't make me laugh.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/11/hydrogen-fuel...

[coetzeeh]

Witchfinder said:

There's so much wrong with this, I don't know where to begin.

As EV sales accelerate, ICE sales will crash as fear of obsolescence takes hold. It's a self perpetuating cycle. The only thing that'll hold it back is external drag factors like limited supply.

|https://thumbsnap.com/WgdovIvj[/url]

Hydrogen for cars? Don't make me laugh.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/11/hydrogen-fuel...

not sure where Shell are going with this - from a separate thread: 100 hydrogen refueling stations in California and 400 in Germany.

https://www.shell.co.uk/make-the-future/cleaner-en...

[hyphen]

coetzeeh said:

not sure where Shell are going with this - from a separate thread: 100 hydrogen refueling stations in California and 400 in Germany.

https://www.shell.co.uk/make-the-future/cleaner-en...

Germany as country really wants Hydrogen, as a energy source, to succeed and lot of projects on way. Spending a lot on research too.

[chandrew]

The European Alternative Fuels Observatory site is useful if you want to understand both car sales and models for European countries. As you'll see there is a big difference between countries, especially in terms of which cars sell the most.

https://www.eafo.eu/vehicles-and-fleet/m1#

[sjg]

coetzeeh said:

not sure where Shell are going with this - from a separate thread: 100 hydrogen refueling stations in California and 400 in Germany.

https://www.shell.co.uk/make-the-future/cleaner-en...

Why could a company that sells expensive liquid fuel from thousands of forecourts have an interest in a technology that involves selling drivers a different expensive liquid fuel? It's a mystery!

They're backing any horse in the race - Shell also acquired NewMotion (who do EV charging for businesses, and do card-based access for hundreds of thousands of public EV points in Europe) a couple of years ago, and is quickly building out their own branded network of EV charging on their forecourts. They have some arrangement going with Ionity too to put in their superfast charging on key motorway/highway forecourts too.

[HalcyonRichard]

sjg said:

They have some arrangement going with Ionity too to put in their superfast charging on key motorway/highway forecourts too.

That sounds interesting. Are any details available - they usually keep that kind of stuff under their hat. I was always interested in how they would overcome the EH secretive monopoly.

[sjg]

Just saw it mentioned in the PR for their first forecourt 150kw charger - https://www.shell.co.uk/media/2019-media-releases/...

"Following an agreement with IONITY, Shell will also offer super-fast 350kW charging points across ten European countries, starting with 80 of Shell’s biggest highway stations, allowing drivers to travel long distances with confidence."

Found this from last year about it: https://www.shell.co.uk/media/2018-media-releases/...

[jjwilde]

Hydrogen

It's not going to happen. There is a reason they get called 'fool cells'.

Why won't this nonsense die? If you're going from the 2011 top gear episode where James May said they were the future he's since said he was wrong and he now owns an EV.

[HalcyonRichard]

sjg said:

Just saw it mentioned in the PR for their first forecourt 150kw charger - https://www.shell.co.uk/media/2019-media-releases/...

"Following an agreement with IONITY, Shell will also offer super-fast 350kW charging points across ten European countries, starting with 80 of Shell’s biggest highway stations, allowing drivers to travel long distances with confidence."

Found this from last year about it: https://www.shell.co.uk/media/2018-media-releases/...

Thanks. That is looking good. Slowly things are getting better.

[T-195]

jjwilde said:

Hydrogen

Yes, what exactly is wrong with Petrol ?

[kambites]

hyphen said:

Obviously a lot of it comes down to legislation and taxation but that looks pretty plausible to me for the natural switch over rate with current subsidies. Six years is only one, or maybe one and a half, model cycles from now. Give it another cycle (so 2030ish) and I'd expect the EV slice to be the single biggest in that chart, although probably still not a majority.

Governments could obviously choose to accelerate that significantly if they want to.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 8th August 16:51

[hyphen]

jjwilde said:

Hydrogen

It's not going to happen. There is a reason they get called 'fool cells'.

Why won't this nonsense die? If you're going from the 2011 top gear episode where James May said they were the future he's since said he was wrong and he now owns an EV.

It's already happened. Shell opened a Hydrogen refuelling station at Cobham services in 2017 (Hydrogen conjured up on site) and another on the M40 Beaconsfield.

Four more have been confirmed as funded by Shell & ITM Power- Gatwick is under construction, Derby next, then a further 2 in London.

Edited by hyphen on Thursday 8th August 17:14

[jjwilde]

hyphen said:

It's already happened. Shell opened a Hydrogen refuelling station at Cobham services in 2017 (Hydrogen conjured up on site) and another on the M40 Beaconsfield.

Four more have been confirmed as funded by Shell & ITM Power- Gatwick is under construction, Derby next, then a further 2 in London.

Edited by hyphen on Thursday 8th August 17:14

And they will just close down like the ones in Norway did (after an explosion). Do you really want to pay £10 a gallon and have a stty inefficient slow car which requires insane maintenance?

[bigdog3]

hyphen said:

It's already happened. Shell opened a Hydrogen refuelling station at Cobham services in 2017 (Hydrogen conjured up on site) and another on the M40 Beaconsfield.

Four more have been confirmed as funded by Shell & ITM Power- Gatwick is under construction, Derby next, then a further 2 in London.

"18 Advantages and Disadvantages of Hydrogen Fuel Cells"

https://futureofworking.com/10-advantages-and-disa...

[sjg]

If you think EV charging apps are a faff, just try the compulsory registration and training required to be allowed to fill your car from a H2 station.

I think Hydrogen has a place, but it's not for powering passenger cars.

[hyphen]

jjwilde said:

And they will just close down like the ones in Norway did (after an explosion). Do you really want to pay £10 a gallon and have a stty inefficient slow car which requires insane maintenance?

No big loss to Shell if they do, there are being built with 'free money'. (EU/UK research bodies)

But countries like Japan are still heavily committed, as is the state California.

Edited by hyphen on Thursday 8th August 17:34

[Dave Hedgehog]

sjg said:

coetzeeh said:

not sure where Shell are going with this - from a separate thread: 100 hydrogen refueling stations in California and 400 in Germany.

https://www.shell.co.uk/make-the-future/cleaner-en...

Why could a company that sells expensive liquid fuel from thousands of forecourts have an interest in a technology that involves selling drivers a different expensive liquid fuel? It's a mystery!

They're backing any horse in the race - Shell also acquired NewMotion (who do EV charging for businesses, and do card-based access for hundreds of thousands of public EV points in Europe) a couple of years ago, and is quickly building out their own branded network of EV charging on their forecourts. They have some arrangement going with Ionity too to put in their superfast charging on key motorway/highway forecourts too.

Made worse by getting less energy out of the hydrogen then you put in to make it and that 95% of current hydrogen comes from fossil fuels lol

[jjwilde]

hyphen said:

No big loss to Shell if they do, there are being built with 'free money'. (EU/UK research bodies)

Edited by hyphen on Thursday 8th August 17:34

That is sadly very true. Also see the crazy invalid carriage hydrogen powered scam car from Wales: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riversimple

They raised £750k on a fundraising site and got £2million from some EU fund. Everyone working there must know it's a scam yet it continues to drunkenly march on. They car has been 'almost ready' for something like 8 years.

[V10 SPM]

jjwilde said:

hyphen said:

No big loss to Shell if they do, there are being built with 'free money'. (EU/UK research bodies)

Edited by hyphen on Thursday 8th August 17:34

That is sadly very true. Also see the crazy invalid carriage hydrogen powered scam car from Wales: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riversimple

They raised £750k on a fundraising site and got £2million from some EU fund. Everyone working there must know it's a scam yet it continues to drunkenly march on. They car has been 'almost ready' for something like 8 years.

Is Nikola Motors a scam too?
https://nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-laun...