EV sales in UK fall for 1st time
Discussion
V10 SPM said:
Is Nikola Motors a scam too?
https://nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-laun...
Well... would you invest in that? Do you know their history? You might want to google it.https://nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-laun...
July 2019 EV sales in US lower than July 2018 reported.
https://insideevs.com/news/363473/july-2019-ev-sal...
https://insideevs.com/news/363473/july-2019-ev-sal...
jjwilde said:
Hydrogen 
It's not going to happen. There is a reason they get called 'fool cells'.
Why won't this nonsense die? If you're going from the 2011 top gear episode where James May said they were the future he's since said he was wrong and he now owns an EV.
That's the future, you liked it or not. Simply put, battery car is a bad idea and technology is lacking. Worst part is that there is not going to be a technological breakthrough in a battery tech. Fuel cell technology is opposite, it has almost unlimited potential and technology is advancing fast.It's not going to happen. There is a reason they get called 'fool cells'.
Why won't this nonsense die? If you're going from the 2011 top gear episode where James May said they were the future he's since said he was wrong and he now owns an EV.
Battery-EV's are crazy expensive after tax relief are gone and when car companies are trying to make some profit. Worst case scenario is that batteries are going to be a more expensive than now, because there is more demand (for raw material) than supply. We are not going to get reasonable priced BEV's in close future, i'm afraid.
At the moment hybrids are way to go for most people.
LasseV said:
Worst part is that there is not going to be a technological breakthrough in a battery tech. Fuel cell technology is opposite, it has almost unlimited potential and technology is advancing fast.
Fuel cell was invented by Sir William Grove in 1838. It's taken 181 years of development to reach where we are today, indicating that fuel cell technology has encountered big challenges along the way. Expecting those to be resolved in the next few years is ambitious to say the least 
LasseV said:
That's the future, you liked it or not. Simply put, battery car is a bad idea and technology is lacking. Worst part is that there is not going to be a technological breakthrough in a battery tech. Fuel cell technology is opposite, it has almost unlimited potential and technology is advancing fast.
Battery-EV's are crazy expensive after tax relief are gone and when car companies are trying to make some profit.
How much do you think a hydrogen car costs to make and run? How do you think hydrogen is made? What do you think the efficiency of hydrogen vehicles is? Why do you think scientists call them 'fool cells'?Battery-EV's are crazy expensive after tax relief are gone and when car companies are trying to make some profit.
bigdog3 said:
LasseV said:
Worst part is that there is not going to be a technological breakthrough in a battery tech. Fuel cell technology is opposite, it has almost unlimited potential and technology is advancing fast.
Fuel cell was invented by Sir William Grove in 1838. It's taken 181 years of development to reach where we are today, indicating that fuel cell technology has encountered big challenges along the way. Expecting those to be resolved in the next few years is ambitious to say the least Fuel cells and batteries are complementary technologies and not just competing. They both take electricity and transport it to allow an electric motor to provide the propulsion. They just have different pros and cons.
A fuel cell is best when it is producing constant power so works well as a range extender, still needs batteries just less of them. They scale well so can be much more effective than batteries above 100kW of average power output. A car only needs an average of 25-35kW so a fuel cell is too complex for the benefit.
the larger the vehicle the more difficult a pure BEV is, so for trucks, fuel cells might be a more effective solution. For most cars BEVs will be easier and cheaper.
A fuel cell is best when it is producing constant power so works well as a range extender, still needs batteries just less of them. They scale well so can be much more effective than batteries above 100kW of average power output. A car only needs an average of 25-35kW so a fuel cell is too complex for the benefit.
the larger the vehicle the more difficult a pure BEV is, so for trucks, fuel cells might be a more effective solution. For most cars BEVs will be easier and cheaper.
V10 SPM said:
The battery was invented by Alessandro Volta in 1800. It's taken 219 years of development to reach where we are today, indicating that battery technology has encountered big challenges along the way. Expecting those to be resolved in the next few years is ambitious to say the least.
On Jeremy Vine Friday last week there was a discussion point re charge points where by car park full people needing to park so they park in EV charge points yet have ICE.
Or car park full EV finished charging but cannot move it to an empty space as car park full. As such in most instances the chargers get one use a day.
One person called in stating she had a 100 mile each way commute her car does 120miles so has to charge to get home. Well when she bought there was enough chargers for it not to be a problem but now it’s always full and recently there have been queues 4-5 cars before her so rather than getting home 6pm it’s been 9-10pm. She was livid and-tried to justify queue jumping.
One time an ICE was parking up in the EV charge point just as she arrived. She challenged the ICE and the response was the car park is full ice checked with the car park operators and in these circumstances we can park in EV. She said to her go to another car park - response unlucky they are all full, actually I’m not sure where your going to find any sport to park in today it’s chocka. She instead blocked her in the spot and got a parking fine which she refuses to pay.
Or car park full EV finished charging but cannot move it to an empty space as car park full. As such in most instances the chargers get one use a day.
One person called in stating she had a 100 mile each way commute her car does 120miles so has to charge to get home. Well when she bought there was enough chargers for it not to be a problem but now it’s always full and recently there have been queues 4-5 cars before her so rather than getting home 6pm it’s been 9-10pm. She was livid and-tried to justify queue jumping.
One time an ICE was parking up in the EV charge point just as she arrived. She challenged the ICE and the response was the car park is full ice checked with the car park operators and in these circumstances we can park in EV. She said to her go to another car park - response unlucky they are all full, actually I’m not sure where your going to find any sport to park in today it’s chocka. She instead blocked her in the spot and got a parking fine which she refuses to pay.
cossey said:
Fuel cells and batteries are complementary technologies and not just competing. They both take electricity and transport it to allow an electric motor to provide the propulsion. They just have different pros and cons.
A fuel cell is best when it is producing constant power so works well as a range extender, still needs batteries just less of them. They scale well so can be much more effective than batteries above 100kW of average power output. A car only needs an average of 25-35kW so a fuel cell is too complex for the benefit.
the larger the vehicle the more difficult a pure BEV is, so for trucks, fuel cells might be a more effective solution. For most cars BEVs will be easier and cheaper.
Thanks - good to read informed comment. Do you have any purchase and operating cost comparisons across the wide range of average power demand ?A fuel cell is best when it is producing constant power so works well as a range extender, still needs batteries just less of them. They scale well so can be much more effective than batteries above 100kW of average power output. A car only needs an average of 25-35kW so a fuel cell is too complex for the benefit.
the larger the vehicle the more difficult a pure BEV is, so for trucks, fuel cells might be a more effective solution. For most cars BEVs will be easier and cheaper.
Welshbeef said:
On Jeremy Vine Friday last week there was a discussion point re charge points where by car park full people needing to park so they park in EV charge points yet have ICE.
Or car park full EV finished charging but cannot move it to an empty space as car park full. As such in most instances the chargers get one use a day.
One person called in stating she had a 100 mile each way commute her car does 120miles so has to charge to get home. Well when she bought there was enough chargers for it not to be a problem but now it’s always full and recently there have been queues 4-5 cars before her so rather than getting home 6pm it’s been 9-10pm. She was livid and-tried to justify queue jumping.
One time an ICE was parking up in the EV charge point just as she arrived. She challenged the ICE and the response was the car park is full ice checked with the car park operators and in these circumstances we can park in EV. She said to her go to another car park - response unlucky they are all full, actually I’m not sure where your going to find any sport to park in today it’s chocka. She instead blocked her in the spot and got a parking fine which she refuses to pay.
Just teething problems like yesterday's national grid failure - nothing to worry about Or car park full EV finished charging but cannot move it to an empty space as car park full. As such in most instances the chargers get one use a day.
One person called in stating she had a 100 mile each way commute her car does 120miles so has to charge to get home. Well when she bought there was enough chargers for it not to be a problem but now it’s always full and recently there have been queues 4-5 cars before her so rather than getting home 6pm it’s been 9-10pm. She was livid and-tried to justify queue jumping.
One time an ICE was parking up in the EV charge point just as she arrived. She challenged the ICE and the response was the car park is full ice checked with the car park operators and in these circumstances we can park in EV. She said to her go to another car park - response unlucky they are all full, actually I’m not sure where your going to find any sport to park in today it’s chocka. She instead blocked her in the spot and got a parking fine which she refuses to pay.
cossey said:
Fuel cells and batteries are complementary technologies and not just competing. They both take electricity and transport it to allow an electric motor to provide the propulsion. They just have different pros and cons.
A fuel cell is best when it is producing constant power so works well as a range extender, still needs batteries just less of them. They scale well so can be much more effective than batteries above 100kW of average power output. A car only needs an average of 25-35kW so a fuel cell is too complex for the benefit.
the larger the vehicle the more difficult a pure BEV is, so for trucks, fuel cells might be a more effective solution. For most cars BEVs will be easier and cheaper.
I agree.A fuel cell is best when it is producing constant power so works well as a range extender, still needs batteries just less of them. They scale well so can be much more effective than batteries above 100kW of average power output. A car only needs an average of 25-35kW so a fuel cell is too complex for the benefit.
the larger the vehicle the more difficult a pure BEV is, so for trucks, fuel cells might be a more effective solution. For most cars BEVs will be easier and cheaper.
I think BEV will be the dominant for private vehicle and LGV, and maybe some short range HGV services. But hydrogen will have it's uses.
However, for a hydrogen economy to be part of the low emissions future we need to create a significant energy surplus (due to known inefficiencies of hydrogen generation) which we just don't have at this time. It'll be interesting to see how this can be managed.
Welshbeef said:
On Jeremy Vine Friday last week there was a discussion point re charge points where by car park full people needing to park so they park in EV charge points yet have ICE.
Or car park full EV finished charging but cannot move it to an empty space as car park full. As such in most instances the chargers get one use a day.
One person called in stating she had a 100 mile each way commute her car does 120miles so has to charge to get home. Well when she bought there was enough chargers for it not to be a problem but now it’s always full and recently there have been queues 4-5 cars before her so rather than getting home 6pm it’s been 9-10pm. She was livid and-tried to justify queue jumping.
One time an ICE was parking up in the EV charge point just as she arrived. She challenged the ICE and the response was the car park is full ice checked with the car park operators and in these circumstances we can park in EV. She said to her go to another car park - response unlucky they are all full, actually I’m not sure where your going to find any sport to park in today it’s chocka. She instead blocked her in the spot and got a parking fine which she refuses to pay.
I would argue that an electric car isn't right for her currently; I sell EV's and given the current infrastructure when it comes to charging, if someone came in to me to look at a ZOE and they had a 200 mile round trip daily commute and didnt have a guaranteed charging point at their destination I would seriously question whether at this stage of EV development and the current charging infrastructure whether the car was right for her. Or car park full EV finished charging but cannot move it to an empty space as car park full. As such in most instances the chargers get one use a day.
One person called in stating she had a 100 mile each way commute her car does 120miles so has to charge to get home. Well when she bought there was enough chargers for it not to be a problem but now it’s always full and recently there have been queues 4-5 cars before her so rather than getting home 6pm it’s been 9-10pm. She was livid and-tried to justify queue jumping.
One time an ICE was parking up in the EV charge point just as she arrived. She challenged the ICE and the response was the car park is full ice checked with the car park operators and in these circumstances we can park in EV. She said to her go to another car park - response unlucky they are all full, actually I’m not sure where your going to find any sport to park in today it’s chocka. She instead blocked her in the spot and got a parking fine which she refuses to pay.
HTP99 said:
I would argue that an electric car isn't right for her currently; I sell EV's and given the current infrastructure when it comes to charging, if someone came in to me to look at a ZOE and they had a 200 mile round trip daily commute and didnt have a guaranteed charging point at their destination I would seriously question whether at this stage of EV development and the current charging infrastructure whether the car was right for her.
Doesn’t the new VW ID3 62kwh has 360odd Miles meet the requirement?https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.carmagazine.co....
I’m not ready for silence when driving no gears - E63S instead yes please or C63 or anything brum brum
Welshbeef said:
Doesn’t the new VW ID3 62kwh has 360odd Miles meet the requirement?
As a rule of thumb, about 3.5 miles per kWh is reasonable. It's at the very edge of her range, so a cold snap or headwind and she's probably not making it without a charge.Just needs to ask her employer for a 3 pin socket at work...
Evanivitch said:
As a rule of thumb, about 3.5 miles per kWh is reasonable. It's at the very edge of her range, so a cold snap or headwind and she's probably not making it without a charge.
Just needs to ask her employer for a 3 pin socket at work...
Given she’s parking in public car parks I’d wager no capacity in the work car park. Just needs to ask her employer for a 3 pin socket at work...
Heck since early 1990’s fewer car park spaces were required than office capacity by a huge range so even if every spot was charge most staff would be parking elsewhere
Welshbeef said:
How many EV owners were stranded yesterday with the national grid out of action???
none, they have batteries, and when i get my solar array and power wall i believe i can use the car to power the house as well 
how many people where stranded by the petrol tanker strikes?
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