Plugin hybrids - electrical only range?

[TheAlastair34]

Shrimpvende said:

Interesting to read these replies (and sorry for slight thread hijack)

I'm looking at a RRS P400e currently on good lease deals. I live 6 miles from work, and have read that it has a real world electric only range of about 20 miles. I'm guessing that in pure EV mode I should comfortably make it to work and back without needing the petrol motor at all, unless I need to floor it on a slip road or similar.

The first 2/3 miles of my commute are 40mph limit and a bit of queuing, then onto an NSL dual carriageway for about 3 miles where realistically I'd want to be doing 70-80, then bumper to bumper for the last mile or two. Does this sound reasonable to do on battery only, twice a day?

just spent the weekend in a new RRS P400e

25 miles real world range on battery, anything above that range you will see 25mpg.

it went ok to be fair for a big car, regards the motor kicking in under load im not sure excatly when it does it and when it wont to be fair i was quite hard to tell

[anonymous-user]

RicksAlfas said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

The difference with the Volt compared to many other PHEVs is that it is ostensibly an EV. Proper battery pack that is sized to minimise degradation and has proper thermal management, proper motor that provides all the motive power, it just has an engine to keep you going on longer trips. The ICE never drives the wheels (except in extreme power demand cases, though I have never been able to confirm that).

That's interesting, I didn't know that. The ICE is a big range extender on them?

The ICE drives the wheels directly (mechanically linked) at speeds where it is an advantage to do that in terms of overall efficiency, but only when the engine is running, ie the SoC has fallen and the ReX has already cut it. ie once it's running, and there is a sensible road speed, it's far better to then drive the vehicle directly with the engine, rather than via a second stage of energy conversion. To enable this the Volt has a clever epicyclic transmission that can use the traction motor to "hold" one side of the gears whilst the engine spins the other side. In that way if can act both as a sort of CVT, but also apply direct mechanical torque to the driving wheels across a range of speeds (around 40 to 80 mph) whilst running the engine at a peak efficiency point and charging the battery with the generator attached to the engines flywheel

[redneckLT]

How about MINI Countryman PHEV? MINI says they are fitting new 10 kWh battery from July. 26 miles EV range WLTP. I am considering buying one for my wife. 20 mile commute each way, no charging at work unfortunately. Should be fairly economical.

Also have a look at KIA Niro, Hyundai Kona and Ionic - all PHEV. When I spoke to the dealer - test drives available soon with deliveries next month. My wife wife does not like the looks though.

[Merry]

Max_Torque said:

The ICE drives the wheels directly (mechanically linked) at speeds where it is an advantage to do that in terms of overall efficiency, but only when the engine is running, ie the SoC has fallen and the ReX has already cut it. ie once it's running, and there is a sensible road speed, it's far better to then drive the vehicle directly with the engine, rather than via a second stage of energy conversion. To enable this the Volt has a clever epicyclic transmission that can use the traction motor to "hold" one side of the gears whilst the engine spins the other side. In that way if can act both as a sort of CVT, but also apply direct mechanical torque to the driving wheels across a range of speeds (around 40 to 80 mph) whilst running the engine at a peak efficiency point and charging the battery with the generator attached to the engines flywheel

Sounds well thought out. I was dead set on getting one, but they forgot to fit a bench rear seat, so it only has 4 seats. This unfortunately was a deal breaker for the Mrs

[ElectricSoup]

redneckLT said:

How about MINI Countryman PHEV? MINI says they are fitting new 10 kWh battery from July. 26 miles EV range WLTP. I am considering buying one for my wife. 20 mile commute each way, no charging at work unfortunately. Should be fairly economical.

Also have a look at KIA Niro, Hyundai Kona and Ionic - all PHEV. When I spoke to the dealer - test drives available soon with deliveries next month. My wife wife does not like the looks though.

Aye there's a BMW 2 Series MPV PHEV also, same platform as the Countryman.

[ElectricSoup]

Merry said:

Max_Torque said:

The ICE drives the wheels directly (mechanically linked) at speeds where it is an advantage to do that in terms of overall efficiency, but only when the engine is running, ie the SoC has fallen and the ReX has already cut it. ie once it's running, and there is a sensible road speed, it's far better to then drive the vehicle directly with the engine, rather than via a second stage of energy conversion. To enable this the Volt has a clever epicyclic transmission that can use the traction motor to "hold" one side of the gears whilst the engine spins the other side. In that way if can act both as a sort of CVT, but also apply direct mechanical torque to the driving wheels across a range of speeds (around 40 to 80 mph) whilst running the engine at a peak efficiency point and charging the battery with the generator attached to the engines flywheel

Sounds well thought out. I was dead set on getting one, but they forgot to fit a bench rear seat, so it only has 4 seats. This unfortunately was a deal breaker for the Mrs

I think there are batteries in that tunnel between the rear seats.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/why-va...

[Merry]

ElectricSoup said:

I think there are batteries in that tunnel between the rear seats.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/why-va...

That would explain it. Shame really, for our needs it would have probably been more suited and slightly cheaper than the Outlander we ended up with.

I may still get one once the prices dip a bit more

[ElectricSoup]

Merry said:

ElectricSoup said:

I think there are batteries in that tunnel between the rear seats.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/why-va...

That would explain it. Shame really, for our needs it would have probably been more suited and slightly cheaper than the Outlander we ended up with.

I may still get one once the prices dip a bit more

I've seen a nice looking Chevy Volt for £7.8k during a casual search this morning...

[cj2013]

ElectricSoup said:

I've seen a nice looking Chevy Volt for £7.8k during a casual search this morning...

They were a bit cheaper this time last year when I was looking, but have gone up again now.

Pricing seems to be based on the definitely-out-of-warranty ones <£8k, with decent examples around £10k

[Otispunkmeyer]

cj2013 said:

ElectricSoup said:

I've seen a nice looking Chevy Volt for £7.8k during a casual search this morning...

They were a bit cheaper this time last year when I was looking, but have gone up again now.

Pricing seems to be based on the definitely-out-of-warranty ones <£8k, with decent examples around £10k

Amperas are even more expensive in general and it's the same car! Looks worse as well. I suspect the Chevy badge makes it seem a bit of a duffer when you consider what other dross they clipped the gold bow tie to over here.

Low miles from the end of the product run are strong mid teens.

[aleksboch]

Any other suggestions around 10-15k? Or, do I go diesel?

[RicksAlfas]

Have you dismissed the Outlander?

[aleksboch]

No. Just would like more choice.

[sjg]

If you want a PHEV SUV and have 10-15k to spend, the Outlander is it.

Cheapest Passat GTE on autotrader is £16.5k and I'd rather have that, even if it is a saloon.

[PKLD]

aleksboch said:

Any other suggestions around 10-15k? Or, do I go diesel?

What about the new MG ZS EV? 150mile range so even your odd longer journey should be fine, and currently £22kish I think brand new so if your budget is £12-15k the small loan to bridge or do PCP and it will similar monthlies and less overall as you’ll be 100% electric rather than 75% electric with a PHEV.

Plus it’s new and getting good reviews and interior quality similar to Outlander (and the 50-60k mile example of those were a bit disappointing)

[aleksboch]

That MG ZS SUV looks like the older Mazda CX-5.

[5harp3y]

2017 330e saloon 18 miles max on EV alone

[davettf2]

BMW 225XE, 18 to 20 miles on pure EV depending on driving style and terrain.

[Evanivitch]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Amperas are even more expensive in general and it's the same car! Looks worse as well. I suspect the Chevy badge makes it seem a bit of a duffer when you consider what other dross they clipped the gold bow tie to over here.

Low miles from the end of the product run are strong mid teens.

The Chevy Volt is an orphan car with no dealership support. Of the few Vauxhall dealers that are Ampera approved (this might change with the new electric Vauxhalls), not all will accept a Volt even though it is the same car. The Ampera is also usually a higher spec. And IMO the better looking car!

Shame it doesn't work for some that need that 5th seat. It's also not Ideal if you'll have tall rear passengers, more because of head space!

[Russ T Bolt]

ElectricSoup said:

I've test driven an Outlander and didn't like it because it's so underpowered.

Edited by ElectricSoup on Thursday 26th September 10:52

I've had one as a company car for the last 3 years, never found it underpowered. It is certainly comparable to its competitors.

When I first got it I had some idiot in an XC60 almost in my boot approaching a roundabout, it convincingly out accelerated the XC60 out of the roundabout, and for the next 5 roundabouts and traffic lights.

You need to press the charge button to get best performance out of it.

However it understeers like mad.

In terms of range, I used to travel to Bristol most weeks. Electric ran out the other side of Theale, so just over 20 miles. This was last winter.

Best I have had was switching to petrol as I turned off M25 at Reigate, but that was during roadworks on M3 and speed limits on M25, whole journey was a steady 50.

Edited by Russ T Bolt on Sunday 6th October 13:19