Wow 3 years on we have a range of electric cars to pick from

[ElectricSoup]

Dave Hedgehog said:

ElectricSoup said:

Other than moving steadily from 24kwh to 60kwh capacity?

which has taken the price of a top spec car to over 39k directly competing against the model 3, e-nero etc.

and it still has no thermal management which has caused poor battery life for a lot of older owners and looking at a 8k bill for an exchange unit

Has it? I haven't seen any real world examples in the press.

It's only allegedly an issue for cars doing several rapid charges a day for extended periods of time, which is frankly vanishingly rare.

Yeah, it would be better to have it, but then some Leaf rivals don't even have rapid charging facilities (e.g. the Merc B Class). It's not really a show stopper.

[Dave Hedgehog]

obviously i have no first hand experience and rely on web reports

but this owner seams pretty experienced with the leaf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ki0WuYUB0

John Cadogan has an entertain rant on the subject from down under

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMWjDU4J1kE

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Monday 7th October 14:10

[ElectricSoup]

Soz, can't watch YT at work, I'll look later if I remember.

[anonymous-user]

The battery issues have mainly been in very hot countries like Australia. In Northern Europe they are fine.

The 64kWh pack should be okay, mainly because if it does start to overheat it just hits #rapidgate anyway. If you need to max 350 miles a day it's probably fine.

[Blue Oval84]

CooperS said:

Its not, ours is through Arval and I only get c.7k (I must try harder!)

The steps are £238, £380 £460 (I think - i'll check and update). I presume its a salary sacrifice scheme and it does appear on certain models it is very competitive.

Sorry think I may not have been clear, the allowance I referred to was the annual mileage, not some sort of car allowance budget.

We actually don't get a car allowance at all in my role, but we'll be able to swap a chunk of gross salary in exchange for a personal car, saving the NI and Tax, and thanks to BIK being reduced to 0% from 2020 for EVs, it's insanely good value.

Only problem is it's not gone live yet and I don't know anyone with access to Tusker to give me the scoop on prices!

[dave_s13]

Example from the scheme at my work (NHS).

Too damn pricey for me but notice the £100ish reductions in monthlies from April next year, some bik reduction due apparently.

[Blue Oval84]

Oh dear


That's a lot more than we were told to expect...

Maybe I'll keep the volvo a while longer yet. I could justify chopping it in early when I was looking at circa £290 all in for a M3 standard range. But not at those prices. Not even at next year's prices!

[Witchfinder]

How much would you save on fuel?

[Blue Oval84]

Witchfinder said:

How much would you save on fuel?

£80 most months, £200 on the months I make a trip up north.

Currently paying £220 on my volvo and could only change to a newer car if the net monthly didn't increase particularly. Bearing in mind I'd actually need the Long Range AWD model, it's safe to say that I'd be facing a significant net rise based on those prices!

Anyway, sorry for hijacking thread OP! Your prices just seemed so competitive I thought we were looking at the same thing!

[SWoll]

Blue Oval84 said:

Witchfinder said:

How much would you save on fuel?

£80 most months, £200 on the months I make a trip up north.

Currently paying £220 on my volvo and could only change to a newer car if the net monthly didn't increase particularly. Bearing in mind I'd actually need the Long Range AWD model, it's safe to say that I'd be facing a significant net rise based on those prices!

Anyway, sorry for hijacking thread OP! Your prices just seemed so competitive I thought we were looking at the same thing!

So on the months where you make a trip up north you have no ability to stop and charge the car whilst you have a break? I only ask as often hear "I must have 300 miles of range" but rarely is that justified.

A prime example was a poster who said he couldn't get an EV because twice a year he did a 300 mile trip down south. That's a couple of hours max charging in total per year and surely he must have a break at some point in that 5 hour or so drive, but apparently not possible to plan charging in. Very odd in my view, but each to their own of course.

[Blue Oval84]

SWoll said:

Blue Oval84 said:

Witchfinder said:

How much would you save on fuel?

£80 most months, £200 on the months I make a trip up north.

Currently paying £220 on my volvo and could only change to a newer car if the net monthly didn't increase particularly. Bearing in mind I'd actually need the Long Range AWD model, it's safe to say that I'd be facing a significant net rise based on those prices!

Anyway, sorry for hijacking thread OP! Your prices just seemed so competitive I thought we were looking at the same thing!

So on the months where you make a trip up north you have no ability to stop and charge the car whilst you have a break? I only ask as often hear "I must have 300 miles of range" but rarely is that justified.

A prime example was a poster who said he couldn't get an EV because twice a year he did a 300 mile trip down south. That's a couple of hours max charging in total per year and surely he must have a break at some point in that 5 hour or so drive, but apparently not possible to plan charging in. Very odd in my view, but each to their own of course.

It's a 370 mile trip each way. I currently do it with one 15-20 minute stop.

I'm more than happy to stop once for 45-50 minutes on a rapid charger. On a Long Range M3 this would be fine, but on an SR I'd be looking at two stops minimum in winter and probably even in summer. The motorway range at a steady 75mph cruise even on the long range is apparently as low as 220-240 miles in winter so god knows what the SR is. This turns a 6 hour chore into more like 7-8 hours. I don't want to fork out for a fancy Tesla and end up missing my diesel Volvo (which does this job superbly)

I also have absolutely no ability to charge at home, so the LR battery would mean far fewer trips needed to the nearby fast charger, or having to arrange workplace charging which is available, but not guaranteed. Taking all the above into account, the SR just feels like a compromise too far, especially if I'm paying more for it than I am today!

[Blue Oval84]

Just to bring this back on topic as well...

I can't wait to find out more details on the upcoming Ford. Depending on lease payments it's a serious contender!

OP is right that there's currently a decent range, and by next year it's going to be even better as off the top of my head, the ID3, Mach E, Polestar 2 and XC40 all become available...

https://www.motor1.com/news/374516/mustang-ev-suv-...

[Dave Hedgehog]

Blue Oval84 said:

Just to bring this back on topic as well...

I can't wait to find out more details on the upcoming Ford. Depending on lease payments it's a serious contender!

OP is right that there's currently a decent range, and by next year it's going to be even better as off the top of my head, the ID3, Mach E, Polestar 2 and XC40 all become available...

https://www.motor1.com/news/374516/mustang-ev-suv-...

now that would be tempting

[M1C]

SWoll said:

Blue Oval84 said:

Witchfinder said:

How much would you save on fuel?

£80 most months, £200 on the months I make a trip up north.

Currently paying £220 on my volvo and could only change to a newer car if the net monthly didn't increase particularly. Bearing in mind I'd actually need the Long Range AWD model, it's safe to say that I'd be facing a significant net rise based on those prices!

Anyway, sorry for hijacking thread OP! Your prices just seemed so competitive I thought we were looking at the same thing!

So on the months where you make a trip up north you have no ability to stop and charge the car whilst you have a break? I only ask as often hear "I must have 300 miles of range" but rarely is that justified.

A prime example was a poster who said he couldn't get an EV because twice a year he did a 300 mile trip down south. That's a couple of hours max charging in total per year and surely he must have a break at some point in that 5 hour or so drive, but apparently not possible to plan charging in. Very odd in my view, but each to their own of course.

Ja. My BIL, on a discussion about electric cars (i recently got a Leaf)

Him: "i wont get an electric car until they can do 500 miles"

Me: "When was the last time you drove 500 miles?"

Him: "well......err....well thats not the point"

Me: "can your current car even do 500 miles!?"

Him: "well, no... but...you know what i mean"

Me: "?!?!?"

[SWoll]

M1C said:

Ja. My BIL, on a discussion about electric cars (i recently got a Leaf)

Him: "i wont get an electric car until they can do 500 miles"

Me: "When was the last time you drove 500 miles?"

Him: "well......err....well thats not the point"

Me: "can your current car even do 500 miles!?"

Him: "well, no... but...you know what i mean"

Me: "?!?!?"

Heard this many times and almost always without any justification.

There are of course people who genuinely need the range or it will cause significant problems, but in the most part it's just a safety blanket for people who are terrified of change as far as I can tell.

Fine by me as means charging bays will remain relatively quiet.

[gangzoom]

Blue Oval84 said:

It's a 370 mile trip each way. I currently do it with one 15-20 minute stop.

Gosh you must literally be driving up/down the length of the UK!!

Depending on how often you do that trip any EV will be a pain compared to your current car.

Sadly an EV that can cover that kind of range in winter, at 75mph, without having to worry about charging still doesn't exist.

Maybe when Tesla upgrade the S to Model 3 battery packs we'll get close, but even than a closed road with detour, rain etc will still cause range anxiety, not forgetting the starting price of the S is a shad under £80k!!!

But most people simply don't drive those distances that regularly or ever. If you actually do need that kind of range regularly a Toyota/Lexus hybrid will give you diesel efficiency without all the emissions worries.

[Blue Oval84]

gangzoom said:

Gosh you must literally be driving up/down the length of the UK!!

Depending on how often you do that trip any EV will be a pain compared to your current car.

It's not far off the length of England at least

Yeah even top end stuff will require at least one full length stop at a rapid for a good 45-60 minutes, but I'd be prepared to accept that in exchange for the cost saving (and generally improved experience day to day).

However getting an EV that would routinely require 2 or maybe even 3 stops, no way. Not when I've got an absolutely awesome motorway cruiser already.

[gangzoom]

My wife has a work meeting coming up, Leicester to Bristol centre and back. 274 miles in total, in even a LR Model 3 I would be looking up the weather, wind directions, and she would be worrying about driving slower, than panicking about reaching home with sub 10% SOC. In a SR she would be looking at charging up middle of rush hour.

Add in the fact even on a NHS salary sacrifice scheme a LR Model 3 is best part £500/month off net pay versus her current car which has £0/month finance payment, AND on a lease scheme in 2-3 years time that £500/month leaves you with nothing more to show for it apart from memories. Where as keeping her current car means as well as not wasting £500/month now, in 2021 she will still have a car on the driveway for no additional cost - Given her current car hasn't even needed a drop of addtional oil between £200/year services since 2015 I cannot see that changing over the next few years.

Which ever way you look at it the 'sensible' argument if your doing intermittent long distance trips is NOT to buy any EV. A used sub £10k Toyota/Lexus sub hybrid financially will work out so much cheaper, and far more convince. EVs at present in certain usage patterns are less convenient AND far more expensive.

On reflection for certain usages Toyota may have it right about EVs after all??

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 9th October 03:39

[vladcjelli]

gangzoom said:

My wife has a work meeting coming up, Leicester to Bristol centre and back. 274 miles in total, in even a LR Model 3 I would be looking up the weather, wind directions, and she would be worrying about driving slower, than panicking about reaching home with sub 10% SOC. In a SR she would be looking at charging up middle of rush hour.

Add in the fact even on a NHS salary sacrifice scheme a LR Model 3 is best part £500/month off net pay versus her current car which has £0/month finance payment, AND on a lease scheme in 2-3 years time that £500/month leaves you with nothing more to show for it apart from memories. Where as keeping her current car means as well as not wasting £500/month now, in 2021 she will still have a car on the driveway for no additional cost - Given her current car hasn't even needed a drop of addtional oil between £200/year services since 2015 I cannot see that changing over the next few years.

Which ever way you look at it the 'sensible' argument if your doing intermittent long distance trips is NOT to buy any EV. A used sub £10k Toyota/Lexus sub hybrid financially will work out so much cheaper, and far more convince. EVs at present in certain usage patterns are less convenient AND far more expensive.

On reflection for certain usages Toyota may have it right about EVs after all??

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 9th October 03:39

Surely a work meeting trip could be expensed on the train?

[gangzoom]

vladcjelli said:

Surely a work meeting trip could be expensed on the train?

And leave a day early to get there on time in the morning.

The whole point of a car (especially an expensive one) is to make your life easier not less. I love our EV for personal use, we always take the EV instead of the combustion car, even if it means more stops. But for work timing is vital, and turning up late because your car needed charging enroute is as acceptable excuse as turning up late because you couldn't be bothered to get out of bed on time.