The future......now
Discussion
Heres Johnny said:
Are Tesla not sending their pay cheque to you if you don;t try and score a few punches online? I'm increasingly of the opinion Tesla dont advertise, they just slip people like you a few joints and encourage you to spout runnish
But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
spout rubbish then links to anecdotal evidence. BTW tesla patched out keyfob vulnerabilities 3 days after that car theft.But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
RobDickinson said:
Heres Johnny said:
Are Tesla not sending their pay cheque to you if you don;t try and score a few punches online? I'm increasingly of the opinion Tesla dont advertise, they just slip people like you a few joints and encourage you to spout runnish
But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
spout rubbish then links to anecdotal evidence. BTW tesla patched out keyfob vulnerabilities 3 days after that car theft.But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
And do you think Tesla would act at all if there wasn't a problem?
Musk will be pleased with your loyalty. Have a gold star
Heres Johnny said:
Are Tesla not sending their pay cheque to you if you don;t try and score a few punches online? I'm increasingly of the opinion Tesla dont advertise, they just slip people like you a few joints and encourage you to spout runnish
But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
And that's different to any other car manufacturer? Relay attack and OBD key clones are all well used against major car brands. Where's their solution?But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
Shelsleyf2 said:
Hi, I own a Nissan Leaf. I bought it used , it is a 24kw battety and had done 21000 miles . I paid £10500 at a Nissan dealer. 0% interest 2 free services and an extra 12 months warranty. It now has 48000 miles on the clock and still shows a full battery on the dash display. I travel.50 miles most days. I have other cars at my disposal should I need to travel further. I love driving it in town (Birmingham) no turbo lag no hole in power delivery, no lag or clutch take up. It is not the only car you will ever need, it is however in a multi car household a car that can fulfill a role. The running costs are miniscule, however I can say that were the costs similar to ice I would still own one as for inner city driving it is unbeatable. I await contradiction by those with no first hand experience.
Fair point from those recommending a second hand Leaf as a runabout. There are a lot of sub-20k Leaf’s at £10k ish available on AT. This could tempt me towards my first EV ownership 
Phil. said:
Fair point from those recommending a second hand Leaf as a runabout. There are a lot of sub-20k Leaf’s at £10k ish available on AT. This could tempt me towards my first EV ownership
Look carefully. I had a mk1 leaf 24kw. Excellent car, but the batteries aren't thermally managed and start to degrade like no one's business. Ours had lost one when we got it then lost a further two during the 18 months we had it.Sold it for just under what we paid in the end
Heres Johnny said:
RobDickinson said:
Heres Johnny said:
Are Tesla not sending their pay cheque to you if you don;t try and score a few punches online? I'm increasingly of the opinion Tesla dont advertise, they just slip people like you a few joints and encourage you to spout runnish
But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
spout rubbish then links to anecdotal evidence. BTW tesla patched out keyfob vulnerabilities 3 days after that car theft.But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
And do you think Tesla would act at all if there wasn't a problem?
Musk will be pleased with your loyalty. Have a gold star
Heres Johnny said:
Autopilot safety stats have been debunked many many times, it’s not worth even going into again as the blind faithful will ignore.
The passive safety is a different matter but that’s a very different thing
Wrong. NCap covers safety of highway autopilot too and it received the best score of any car tested. The passive safety is a different matter but that’s a very different thing
Also I would disagree the ‘blind faithful’ is less likely to base opinions on actual evidence rather than anecdote. It’s a common line on here but I don’t think it is true. Data sources from critics tend to be lower quality. Critics are more likely to rely on anecdote imo.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th December 09:54
Merry said:
Look carefully. I had a mk1 leaf 24kw. Excellent car, but the batteries aren't thermally managed and start to degrade like no one's business. Ours had lost one when we got it then lost a further two during the 18 months we had it.
Sold it for just under what we paid in the end
Thanks. My next step was some research. Looks I’ll probably be keeping the Fiesta for a while longer. Sold it for just under what we paid in the end
Evanivitch said:
And that's different to any other car manufacturer? Relay attack and OBD key clones are all well used against major car brands. Where's their solution?
It’s no different to other manufacturers - but Robbie has suggested previously they were never stolenIf you have a Tesla and join the owners Facebook group and look back at threads it’s not been that uncommon
Good on Tesla to react by changing the key fobs and introducing Pin to drive but that doesn’t negate there have been plenty of thefts
Sambucket said:
Wrong. NCap covers safety of highway autopilot too and it received the best score of any car tested.
Also I would disagree the ‘blind faithful’ is less likely to base opinions on actual evidence rather than anecdote. It’s a common line on here but I don’t think it is true. Data sources from critics tend to be lower quality. Critics are more likely to rely on anecdote imo.
As AP1 is every bit as good if not better than the variability of Tesla’s offering why would I be upset?Also I would disagree the ‘blind faithful’ is less likely to base opinions on actual evidence rather than anecdote. It’s a common line on here but I don’t think it is true. Data sources from critics tend to be lower quality. Critics are more likely to rely on anecdote imo.
Edited by Sambucket on Friday 6th December 09:54
If you know anything about statistics and the news for like for like comparisons then you’d know that being 2x as safe on AP as not on AP when AP is primarily used on roads 4x safer than average you’d start to build a picture of why the numbers have to be treated with scepticism. If you also consider that AP disengages in really bad weather then you’ll also see it’s largely used on the safest roads at the safest times
Gold star for you for your blind loyalty too
To me, this shows what a reasonably good job Tesla have done up to this point. Things fail in busy periods though, roads get congested. LA is a prime example. Worked great originally, but now has queues at 4am with people trying to beat the queues. More capacity just leads to more take up, so doesn't always solve the problem either.
Maybe next year, the vast majority of these drivers will charge at home on peak days, it's one of the advantages of electric vehicles after all. On a day when you want to use your car constantly, it's best not to have a refuel/charge in the middle of it cutting into your times. The same as I go to the petrol station in evenings when I'm not in a rush, I wouldn't dare do it on my way to work as I'll likely be late.
Of course we could extend this problem to the theory that the grid can't cope with everyone switching to electric. Which is why slow take up would be the best course of action going forward. I still believe the best cars for now are self-charging hybrids and they should be what the majority are encouraged to move into. It's an established technology, uses much less rare materials for smaller batteries, and still has conventional IC familiarity so allows a more easier move to electric later on a larger scale.
Maybe next year, the vast majority of these drivers will charge at home on peak days, it's one of the advantages of electric vehicles after all. On a day when you want to use your car constantly, it's best not to have a refuel/charge in the middle of it cutting into your times. The same as I go to the petrol station in evenings when I'm not in a rush, I wouldn't dare do it on my way to work as I'll likely be late.
Of course we could extend this problem to the theory that the grid can't cope with everyone switching to electric. Which is why slow take up would be the best course of action going forward. I still believe the best cars for now are self-charging hybrids and they should be what the majority are encouraged to move into. It's an established technology, uses much less rare materials for smaller batteries, and still has conventional IC familiarity so allows a more easier move to electric later on a larger scale.
Heres Johnny said:
As AP1 is every bit as good if not better than the variability of Tesla’s offering why would I be upset?
If you know anything about statistics and the news for like for like comparisons then you’d know that being 2x as safe on AP as not on AP when AP is primarily used on roads 4x safer than average you’d start to build a picture of why the numbers have to be treated with scepticism. If you also consider that AP disengages in really bad weather then you’ll also see it’s largely used on the safest roads at the safest times
Gold star for you for your blind loyalty too
It’s very immature all this ‘I’m more objective’ than you nonsense. You can’t even see you suffer the same flaws that you accuse. If you know anything about statistics and the news for like for like comparisons then you’d know that being 2x as safe on AP as not on AP when AP is primarily used on roads 4x safer than average you’d start to build a picture of why the numbers have to be treated with scepticism. If you also consider that AP disengages in really bad weather then you’ll also see it’s largely used on the safest roads at the safest times
Gold star for you for your blind loyalty too
Even worse. The quality of your evidence is so poor, it would embarrass even the admin of the tslaq blocklist.
Why don’t you prove your own point by giving us actual evidence behind your claims that ap1 is better than recent builds? Bonus points if you use independent test data over anecdote. Ncap Recently tested loads of Mobileeye highway systems so might be a good place to start.
Anti Tesla is turning more into a cult each day with no grounding in reality.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th December 11:08
Sambucket said:
It’s very immature all this ‘I’m more objective’ than you nonsense. You can’t even see you suffer the same flaws that you accuse.
Even worse. The quality of your evidence is so poor, it would embarrass even the admin of the tslaq blocklist.
Why don’t you prove your own point by giving us actual evidence behind your claims that ap1 is better than recent builds? Bonus points if you use actual data over anecdote.
Anti Tesla is turning more into a cult each day with no grounding in reality.
Provide evidence the Tesla offer is better. Just go on any owners forum and see the comments about AP being very variable but ask anybody about AP1 and they only talk highly of it. Even worse. The quality of your evidence is so poor, it would embarrass even the admin of the tslaq blocklist.
Why don’t you prove your own point by giving us actual evidence behind your claims that ap1 is better than recent builds? Bonus points if you use actual data over anecdote.
Anti Tesla is turning more into a cult each day with no grounding in reality.
Edited by Sambucket on Friday 6th December 11:07
It’s funny how my comments include recognition of positive aspects like passive safety whereas you’ve shown zero objectivity and even when Tesla monumentally screw up and 3 years later come out with things like Deep Rain hold it up as a virtue. Comments elsewhere talk of it being as bad as it was before and there’s a link to analysis explaining why it’s on a hiding to nothing
Sambucket said:
Perfect response to prove my point thank you.
Typical response for critics is. ‘No you prove it. I don’t have to prove anything. ‘ whilst at the same time claiming to be the more objective, more informed and less blind! Lol
Topped off with a dash of anecdote from a forum.
And you have proved my point so perfectly I can only assume you are in musks payroll.
Perfect answer. Thank you.
Re evidence. NCap!!!!! Tesla scores better than the latest Mobileeye systems ....
YawnTypical response for critics is. ‘No you prove it. I don’t have to prove anything. ‘ whilst at the same time claiming to be the more objective, more informed and less blind! Lol
Topped off with a dash of anecdote from a forum.
And you have proved my point so perfectly I can only assume you are in musks payroll.
Perfect answer. Thank you.
Re evidence. NCap!!!!! Tesla scores better than the latest Mobileeye systems ....
Edited by Sambucket on Friday 6th December 11:20
On passive safety yes
On AP self driving... lol
You do know the difference based on your 3 weeks of knowledge?
Sambucket said:
Wrong. NCap covers safety of highway autopilot too and it received the best score of any car tested.
]
lolz, NCAP for the model 3 DIDN'T test the autopilot.]
Also it didn't receive ''the best score of any car tested. '', The Audi e-tron, Toyota Corolla, Volkswagen T-Cross, Mazda 3, Kia Ceed and Lexus UX are some of the other 2019 models that earned five stars.
There is no conspiracy agaimst Tesla, people just don't like it being shoved down everyones throat. And the big car firms aren't out to get Tesla, hell they saved it from extinction a few years back.
Thesprucegoose said:
lolz, NCAP for the model 3 DIDN'T test the autopilot.
Also it didn't receive ''the best score of any car tested. '', The Audi e-tron, Toyota Corolla, Volkswagen T-Cross, Mazda 3, Kia Ceed and Lexus UX are some of the other 2019 models that earned five stars.
There is no conspiracy agaimst Tesla, people just don't like it being shoved down everyones throat. And the big car firms aren't out to get Tesla, hell they saved it from extinction a few years back.
I quote 'The Autopilot-powered lane assist system performed flawlessly based on the tests and it received a perfect score."Also it didn't receive ''the best score of any car tested. '', The Audi e-tron, Toyota Corolla, Volkswagen T-Cross, Mazda 3, Kia Ceed and Lexus UX are some of the other 2019 models that earned five stars.
There is no conspiracy agaimst Tesla, people just don't like it being shoved down everyones throat. And the big car firms aren't out to get Tesla, hell they saved it from extinction a few years back.
In addition to star rating, there is also percentage rating. Tesla has top two spots scoring 94%. 3rd place is 82%.
The TSLAQ blocklist is pretty much the definition of a conspiracy against tesla.
I'm well aware of the negatives. But my main point is that quality of sources from critics is almost always anecdotal and of poor quality. There is valid evidence of the negatives out there, but I just wish the critics wouldn't wash there hands of presenting it. The standard tslaq playbook seems to be 'burden of proof is entirely on their side'.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th December 11:59
Sambucket said:
I quote 'The Autopilot-powered lane assist system performed flawlessly based on the tests and it received a perfect score."
thats vafue, as i put early we were talking about autonmous driving, NCAP doesn't test this yet, it only tests drivers assits, and when it tested the Model 3, it didn't test Autopilot, it tests active safety features such as the automatic emergency braking system (AEB) or one that prevents drivers from unintentionally drifting into another lane.The autopilot full system will not be rated until 2020.
Thesprucegoose said:
thats vafue, as i put early we were talking about autonmous driving, NCAP doesn't test this yet, it only tests drivers assits, and when it tested the Model 3, it didn't test Autopilot, it tests active safety features such as the automatic emergency braking system (AEB) or one that prevents drivers from unintentionally drifting into another lane.
The autopilot full system will not be rated until 2020.
No we are not talking about autonomous driving, we are talking about a guy driving back to truro using highway assist. And the relative safety of autopilot vs other systems currently available. The autopilot full system will not be rated until 2020.
FSD was only brought up, in a shaky attempt to admit navigant's report into evidence.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th December 12:30
Thesprucegoose said:
Yet the full system WASN'T tested yet you seem to miss that point. The driver assits, powered by Autopilot where tested. The full system, autopilot, which NCAP stated is not a goodname BTW, will be tested next year.
Ah, looks like you are right. I thought I read that autopilot highway was part of the tests. Apologies. I misread 'autopilot lane assist' as autopilot, which is called lane departure avoidance more commonly.Still, the score of 94% for passive safety is so far ahead of the next competitor on 82%, I think there is an argument that highway autopilot would likely score relatively highly too. It's the same Tesla vs mobileye software on most of the passive systems too.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th December 13:32
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