Discussion
A Jag dealer near me had a delivery including an iPace. The guy driving it off the truck, screwed up, and it fell off the ramp a bit. 1800 quid for the rear wheel and wishbone, and suspension bits. But someone noticed the battery was cracked. That was 30 grand. 30 grand for the battery?Christ alive. 
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.GOATever said:
vtchequers said:
Can see why you have to hire the battery pack, now!
Is it really that much cheaper to run an ev?
I think that battery costs will be the thing that puts the sIs it really that much cheaper to run an ev?
ts up people, when they come off lease / pcp / finance.abzmike said:
Innocent question - What is insurance like for EVs, if a relativley minor ding can write the thing off?
Higher than for an equivalent sized conventional car. I had a job to find reasonable cover for my Good Lady's Nissan Leaf. It's now part of a multicar policy with Direct Line and the total price is reasonable but you need to get quotes before committing. That's not the cost of the battery. That's the cost to repair the car.
Drive an ICE off a lorry, miss the ramps, and crack, say, the gearbox casing and, yup, by the time you've had the entire powertrain out and replaced the gearbox, that too will be many, many thousands of pounds.
And of course, is there actually any evidence to show these costs to repair this jag are genuine? (why do i suspect not....) Given that swapping a battery is in fact easier than swapping a normal ICE powertrain, i suspect it's both cheaper and easier to do!
Typical removal steps for an ICE powertrain
1) remove undertray
2) remove exhaust system
3) remove fuel system / fuel pipework as necessary
4) remove propshaft (s)
5) remove steering column
6) remove front subframe
7) disconnect main radiator
8) disconnect oil cooler
9) disconnect HVAC / AC
10) disconnect engine and transmisson harnessing
11) disconnect air intake from manifold
12) disconenct transmisson mounts
13) dsiconnect engine mounts
And when that all goes back together again, you have to make sure to put all those myriad parts back together again properly to avoid any rattles or mis-assembly steps to make sure the entire system is fully robust again, and there are a load of critical torques, and alignments (like the steering / subframe etc) as well.
EVs are, by comparison far simpler to change parts on!
typical battery removal steps:
1) remove under tray
2) disconnect HV DC (1 plug)
3) disconnect LV DC (1 plug)
4) disconnect cooling loop (2 pipes on quick fits)
5) Unbolt battery
And of course, the price for replacement parts in no way reflects the true cost of those parts. I recently had the heated rear screen on my car fail, and the genuine price for a replacement upper tailgate panel (BMW touring, so it's a bonded (to the glass) integrated opening panel), was £815. Do you think BMW pay £815 for that part when they build the car, er no they do not (a quick call to a mate who works for Pilkington suggests the actual part is around £30 to the OEM.......)
Drive an ICE off a lorry, miss the ramps, and crack, say, the gearbox casing and, yup, by the time you've had the entire powertrain out and replaced the gearbox, that too will be many, many thousands of pounds.
And of course, is there actually any evidence to show these costs to repair this jag are genuine? (why do i suspect not....) Given that swapping a battery is in fact easier than swapping a normal ICE powertrain, i suspect it's both cheaper and easier to do!
Typical removal steps for an ICE powertrain
1) remove undertray
2) remove exhaust system
3) remove fuel system / fuel pipework as necessary
4) remove propshaft (s)
5) remove steering column
6) remove front subframe
7) disconnect main radiator
8) disconnect oil cooler
9) disconnect HVAC / AC
10) disconnect engine and transmisson harnessing
11) disconnect air intake from manifold
12) disconenct transmisson mounts
13) dsiconnect engine mounts
And when that all goes back together again, you have to make sure to put all those myriad parts back together again properly to avoid any rattles or mis-assembly steps to make sure the entire system is fully robust again, and there are a load of critical torques, and alignments (like the steering / subframe etc) as well.
EVs are, by comparison far simpler to change parts on!
typical battery removal steps:
1) remove under tray
2) disconnect HV DC (1 plug)
3) disconnect LV DC (1 plug)
4) disconnect cooling loop (2 pipes on quick fits)
5) Unbolt battery
And of course, the price for replacement parts in no way reflects the true cost of those parts. I recently had the heated rear screen on my car fail, and the genuine price for a replacement upper tailgate panel (BMW touring, so it's a bonded (to the glass) integrated opening panel), was £815. Do you think BMW pay £815 for that part when they build the car, er no they do not (a quick call to a mate who works for Pilkington suggests the actual part is around £30 to the OEM.......)
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th December 17:28
If it's true, 30k is just a question of Jaguar and/or the dealer taking the piss. Battery packs aren't that expensive and an old pack with a cracked casing would still have significant value for remanufacturing. If they're charging £30k for a replacement pack, over £20k of that is labour or someone's profit.
Right, when you look at what manufacturers charge for battery packs on new vehicles, like say the upgrade from a 39kWh to a 64kWh pack in a Hyundai Kona or Kia eNiro, there's no way that pack costs £30k.
The issue might be that they don't have any real supply of packs yet so have to special order it, meaning multiple layers of mark ups and arse-covering buffers.
The issue might be that they don't have any real supply of packs yet so have to special order it, meaning multiple layers of mark ups and arse-covering buffers.
brickwall said:
As above.
I can also think that the battery packs are so heavy and integral to the construction of the car that getting them out must be an absolute nightmare, which massively adds to the labour cost.
As opposed to get out a "powertrain" ie ICE and gearbox etc?I can also think that the battery packs are so heavy and integral to the construction of the car that getting them out must be an absolute nightmare, which massively adds to the labour cost.
No battery packs are actually extremely easy to remove for two reasons:
1) The car is explicitly designed for them.
2) The connections between the battery and the car are, compared to those between an engine and the car, very simple.
Batteries liek powertrains are married to a car by the "stuff up" or "body drop" process, where the bodyshell comes along an upper conveyor, the powertrain / battery along a lower one, and either the body is dropped over the battery, or the battery is stuffed up into the body.
Yes, mechanical handling is needed due to the mass of the battery, but no one is single handedly shoving a modern ICE and gearbox into a car by man power alone these days (typcial engine + trans is between 300 and 400 kg, and the gearbox weighs nearly as much as the engine!)
Ipace battery and "skateboard":
BMW i3 battery installation:
https://youtu.be/cGtMBB2nZi8?t=2045
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 7th December 18:16
I guess it’s a big reach around throughout the manufacturing chain. The battery pack, replaces fuel, you lease the battery, the cost of the lease is seen as ‘fuel costs’. It’s a big scam, job creation / wealth creation ( for the manufacturers ). I’ve been told the knackered ( standard ) battery pack on the iPace ( the one that was FUBAR ) was put down as a 20 grand claim ( not 30 grand ) there are some packs that are 30 grand, but not this particular one ( so I’m told ). But 20 grand is still .
.Edited by GOATever on Saturday 7th December 18:57
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