How much??

Author
Discussion

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
quotequote all
20k is probably no more than the cost of a replacement engine on a competing ICE car at main dealer labour rates.

Witchfinder

6,250 posts

251 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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Battery costs are heading to around $130/kWh at wholesale, and are expected to dip below $100/kWh in 2023. This is supposedly the point at which electric will have price parity with ICE.

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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Munter said:
I'd be more worried about reports of old Tesla's bricking themselves due to worn out flash memory.

Battery degradation doesn't seem to be as bad as people feared. If you damage it in an accident it's and insurance situation.
They have slashed the amount of logs the cars write to the SS memory

Harris paid 10k after discounts for his S6 gearbox and is suspect an RS6 engine would make a battery pack seam cheap, my dealer said the new engine for my RS3 would have been 20k

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
quotequote all
Witchfinder said:
Battery costs are heading to around $130/kWh at wholesale, and are expected to dip below $100/kWh in 2023. This is supposedly the point at which electric will have price parity with ICE.
That’s an avg thou, Tesla are supposed to be close to $100 already so jag could be a fair bit higher

There is also how much profiteering is involved, leaf batteries are fairly reasonable in Europe (8k?) but they charge 30k aux dollars down under

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
quotequote all
vtchequers said:
Can see why you have to hire the battery pack, now!
Is it really that much cheaper to run an ev?
Apart from thats not a thing, and yes comparable to a petrol/diesel car of similar spec its much cheaper.

manracer

1,544 posts

96 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
quotequote all
Let's not forget this is the dealer, the same realm when parts are replaced wholesale rather than anything being refurbished or repaired. A good Indy should be able to replace cells or packs for minimal cost on ipace soon, just like the market that has sprung up for old leggy leafs.

Separately, do any manufacturers still offer battery leases, I thought it was only Renault who did this and I'm sure I read the other week that even they have stopped offering battery leases now as they recognise no one needs that safety blanket any more due to the bigger packs offered now and stats showing that degradation has been much less than the scaremongers suggested.

Also the warranty bill for my m5 engine rebuild was £18k in 2007 when the vanos said goodbye at donnington.

ZesPak

24,421 posts

195 months

Monday 9th December 2019
quotequote all
Another thing to keep in mind here is that battery packs that are slightly damaged (as in the OP) are far from worthless. They can probably refurbished at minimal cost. Replacing a brand new one at full cost is like replacing an entire engine because one small component gets damaged.

For now, it still seems like rocket science but some people (RickRebuilds) have proven that it isn't. The market will catch up to that.

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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Dave Hedgehog said:
...new engine for my RS3 would have been 20k...
roflroflrofl


that's insane! I could have 3 engines for my car (quite possibly fitted!)

T-195

2,671 posts

60 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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GOATever said:
30 grand for the battery?Christ alive. eek.
Think of all the money you are saving on fuel!

Daaaveee

909 posts

222 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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So first it was 30k, now its 20k, but they still wrote it off, a £50k+ car?

scratchchin

blueacid

435 posts

140 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
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I presume that the cost of a brand new battery is what's on the ticket, but that battery itself will likely be either repairable, or the parts salvaged and used in another new pack - the cells will be nearly new!

As for the questions of whether EV Batteries are the new DPF/Injectors/DMF, I suspect the answer is 'yes' but not quite in the same way.
If my DPF reaches end of life, it's a pretty cut and dry situation: It is broken, you must pay for a new one. Same for the turbos, there's no real option to limp along at 50%, it's all-or-nothing.

With EV Batteries degrading due to use, there'll be a drop-off in range; with some of the older cars that took less care of their batteries (e.g. Leaf without active battery cooling), the effect is a bit more pronounced. But I think we'll see cars which have a real range of was-150-now-100 and the choice of whether to replace the battery cells is absolutely a choice you have rather than a mandatory expense for the car to be on the road again.
Of course there is the failure mode where the battery does *fail*, and/or some of the other expensive gubbins (e.g. power inverters, the drive motor) might also fail, but it seems like these are far less common. I suppose though there'll be a healthy secondhand market for these items from breakers yards.

SCEtoAUX

4,119 posts

80 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
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motco said:
Higher than for an equivalent sized conventional car. I had a job to find reasonable cover for my Good Lady's Nissan Leaf. It's now part of a multicar policy with Direct Line and the total price is reasonable but you need to get quotes before committing.
Not from my experience, no shopping around required.

Me and wife have a Yaris and a Leaf. Both 55, live in a cheap area for insurance, full no claims for both of us.

So you'd expect cheap insurance but £274 all in, fully comp on both cars. With Aviva, who are excellent anyway.

Can't go wrong with that.

granada203028

1,482 posts

196 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
blueacid said:
I presume that the cost of a brand new battery is what's on the ticket, but that battery itself will likely be either repairable, or the parts salvaged and used in another new pack - the cells will be nearly new!

As for the questions of whether EV Batteries are the new DPF/Injectors/DMF, I suspect the answer is 'yes' but not quite in the same way.
If my DPF reaches end of life, it's a pretty cut and dry situation: It is broken, you must pay for a new one. Same for the turbos, there's no real option to limp along at 50%, it's all-or-nothing.

With EV Batteries degrading due to use, there'll be a drop-off in range; with some of the older cars that took less care of their batteries (e.g. Leaf without active battery cooling), the effect is a bit more pronounced. But I think we'll see cars which have a real range of was-150-now-100 and the choice of whether to replace the battery cells is absolutely a choice you have rather than a mandatory expense for the car to be on the road again.
Of course there is the failure mode where the battery does *fail*, and/or some of the other expensive gubbins (e.g. power inverters, the drive motor) might also fail, but it seems like these are far less common. I suppose though there'll be a healthy secondhand market for these items from breakers yards.
Not sure my Leaf battery needs active cooling as it never seams to heat up at all, at least on the bar graph gauge.

It has certainly degraded in 74000 miles but then it's being deep cycled once per day so the cycle life is rapidly being consumed.


RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
granada203028 said:
Not sure my Leaf battery needs active cooling as it never seams to heat up at all, at least on the bar graph gauge.
It will, esp when fast charging, leafspy will show you real data.

IMo for cooler climates and non roadtrip use the leaf should be fine, for hotter places or frequent fast charging its not the right car.

granada203028

1,482 posts

196 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
It will, esp when fast charging, leafspy will show you real data.

IMo for cooler climates and non roadtrip use the leaf should be fine, for hotter places or frequent fast charging its not the right car.
Lucky then I in a temperate climate and have never fast charged it. My 22 mile commute rarely shows any change in reading. It's 5 bars summer, 4 bars winter. Requires about 15KW to cruise at 60 mph.

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
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irocfan said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
...new engine for my RS3 would have been 20k...
roflroflrofl


that's insane! I could have 3 engines for my car (quite possibly fitted!)
£1500 for discs and rotors

TheInternet

4,703 posts

162 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
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Dave Hedgehog said:
£1500 for discs and rotors
If you're paying for stuff twice it's bound to seem expensive.

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
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TheInternet said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
£1500 for discs and rotors
If you're paying for stuff twice it's bound to seem expensive.
hehe


That being said I'm quite shocked at that too - pads and discs for mine start at c.£48 a disc for the cheap end .£600 for a good aftermarket set

ZesPak

24,421 posts

195 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
irocfan said:
hehe


That being said I'm quite shocked at that too - pads and discs for mine start at c.£48 a disc for the cheap end .£600 for a good aftermarket set
But that's without Audi Markup(tm). It's like Apple Tax but without the user friendliness.