Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)
Discussion
ix3, starting production 2020.
Competing with Tesla on the funky wheels front too I notice.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Competing with Tesla on the funky wheels front too I notice.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Standard shared platform attempt also so won't take advantage of the benefits of EV from a packaging standpoint. I guess this is going to be a challenge for a lot of current manufacturers though.
Always been a BMW fan as have had many over the years but no chance I'd choose that over a Model Y.
Always been a BMW fan as have had many over the years but no chance I'd choose that over a Model Y.
jjwilde said:
Fantastic to have been with you all through the original 500 pages, long may Tesla and Uber continue to annoy certain forum users by existing and growing more popular.
Here's to the next 500 pages of salty tears!
Tesla and Uber don't annoy me, just the rabid Fanbois who think St Elon will ever be the only guy running a car manufacturer....Here's to the next 500 pages of salty tears!
In other news, on this day in 1898, Gaston de Chasseloup-Laubat set the first land ever speed record, in an electric car at 39.24 mph.
Even I'd admit there has been progress since then!
Gojira said:
Tesla and Uber don't annoy me, just the rabid Fanbois who think St Elon will ever be the only guy running a car manufacturer....
I honestly don't get this. A bullish view would be 2 million cars a year by 2025 which would be roughly 2% of new car sales. Can you quote a single poster or fanbois on this site, ever, to have claimed tesla will be even in the top 3 of car makers in next 5 years, let alone the 'only' car maker.
I understand this site thrives on conflict, which is fine, but it does seem like folk make stuff up in order to have something to shout against. Most telsa fans are petrol heads too, and have above average education, and big wallets. Not the XR type to be blind cultists.
Tesla make niche premium EVs with aspirations to be at roughly BMW level of production. They want to push other OEMs into making EVs too. The quicker other companies invest in EV, the more likely will Tesla survive.
JD said:
500 pages and they are still alive.
To repeat, 17 or 18 years, and the Taycan showed that the new entrants to the EV market don't have a lot to catch up to. Others are out spending then in r&d now and joining into partnerships and mergers.Tesla I still think will have to be bought out, sell a massive share, or join partnerships, or even Tesla taking over someone.(latter due to Musk ego and wanting to be boss).
I don't think they have done enough and are far enough ahead at this stage when it's getting more real.
Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th December 15:10
Sambucket said:
Gojira said:
Tesla and Uber don't annoy me, just the rabid Fanbois who think St Elon will ever be the only guy running a car manufacturer....
I honestly don't get this. A bullish view would be 2 million cars a year by 2025 which would be roughly 2% of new car sales. Can you quote a single poster or fanbois on this site, ever, to have claimed tesla will be even in the top 3 of car makers in next 5 years, let alone the 'only' car maker.
I understand this site thrives on conflict, which is fine, but it does seem like folk make stuff up in order to have something to shout against. Most telsa fans are petrol heads too, and have above average education, and big wallets. Not the XR type to be blind cultists.
Tesla make niche premium EVs with aspirations to be at roughly BMW level of production. They want to push other OEMs into making EVs too. The quicker other companies invest in EV, the more likely will Tesla survive.
I agree with your assessment of the future for Tesla, and I totally agree that most of the Tesla fans here are reasonable, but there do seem to be a few on here who seem much more dedicated to St Elon and his products than almost all the Macolytes back in the days of rabid Mac vs PC or iProduct vs Android arguments ever managed with their support for Steve Jobs.
If I had to name names, I'd say that Jamoor has probably done more than anyone else on the planet to put me off Tesla, but I'd admit there are folks on the other side of the argument who are almost as good at foot-shooting!
hyphen said:
I don't think they have done enough and are far enough ahead at this stage when it's getting more real.
What they have done is built 'the' aspirational car brand for under 25's. Never seen so much interest in a mainstream car in my life as we have had in the last 2 weeks with the M3P.Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th December 15:10
The amount of passenger rides I've had to give to friends and family is ridiculous and once you start showing them some of the systems they only get more interested.
Went to visit some friends at the weekend and arrived to find their 14 year old son and 2 of his mates that had been sat waiting by the front door for us to arrive so I could take them out. Genuinely mental stuff.
Say what you want about Elon and the absolute quality of the cars but I guarantee other mainstream manufacturers would kill for that kind of excitement about their product.
hyphen said:
JD said:
500 pages and they are still alive.
To repeat, 17 or 18 years, and the Taycan showed that the new entrants to the EV market don't have a lot to catch up to. Others are out spending then in r&d now and joining into partnerships and mergers.Tesla I still think will have to be bought out, sell a massive share, or join partnerships, or even Tesla taking over someone.(latter due to Musk ego and wanting to be boss).
I don't think they have done enough and are far enough ahead at this stage when it's getting more real.
Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th December 15:10
The model 3 is built ground up to be a self driving taxi, which is why it doesn't have door handles, has a camera watching the cabin and no buttons, and the glovebox is controlled using the touchscreen so noone can get in.
If their cars can actually be self ddriving taxis then we have a very different fight on our hands.
SWoll said:
hyphen said:
I don't think they have done enough and are far enough ahead at this stage when it's getting more real.
What they have done is built 'the' aspirational car brand for under 25's. Never seen so much interest in a mainstream car in my life as we have had in the last 2 weeks with the M3P.Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th December 15:10
The amount of passenger rides I've had to give to friends and family is ridiculous and once you start showing them some of the systems they only get more interested.
Went to visit some friends at the weekend and arrived to find their 14 year old son and 2 of his mates that had been sat waiting by the front door for us to arrive so I could take them out. Genuinely mental stuff.
Say what you want about Elon and the absolute quality of the cars but I guarantee other mainstream manufacturers would kill for that kind of excitement about their product.
So its no surprise when something different comes along and people are interested to see what it is.
hyphen said:
I don't think they have done enough and are far enough ahead at this stage when it's getting more real.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 18th December 15:10
We need to frame the debate. Is your position closer to:
A) 'Tesla will prosper but never sell 10m cars a year'
B) Tesla will limp on but never sell 1M cars a year?
C) regardless of deliveries, tesla won't be able to survive long term without restructure as they will never make a sustainable profit.
A rising tide raises all ships. so if other companies like BMW can grow EV sales, it's likely Tesla will too. So again I'm unsure what you mean about 'more real'.
Apologies if I keep hammering this line. But unless we understand what it is you are skeptical of exactly, it's hard to take the debate any further.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 18th December 16:57
Sambucket said:
Haven't done enough for what? This is why I'm curious about your delivery projections. It's not very clear what you are sceptical about. What is this 'it' that Tesla won't be able to do, when competition 'arrives'.
We need to frame the debate. Is your position A) 'Tesla will never sell 10m cars a year' or is more like B) "Tesla will never sell 1M cars a year?"
Or there is something like C) regardless of deliveries, tesla won't be able to survive long term without restructure. That is another option, but a rising tide rises all ships. If BMW manage to keep growing, it's likely Tesla will too. So again I'm unsure what you mean about 'more real'.
Apologies if I keep hammering this line. But unless we understand what it is you are skeptical of exactly, it's hard to take the debate any further.
Good post. We need to frame the debate. Is your position A) 'Tesla will never sell 10m cars a year' or is more like B) "Tesla will never sell 1M cars a year?"
Or there is something like C) regardless of deliveries, tesla won't be able to survive long term without restructure. That is another option, but a rising tide rises all ships. If BMW manage to keep growing, it's likely Tesla will too. So again I'm unsure what you mean about 'more real'.
Apologies if I keep hammering this line. But unless we understand what it is you are skeptical of exactly, it's hard to take the debate any further.
Edited by Sambucket on Wednesday 18th December 16:23
jamoor said:
SWoll said:
hyphen said:
I don't think they have done enough and are far enough ahead at this stage when it's getting more real.
What they have done is built 'the' aspirational car brand for under 25's. Never seen so much interest in a mainstream car in my life as we have had in the last 2 weeks with the M3P.Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th December 15:10
The amount of passenger rides I've had to give to friends and family is ridiculous and once you start showing them some of the systems they only get more interested.
Went to visit some friends at the weekend and arrived to find their 14 year old son and 2 of his mates that had been sat waiting by the front door for us to arrive so I could take them out. Genuinely mental stuff.
Say what you want about Elon and the absolute quality of the cars but I guarantee other mainstream manufacturers would kill for that kind of excitement about their product.
So its no surprise when something different comes along and people are interested to see what it is.
Had I opted for an M4, RS4, C63 I don't believe for a second it would have got even a tenth of the interest. Genuine excitement from young and old just to sit in it. Very odd but just shows you how much the brand has got into peoples minds and in such a positive light.
SWoll said:
jamoor said:
SWoll said:
hyphen said:
I don't think they have done enough and are far enough ahead at this stage when it's getting more real.
What they have done is built 'the' aspirational car brand for under 25's. Never seen so much interest in a mainstream car in my life as we have had in the last 2 weeks with the M3P.Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th December 15:10
The amount of passenger rides I've had to give to friends and family is ridiculous and once you start showing them some of the systems they only get more interested.
Went to visit some friends at the weekend and arrived to find their 14 year old son and 2 of his mates that had been sat waiting by the front door for us to arrive so I could take them out. Genuinely mental stuff.
Say what you want about Elon and the absolute quality of the cars but I guarantee other mainstream manufacturers would kill for that kind of excitement about their product.
So its no surprise when something different comes along and people are interested to see what it is.
Had I opted for an M4, RS4, C63 I don't believe for a second it would have got even a tenth of the interest. Genuine excitement from young and old just to sit in it. Very odd but just shows you how much the brand has got into peoples minds and in such a positive light.
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