Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Tuna said:
If we're serious about million mile cars - which for the average driver is decades of use - building more and more technology into the infotainment centre makes less and less sense.
The replacement cycle for phones is less than 18 months.
If we'd had a million mile car when Tesla was first founded, it would run MySpace, Napster and integrate with your Blackberry secure network.
Claims that "oh but the software will be updated" are at best optimistic. Try getting your original iPhone to run Whatsapp. At a certain point in a car's lifecycle, updates stop happening as the software team focus on the newer models, the next greatest thing, and compatibility with faster networks, better phones and all the other stuff we interface with.
But that's the point, nobody is. The replacement cycle for phones is less than 18 months.
If we'd had a million mile car when Tesla was first founded, it would run MySpace, Napster and integrate with your Blackberry secure network.
Claims that "oh but the software will be updated" are at best optimistic. Try getting your original iPhone to run Whatsapp. At a certain point in a car's lifecycle, updates stop happening as the software team focus on the newer models, the next greatest thing, and compatibility with faster networks, better phones and all the other stuff we interface with.
Just build a cheap EV that costs £10k and does 100,000 miles, and then arranges its own collection to go to the disposal centre.. it doesn't need to drive itself, or be able to down load Game of Thrones, or change colour, just go from A to B , when that it 250 miles with no stops.
That's it.
Taken from the Polestar 2 thread. UK mags giving the car 4/5 rating
jagfan2 said:
Car verdict said:
Polestar 2 review: verdict
The new Polestar 2 is quite an achievement. Volvo decided to spin off the company as a standalone unit to rival Tesla - a progressive, performance brand highly attuned to the zeitgeist. And those values feel on point in 2020, as we all question our way of living in these post-pandemic times and we predict positive interest in Polestar’s vegan interiors, clean-fuel EV status and focus on low environmental impact.
The 2 scores more highly than the Tesla Model 3 on quality and many will prefer the reassurance of an established parent company, but Polestar can’t match Elon Musk’s proprietary charging infrastructure and evangelical following. Which would we pick? The Polestar 2 is a more mature product (despite hailing from a brand even newer than Tesla) and delighted us with its interior, its slick drive and all-round package. Pick the Tesla if you want greater choice of powertrains, range and price - not to mention outright performance and an own-brand charging network - but the Polestar will be a more exclusive, intelligent purchase and one that we’d back long term to make proper inroads into the growing EV marketplace.
The new Polestar 2 is quite an achievement. Volvo decided to spin off the company as a standalone unit to rival Tesla - a progressive, performance brand highly attuned to the zeitgeist. And those values feel on point in 2020, as we all question our way of living in these post-pandemic times and we predict positive interest in Polestar’s vegan interiors, clean-fuel EV status and focus on low environmental impact.
The 2 scores more highly than the Tesla Model 3 on quality and many will prefer the reassurance of an established parent company, but Polestar can’t match Elon Musk’s proprietary charging infrastructure and evangelical following. Which would we pick? The Polestar 2 is a more mature product (despite hailing from a brand even newer than Tesla) and delighted us with its interior, its slick drive and all-round package. Pick the Tesla if you want greater choice of powertrains, range and price - not to mention outright performance and an own-brand charging network - but the Polestar will be a more exclusive, intelligent purchase and one that we’d back long term to make proper inroads into the growing EV marketplace.
Tuna said:
If we're serious about million mile cars - which for the average driver is decades of use - building more and more technology into the infotainment centre makes less and less sense.
The replacement cycle for phones is less than 18 months.
If we'd had a million mile car when Tesla was first founded, it would run MySpace, Napster and integrate with your Blackberry secure network.
Claims that "oh but the software will be updated" are at best optimistic. Try getting your original iPhone to run Whatsapp. At a certain point in a car's lifecycle, updates stop happening as the software team focus on the newer models, the next greatest thing, and compatibility with faster networks, better phones and all the other stuff we interface with.
The difference is that a phone is £500-1000 whereas a car is £35,000. It's not financially viable to take an iphone apart and replace the screen and cpu (some companies have tried similar but failed)The replacement cycle for phones is less than 18 months.
If we'd had a million mile car when Tesla was first founded, it would run MySpace, Napster and integrate with your Blackberry secure network.
Claims that "oh but the software will be updated" are at best optimistic. Try getting your original iPhone to run Whatsapp. At a certain point in a car's lifecycle, updates stop happening as the software team focus on the newer models, the next greatest thing, and compatibility with faster networks, better phones and all the other stuff we interface with.
So upgrading the hardware is a real possibility. Need to run faster software? just swap out the computer everything else is fine. They did this with the Model S.
jamoor said:
The difference is that a phone is £500-1000 whereas a car is £35,000. It's not financially viable to take an iphone apart and replace the screen and cpu (some companies have tried similar but failed)
So upgrading the hardware is a real possibility. Need to run faster software? just swap out the computer everything else is fine. They did this with the Model S.
I scrapped a car because the cost of replacing the 'smart' key was so high, it was easier to weight it in and start again. So upgrading the hardware is a real possibility. Need to run faster software? just swap out the computer everything else is fine. They did this with the Model S.
The notion that people will 'simply' upgrade is a fallacy, when everything built now has obsolescence at part of its design.
Nothing is designed to last, its designed to sell, and not fall apart until the day after the warranty runs out.
I haven't checked the voracity of the claim, but
https://twitter.com/TeslaAgnostic/status/128009098...
https://twitter.com/TeslaAgnostic/status/128009098...
JPJPJP said:
I haven't checked the voracity of the claim, but
https://twitter.com/TeslaAgnostic/status/128009098...
Tesla covers them all with 30b to spare https://twitter.com/TeslaAgnostic/status/128009098...
Cheeses of Nazareth said:
I scrapped a car because the cost of replacing the 'smart' key was so high, it was easier to weight it in and start again.
The notion that people will 'simply' upgrade is a fallacy, when everything built now has obsolescence at part of its design.
Nothing is designed to last, its designed to sell, and not fall apart until the day after the warranty runs out.
Lets pretend your new washing machine was a pay as you go service. Every time you used the washing machine hotpoint would make £2. Would hotpoint make good quality machines that will be there for years or would they want you to buy a new one asap?The notion that people will 'simply' upgrade is a fallacy, when everything built now has obsolescence at part of its design.
Nothing is designed to last, its designed to sell, and not fall apart until the day after the warranty runs out.
There's 2 very different business models which you don't seem to understand.
Tuna said:
If we're serious about million mile cars - which for the average driver is decades of use - building more and more technology into the infotainment centre makes less and less sense.
The replacement cycle for phones is less than 18 months.
If we'd had a million mile car when Tesla was first founded, it would run MySpace, Napster and integrate with your Blackberry secure network.
Claims that "oh but the software will be updated" are at best optimistic. Try getting your original iPhone to run Whatsapp. At a certain point in a car's lifecycle, updates stop happening as the software team focus on the newer models, the next greatest thing, and compatibility with faster networks, better phones and all the other stuff we interface with.
'Optimistic'? Tesla have updated all their cars software on a regular basis since 2012, the hardware is easily capable of doing the base functions (nav, music, video) and always will be.The replacement cycle for phones is less than 18 months.
If we'd had a million mile car when Tesla was first founded, it would run MySpace, Napster and integrate with your Blackberry secure network.
Claims that "oh but the software will be updated" are at best optimistic. Try getting your original iPhone to run Whatsapp. At a certain point in a car's lifecycle, updates stop happening as the software team focus on the newer models, the next greatest thing, and compatibility with faster networks, better phones and all the other stuff we interface with.
Burwood said:
Tesla covers them all with 30b to spare
Robin Hood, Robin Hood, riding through the glen...https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/behind-teslas-mi...
jjwilde said:
'Optimistic'? Tesla have updated all their cars software on a regular basis since 2012, the hardware is easily capable of doing the base functions (nav, music, video) and always will be.
If only that was trueMany of car features aren’t supported on cars built more than a year or so ago, it’s one thing changing the software on older cars, it’s another thing actually adding something new. Robs list doesn’t work on many cars even 2 years old. And a car from before 2015 hasn’t even had the dash upgraded and still show a large orotund speedo that party gets obliterated when a text message comes in (a new feature but one most car makes have supported for 15 years).
AP HW was also promised to be able to self drive, then the second version was and then the third version and they’re now working on HW4. You can of course spend £8k or whatever it is and they will maybe one day get around to upgrading your hardware, but how many people have had that done given they bought the car nearly 4 years ago and paid for the option? And they don’t get dash cam, sentry mode that records (so what’s the point) etc etc, even though they were promised to be upgraded as and when the software needed it. And if you hadn’t bought FSD you’ll not get any of those features and never will.
Of course you could spend £10k on FSD and an MCU upgrade and wait maybe another year or so to actually get upgraded, they’ve not done any outside the IS to my knowledge. but spending an extra, £10k on a car that’s worth maybe 40k?
You’re fallen for the classic trap of believing the promise and not looked at the actual action.
JPJPJP said:
Burwood said:
Tesla covers them all with 30b to spare
Robin Hood, Robin Hood, riding through the glen...https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/behind-teslas-mi...
Tuna said:
If we're serious about million mile cars - which for the average driver is decades of use - building more and more technology into the infotainment centre makes less and less sense.
The replacement cycle for phones is less than 18 months.
All of this - again - ignores that Tesla has a MCU upgrade for the Model S if you want. The replacement cycle for phones is less than 18 months.
It's more expensive than a phone but definitely less than a new car.
ZesPak said:
All of this - again - ignores that Tesla has a MCU upgrade for the Model S if you want.
It's more expensive than a phone but definitely less than a new car.
Not ignored, see comments above by Here's Johnny. It's more expensive than a phone but definitely less than a new car.
These conversations remind me strongly of near identical conversations I had with Palm Pilot owners. Everything it did could be improved by either a software or a hardware upgrade - Palm Pilots were the future!
hyphen said:
Car verdict said:
Polestar 2 review: verdict
The new Polestar 2 is quite an achievement. Volvo decided to spin off the company as a standalone unit to rival Tesla - a progressive, performance brand highly attuned to the zeitgeist. And those values feel on point in 2020, as we all question our way of living in these post-pandemic times and we predict positive interest in Polestar’s vegan interiors, clean-fuel EV status and focus on low environmental impact.
The 2 scores more highly than the Tesla Model 3 on quality and many will prefer the reassurance of an established parent company, but Polestar can’t match Elon Musk’s proprietary charging infrastructure and evangelical following. Which would we pick? The Polestar 2 is a more mature product (despite hailing from a brand even newer than Tesla) and delighted us with its interior, its slick drive and all-round package. Pick the Tesla if you want greater choice of powertrains, range and price - not to mention outright performance and an own-brand charging network - but the Polestar will be a more exclusive, intelligent purchase and one that we’d back long term to make proper inroads into the growing EV marketplace.
The new Polestar 2 is quite an achievement. Volvo decided to spin off the company as a standalone unit to rival Tesla - a progressive, performance brand highly attuned to the zeitgeist. And those values feel on point in 2020, as we all question our way of living in these post-pandemic times and we predict positive interest in Polestar’s vegan interiors, clean-fuel EV status and focus on low environmental impact.
The 2 scores more highly than the Tesla Model 3 on quality and many will prefer the reassurance of an established parent company, but Polestar can’t match Elon Musk’s proprietary charging infrastructure and evangelical following. Which would we pick? The Polestar 2 is a more mature product (despite hailing from a brand even newer than Tesla) and delighted us with its interior, its slick drive and all-round package. Pick the Tesla if you want greater choice of powertrains, range and price - not to mention outright performance and an own-brand charging network - but the Polestar will be a more exclusive, intelligent purchase and one that we’d back long term to make proper inroads into the growing EV marketplace.
"Build quality is impressive, with tight shutlines, lustrous paintwork and neat detailing"
jamoor said:
Lets pretend your new washing machine was a pay as you go service. Every time you used the washing machine hotpoint would make £2. Would hotpoint make good quality machines that will be there for years or would they want you to buy a new one asap?
There's 2 very different business models which you don't seem to understand.
I have read that 3 times and it makes no sense either way. There's 2 very different business models which you don't seem to understand.
Hotpoint would want to sell me a new washing machine as often as they could.
Cheeses of Nazareth said:
I have read that 3 times and it makes no sense either way.
Hotpoint would want to sell me a new washing machine as often as they could.
I don't know how his point was that relevant, but in his scenario they don't they want you to pay per wash. So they have all the benefits giving you a machine that lasts.Hotpoint would want to sell me a new washing machine as often as they could.
It's the same with printers, companies getting fed up with printers not working so they rent them and pay per print. The company that puts out the printers/coffee machines/whatever has all the benefit having a machine that lasts as long as possible. VS the company that sells you a printer...
Same goes with cars, it's a well known fact that many dealers don't make that much money on selling a car rather than maintaining it.
If Tesla is serious about becoming a huge (robo)taxi company, they have all the reasons to make cars that last.
Imagine being able to charge 50p per mile (less than half what an uber costs). For a million miles.
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