Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

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lothianJim

2,274 posts

41 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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So if they just change the name you are cool with it?

Yes everyone will sue, some will win. If crashes are rare though, it won't matter.

If supervised FSD is shown safer on average, regulators will still allow it, which is surely correct? (It's a big if)


anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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The law will demand unambiguous terminology when it comes to naming the system and describing what it does.
The system is either totally in control or it has no control at all.
I doubt the law will allow it to be defined as being in full control but if it did it would insist Tesla has some liability. Kinda catch 22!

It's in Tesla's interest to be very clear with everyone about this.

That's just, like, my opinion, maaaan.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 24th October 21:12

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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Would Tesla owners really feel hard done by if it turned out to just be an assistance package?

Order66

6,726 posts

248 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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lothianJim said:
So if they just change the name you are cool with it?

Yes everyone will sue, some will win. If crashes are rare though, it won't matter.

If supervised FSD is shown safer on average, regulators will still allow it, which is surely correct? (It's a big if)
The name and the price. Name it more realistically for what it is, and don't wave the "FSD" carrot to justify a price which is currently unjustifiable.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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lothianJim said:
Re liability for accidents in a private vehicle, it's (very) obviously the driver.
If you are using (F)SD to improve the safety of your driving, a software update makes it perform differently and you subsequently have an accident - I think more than a few people will believe the people responsible for the software update should be held liable.

If my anti-lock brakes suddenly stopped being as effective and I had a crash, I would be holding any manufacturer responsible. Why should FSD be any different?

And if I have given full control over to the software and it makes a decision I cannot correct in time, then it is certainly the software that is responsible for the accident.

lothianJim

2,274 posts

41 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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Tuna said:

If my anti-lock brakes suddenly stopped being as effective and I had a crash, I would be holding any manufacturer responsible. Why should FSD be any different?
I guess one defence is, it's reasonable to expect buyers to understand active supervision is compulsory.

Brakes should work consistently at all times. FSD is variable, and unreliable driving is not just tolerated, but inevitable and expected.

There would be a stronger case, if FSD did something unexpected you couldn't react to, like a handbrake turn off a bridge. But general mistakes are expected, and the driver is responsible for correcting them.

If safety improves on average however, it's justified surely? I can forgive the odd phantom braking incident because i'm pretty sure my risk of crashing has gone down on average since using driver assists.




Edited by lothianJim on Saturday 24th October 21:55

gangzoom

6,251 posts

214 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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Really unbiased commentary, haven't watched most of it, but its very clearly 'beta' even for Tesla to the point where users who have had this feature activated have been called in person to explain the limitations of the software.

https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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lothianJim said:
There would be a stronger case, if FSD did something unexpected you couldn't react to, like a handbrake turn off a bridge. But general mistakes are expected, and the driver is responsible for correcting them.
Imagine, the FSD drives along roads past parked cars just fine for weeks. You begin to expect that it can correctly position itself alongside parked cars. Then one day an unexpected mark in the road, or a plastic bag, or a muddy car causes the FSD to swing into the row of parked cars.

Unexpected isn't just random behaviour, it's a small change in normal driving conditions that the software hasn't been correctly coded for - like phantom braking - that can have serious consequences.

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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gangzoom said:
Really unbiased commentary, haven't watched most of it, but its very clearly 'beta' even for Tesla to the point where users who have had this feature activated have been called in person to explain the limitations of the software.

https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU
Tesla will be getting free data back about each time the driver intervenes.. Got to give it to Tesla, they have these people willing to not only pay for FSD, but then also provide Tesla free labour and cover all their own overheads too hehe


gangzoom

6,251 posts

214 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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hyphen said:
Tesla will be getting free data back about each time the driver intervenes..
15gig upload back to Tesla in the first 24hrs apparently!!

Don't forget all the free advertising Tesla is getting as well via YouTube (170k views in 24hrs), Twitter, news media.

Other manufacturers must be scratching their heads on why they waste so much money on advertising campaigns, press launches etc.

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 25th October 07:01

gangzoom

6,251 posts

214 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Me personally no, I love tech, I have found memorise of getting excited when my dad wasted 2 months of savings on a 40MB external hard drive back in the days when high density floppy discs were still a thing.

FSD option + AP3 cpu cost me £4.5k 12 months or so ago. A brand new MacBook Pro can be speced to over £6k these days and £1k+ smart phones seems 'normal', so the asking price back than wasn’t too bad. If it goes up to £10k that's a different matter.

Though cutting edge tech has always been expensive, and you can never avoid the early adopter tax, but if you can afford it and like tech why not?? For me its more exciting than spending the same amount on a beach holiday in the Caribbean or a week in Vegas.

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 25th October 07:10

NDNDNDND

2,001 posts

182 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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gangzoom said:
Really unbiased commentary, haven't watched most of it, but its very clearly 'beta' even for Tesla to the point where users who have had this feature activated have been called in person to explain the limitations of the software.

https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU
Interesting video - it possibly shows how 'choreographed' the videos uploaded so far have been. It makes 'Full Self Driving' look very stressful! He seems at his calmest when he just takes over and drives the car himself. This is a level 2 system masquerading as a level 5 system, I'm really not sure it should be on the roads.

98elise

26,376 posts

160 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
There are already well defined (SAE) levels of autonomy, and type approval for European cars includes definitions of "automated vehicle" and "fully automated vehicle"

Tesla use the SAE levels.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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gangzoom said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Me personally no, I love tech, I have found memorise of getting excited when my dad wasted 2 months of savings on a 40MB external hard drive back in the days when high density floppy discs were still a thing.

FSD option + AP3 cpu cost me £4.5k 12 months or so ago. A brand new MacBook Pro can be speced to over £6k these days and £1k+ smart phones seems 'normal', so the asking price back than wasn’t too bad. If it goes up to £10k that's a different matter.

Though cutting edge tech has always been expensive, and you can never avoid the early adopter tax, but if you can afford it and like tech why not?? For me its more exciting than spending the same amount on a beach holiday in the Caribbean or a week in Vegas.

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 25th October 07:10
thumbup

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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gangzoom said:
For me its more exciting than spending the same amount on a beach holiday in the Caribbean or a week in Vegas.
You would be on this beautiful Caribbean holiday frolicking with a beautful lady (or man/chicken/octopus/whatever) though, so one would think it is more exciting than sitting in a car biggrin

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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biggrin

gangzoom

6,251 posts

214 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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hyphen said:
You would be on this beautiful Caribbean holiday frolicking with a beautful lady (or man/chicken/octopus/whatever) though, so one would think it is more exciting than sitting in a car biggrin
....Or just do both? Though the humidity, even at night, isn't something mentioned in brochures or travel programs.



Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 25th October 13:01

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Is that Godzilla on the horizon?

gangzoom

6,251 posts

214 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Tuna said:
Is that Godzilla on the horizon?
That would have made it a more interesting holiday smile

gangzoom

6,251 posts

214 months

Monday 26th October 2020
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Perfect weather/lighting but impressive the AP system 'saw' pedestrians across on the other side of the road a long way off. 4.45 mark.

https://youtu.be/HH3WV2UVAsI
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