Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)
Discussion
The law will demand unambiguous terminology when it comes to naming the system and describing what it does.
The system is either totally in control or it has no control at all.
I doubt the law will allow it to be defined as being in full control but if it did it would insist Tesla has some liability. Kinda catch 22!
It's in Tesla's interest to be very clear with everyone about this.
That's just, like, my opinion, maaaan.
The system is either totally in control or it has no control at all.
I doubt the law will allow it to be defined as being in full control but if it did it would insist Tesla has some liability. Kinda catch 22!
It's in Tesla's interest to be very clear with everyone about this.
That's just, like, my opinion, maaaan.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 24th October 21:12
lothianJim said:
So if they just change the name you are cool with it?
Yes everyone will sue, some will win. If crashes are rare though, it won't matter.
If supervised FSD is shown safer on average, regulators will still allow it, which is surely correct? (It's a big if)
The name and the price. Name it more realistically for what it is, and don't wave the "FSD" carrot to justify a price which is currently unjustifiable.Yes everyone will sue, some will win. If crashes are rare though, it won't matter.
If supervised FSD is shown safer on average, regulators will still allow it, which is surely correct? (It's a big if)
lothianJim said:
Re liability for accidents in a private vehicle, it's (very) obviously the driver.
If you are using (F)SD to improve the safety of your driving, a software update makes it perform differently and you subsequently have an accident - I think more than a few people will believe the people responsible for the software update should be held liable.If my anti-lock brakes suddenly stopped being as effective and I had a crash, I would be holding any manufacturer responsible. Why should FSD be any different?
And if I have given full control over to the software and it makes a decision I cannot correct in time, then it is certainly the software that is responsible for the accident.
Tuna said:
If my anti-lock brakes suddenly stopped being as effective and I had a crash, I would be holding any manufacturer responsible. Why should FSD be any different?
Brakes should work consistently at all times. FSD is variable, and unreliable driving is not just tolerated, but inevitable and expected.
There would be a stronger case, if FSD did something unexpected you couldn't react to, like a handbrake turn off a bridge. But general mistakes are expected, and the driver is responsible for correcting them.
If safety improves on average however, it's justified surely? I can forgive the odd phantom braking incident because i'm pretty sure my risk of crashing has gone down on average since using driver assists.
Edited by lothianJim on Saturday 24th October 21:55
Really unbiased commentary, haven't watched most of it, but its very clearly 'beta' even for Tesla to the point where users who have had this feature activated have been called in person to explain the limitations of the software.
https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU
https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU
lothianJim said:
There would be a stronger case, if FSD did something unexpected you couldn't react to, like a handbrake turn off a bridge. But general mistakes are expected, and the driver is responsible for correcting them.
Imagine, the FSD drives along roads past parked cars just fine for weeks. You begin to expect that it can correctly position itself alongside parked cars. Then one day an unexpected mark in the road, or a plastic bag, or a muddy car causes the FSD to swing into the row of parked cars. Unexpected isn't just random behaviour, it's a small change in normal driving conditions that the software hasn't been correctly coded for - like phantom braking - that can have serious consequences.
gangzoom said:
Really unbiased commentary, haven't watched most of it, but its very clearly 'beta' even for Tesla to the point where users who have had this feature activated have been called in person to explain the limitations of the software.
https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU
Tesla will be getting free data back about each time the driver intervenes.. Got to give it to Tesla, they have these people willing to not only pay for FSD, but then also provide Tesla free labour and cover all their own overheads too https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU
hyphen said:
Tesla will be getting free data back about each time the driver intervenes..
15gig upload back to Tesla in the first 24hrs apparently!! Don't forget all the free advertising Tesla is getting as well via YouTube (170k views in 24hrs), Twitter, news media.
Other manufacturers must be scratching their heads on why they waste so much money on advertising campaigns, press launches etc.
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 25th October 07:01
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Me personally no, I love tech, I have found memorise of getting excited when my dad wasted 2 months of savings on a 40MB external hard drive back in the days when high density floppy discs were still a thing.FSD option + AP3 cpu cost me £4.5k 12 months or so ago. A brand new MacBook Pro can be speced to over £6k these days and £1k+ smart phones seems 'normal', so the asking price back than wasn’t too bad. If it goes up to £10k that's a different matter.
Though cutting edge tech has always been expensive, and you can never avoid the early adopter tax, but if you can afford it and like tech why not?? For me its more exciting than spending the same amount on a beach holiday in the Caribbean or a week in Vegas.
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 25th October 07:10
gangzoom said:
Really unbiased commentary, haven't watched most of it, but its very clearly 'beta' even for Tesla to the point where users who have had this feature activated have been called in person to explain the limitations of the software.
https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU
Interesting video - it possibly shows how 'choreographed' the videos uploaded so far have been. It makes 'Full Self Driving' look very stressful! He seems at his calmest when he just takes over and drives the car himself. This is a level 2 system masquerading as a level 5 system, I'm really not sure it should be on the roads.https://youtu.be/tMW6cAEgvbU
gangzoom said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Me personally no, I love tech, I have found memorise of getting excited when my dad wasted 2 months of savings on a 40MB external hard drive back in the days when high density floppy discs were still a thing.FSD option + AP3 cpu cost me £4.5k 12 months or so ago. A brand new MacBook Pro can be speced to over £6k these days and £1k+ smart phones seems 'normal', so the asking price back than wasn’t too bad. If it goes up to £10k that's a different matter.
Though cutting edge tech has always been expensive, and you can never avoid the early adopter tax, but if you can afford it and like tech why not?? For me its more exciting than spending the same amount on a beach holiday in the Caribbean or a week in Vegas.
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 25th October 07:10
gangzoom said:
For me its more exciting than spending the same amount on a beach holiday in the Caribbean or a week in Vegas.
You would be on this beautiful Caribbean holiday frolicking with a beautful lady (or man/chicken/octopus/whatever) though, so one would think it is more exciting than sitting in a car hyphen said:
You would be on this beautiful Caribbean holiday frolicking with a beautful lady (or man/chicken/octopus/whatever) though, so one would think it is more exciting than sitting in a car
....Or just do both? Though the humidity, even at night, isn't something mentioned in brochures or travel programs.Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 25th October 13:01
Perfect weather/lighting but impressive the AP system 'saw' pedestrians across on the other side of the road a long way off. 4.45 mark.
https://youtu.be/HH3WV2UVAsI
https://youtu.be/HH3WV2UVAsI
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