Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

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coetzeeh

2,641 posts

235 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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RichardAP said:
I’m interested in how they cope with doing PDI’s on a feast to famine basis, must be hard to keep an experienced team around with nothing to do for 2 months then rushed off or their feet, anyone know?
Issues are rectified after delivery. For example Model 3 being delivered now were shipped with a known fault where wiring to wing mirror was not connected.

TooLateForAName

4,725 posts

183 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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gangzoom said:
Tuna said:
We were solving dynamic path finding in the nineties. No AI involved at all.
Can you show us some of your work from the 90s?

Loads of people on here claim they can do all sort of stuff, most of the time its rubbish, but occasionally its ture. Am more interested in how any of this tech is developing rather than the end product. From my own personal work point of view we are now getting to the point where we have so much data on a person interms of medical treatment, presenting that data to a human is becoming almost impossible. The next step is how we create actual semi intelligent work process that can automate data processing so we can free up human brings to do the more complex stuff.

Sadly the world of clinical medicine is so far behind the automative world on this front its not even funny, even Imperial who have a direct partnership with DeepMind aren't light years ahead. If there is software that can guide a car through a series of risk based assessments/judgements there is no reason why we cannot use the same techniques to help reduce human errors in clinical medicine - which occurs on a daily basis, none of it is intentional.

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 17th December 08:26
A friend of mine was doing work on this 30 years ago.

Charlie was having his Ph.D funded by iirc IBM and was working on visual field identification and discrimination of static and moving objects/people.
Admittedly they had a different end purpose - they were looking to battlefield targetting.

I think the real developments in automotive systems will be coming now that LIDAR costs have come right down. The more detailed the model of the world you can build, the better you can understand it and respond to it. The depth of field that you can get with lidar should deliver a huge improvement.

RichardAP

276 posts

41 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
quotequote all
coetzeeh said:
RichardAP said:
I’m interested in how they cope with doing PDI’s on a feast to famine basis, must be hard to keep an experienced team around with nothing to do for 2 months then rushed off or their feet, anyone know?
Issues are rectified after delivery. For example Model 3 being delivered now were shipped with a known fault where wiring to wing mirror was not connected.
Sounds like a recipe for disaster. I guess early adopters would be more willing to accept issues at delivery but if I am spending £50k+ on a brand new car I expect it to be sorted before collection, or maybe I am fussy smile

Heres Johnny

7,175 posts

123 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
quotequote all
RichardAP said:
coetzeeh said:
RichardAP said:
I’m interested in how they cope with doing PDI’s on a feast to famine basis, must be hard to keep an experienced team around with nothing to do for 2 months then rushed off or their feet, anyone know?
Issues are rectified after delivery. For example Model 3 being delivered now were shipped with a known fault where wiring to wing mirror was not connected.
Sounds like a recipe for disaster. I guess early adopters would be more willing to accept issues at delivery but if I am spending £50k+ on a brand new car I expect it to be sorted before collection, or maybe I am fussy smile
You are quite right - and while I'm sure some don't have issues and some aren't that fussy (I think someone on here said they weren't othered about paint defects and misalignment because they were saving the planet, thats dedication) there are also plenty of stories of repeat trips to get the car fixed. While it is probably rare, if a car was in the workshop for 6 weeks during the first 3 months it would not be unique or alone.

Order66

6,726 posts

248 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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RichardAP said:
I’m interested in how they cope with doing PDI’s on a feast to famine basis, must be hard to keep an experienced team around with nothing to do for 2 months then rushed off or their feet, anyone know?
They don't PDI. Quality problems are rife. My car was delivered with a rear light cluster not even plugged in.

Smiljan

10,772 posts

196 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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LimJim said:
What's going on with guidance YTD? Havn't been following but just past a tesla garage and seemed busier than I've every seen it.
It's all the ones in for service, same at the Heathrow place a while ago. The whole trading estate there was full of cars in for service/repair.












































































I could be wrong, might just be awaiting delivery to customers rofl

phil4

1,203 posts

237 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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End of Quarter... the boats all arrive and cars are waiting for customers to collect. Same every quarter, big push at the end.

jay2000

119 posts

100 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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jamoor said:
hyphen said:
That mechanic from India can be found in the back streets garages of the UK biggrin
for double the price biggrin
Can i have his number and address? My dealer charges £180/hr

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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jay2000 said:
Can i have his number and address? My dealer charges £180/hr
That Is the joke laugh

Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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jamoor said:
jay2000 said:
Can i have his number and address? My dealer charges £180/hr
That Is the joke laugh
he means /oz wink

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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This is quite a good summary of the state of the art in self driving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq6FTXPSHYA

isleofthorns

472 posts

169 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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phil4 said:
End of Quarter... the boats all arrive and cars are waiting for customers to collect. Same every quarter, big push at the end.
Stopped by the Tesla dealer to see what used stock they had... salesman was not at all interested to discuss used cars, only new cars. He was very very keen to push for December deals....

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Friday 18th December 2020
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Government looking at how to keep tax revenue from drivers the same, as EVs increase.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55358100

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Friday 18th December 2020
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Government looking at how to keep tax revenue from drivers the same, as EVs increase.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55358100
They are going to tax environmentally friendly stuff next.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 18th December 2020
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Tsla shares move onto the big board on 21st

S&P 500, here it comes

Order66

6,726 posts

248 months

Friday 18th December 2020
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Government looking at how to keep tax revenue from drivers the same, as EVs increase.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55358100
Was always going to happen.I jumped on the EV bandwagon just now as it is absolutely the golden age for the EV:

Zero (or close to) BIK tax on a company car
No road tax
Free charging available, paid for by council (I'm in Scotland)
No CC in London
Home charging costs at approx 10% of what petrol/diesel costs would be for same range
Subsidised home charge-point installation, and able to have the company pay the rest

all of that will go away to equalise the tax loss in the next 10 years, might as well get it while I can. In the last 3 months I've done 5k miles in my EV and it's cost me personally about £20.

To bring this back on-topic, my Tesla was the best choice EV just now, but without all the cost breaks above I'd be buying a new ICE car. The Tesla has a lot of good points, but also an equal number of bad points, if it's appeal wasn't being propped up by the tax breaks I wouldn't be in one, I suspect many other drivers are the same. The lure of FSD and all the new tech isn't enough, especially when you experience the reality of the very underdeveloped software that is delivered. Tesla need to improve the product offering dramatically to keep me in their cars when the tax comes up to ICE levels, especially when the competition is advancing hugely.

LimJim

2,274 posts

41 months

Friday 18th December 2020
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Sounds like a 2030 kind of problem.

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Friday 18th December 2020
quotequote all
Order66 said:
Was always going to happen.I jumped on the EV bandwagon just now as it is absolutely the golden age for the EV:

Zero (or close to) BIK tax on a company car
No road tax
Free charging available, paid for by council (I'm in Scotland)
No CC in London
Home charging costs at approx 10% of what petrol/diesel costs would be for same range
Subsidised home charge-point installation, and able to have the company pay the rest

all of that will go away to equalise the tax loss in the next 10 years, might as well get it while I can. In the last 3 months I've done 5k miles in my EV and it's cost me personally about £20.

To bring this back on-topic, my Tesla was the best choice EV just now, but without all the cost breaks above I'd be buying a new ICE car. The Tesla has a lot of good points, but also an equal number of bad points, if it's appeal wasn't being propped up by the tax breaks I wouldn't be in one, I suspect many other drivers are the same. The lure of FSD and all the new tech isn't enough, especially when you experience the reality of the very underdeveloped software that is delivered. Tesla need to improve the product offering dramatically to keep me in their cars when the tax comes up to ICE levels, especially when the competition is advancing hugely.
The golden age was this tome last year as we had the grants

Now it’s less

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Friday 18th December 2020
quotequote all
LimJim said:
Sounds like a 2030 kind of problem.
Indeed.But I posted it for the "evs will be cheaper to run" brigade

The fact is that government will realise maintenance costs are lower for evs, and so along with lack of fuel tax, will also find a way to make up the lost revenue and jobs from tax in garages and parts.

Its not going to be cheaper long term.

Smiljan

10,772 posts

196 months

Friday 18th December 2020
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I've been following the various sites, podcasts etc.. over the last few days and there is such a massive chasm in opinions of what will happen to TSLA over the new few weeks its amazing.

No one seems to know. The Standard and Poor (S&P) 500 is such a confusing index of companies that I can't even work out why its seemingly so important for Tesla to join. What's in it for them?

I'm failing in my Google skills to find out who drops out of the index to make way for them.

Seems like they also decided to force all the trading on 1 day (today) meaning around $72 billion dollars worth of shares will need to be found and traded.

My question is - if the share price is so solid and Tesla fans so sure its undervalued and due to rise in multiples again and again - why would anyone sell them, let alone sell $72 billion worth in one day?

I'm just not grasping how it all works.

I also don't understand how an index can force investors to buy a particular share.

Before all these shenanigans I always thought the S&P Dow Jones was just a tracking index which kept track of a fixed index of companies rather than a club you join and have to abide by their rules.

All very confusing. No wonder the analysts don't have a clue where the share price will head.
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