Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

[Heres Johnny]

Burwood said:

An interesting fact-VW pay just USD 15B for Porsche.

I think the point is a little irrlevant as the Porsche family own much of VW and if they decided to roll Porsche (which they owned) into VW it will be for reasons more complicated than we can probably imagine in the world of German politics and tax. The acquisition is about as far as a normal acquisition as you can get, although it does appear to be much better value than Musk buying the family solar panel business,

[annodomini2]

Burwood said:

The 992 Tubo S has been tested at 0-60 in 2.2s. Not dissimilar money and will no doubt hold its value better. No question, more fun to drive.

I'm sure the Tesla is a very good car but their offering is unimpressive given they are a 600B company.

A relative minnow like Porsche still manages to generate a bottom line profit of USD 3.8B. Something i doubt Tesla will ever do. An interesting fact-VW pay just USD 15B for Porsche.

Tesla are an energy company as well as a car manufacturer.

[Greggsybabe]

Saying Tesla is an energy company is like saying Rolls Royce make commercial airliners. They make giant industrial/commercial sized batteries (which by all accounts are very good!) but they bought a solar roofing company which was owned by the Musk family and Solarcity have more lawsuites against them than they do profitable jobs.

It's ok because 2? years if not longer ago Elon said you could put a solar roof on your Tesla, run it as a Robotaxi all day and your car would not only not depreciate but would actively make you money. I read somewhere last week they put 1000approx solar roofs onto cars before giving up on that idea.

[ZesPak]

Greggsybabe said:

It's ok because 2? years if not longer ago Elon said you could put a solar roof on your Tesla, run it as a Robotaxi all day and your car would not only not depreciate but would actively make you money. I read somewhere last week they put 1000approx solar roofs onto cars before giving up on that idea.

Are there any sources on that? I thought anyone with half a brain knew that either your car needs to get a lot more frugal or your panels need a lot more gain to get this to work?

[Burwood]

annodomini2 said:

Burwood said:

The 992 Tubo S has been tested at 0-60 in 2.2s. Not dissimilar money and will no doubt hold its value better. No question, more fun to drive.

I'm sure the Tesla is a very good car but their offering is unimpressive given they are a 600B company.

A relative minnow like Porsche still manages to generate a bottom line profit of USD 3.8B. Something i doubt Tesla will ever do. An interesting fact-VW pay just USD 15B for Porsche.

Tesla are an energy company as well as a car manufacturer.

sure they are. Less than 5% of revenue (energy) and lose money on everything they sell. It's FSD or nothing.

Edited by Burwood on Monday 14th June 17:59

[Burwood]

ZesPak said:

Greggsybabe said:

It's ok because 2? years if not longer ago Elon said you could put a solar roof on your Tesla, run it as a Robotaxi all day and your car would not only not depreciate but would actively make you money. I read somewhere last week they put 1000approx solar roofs onto cars before giving up on that idea.

Are there any sources on that? I thought anyone with half a brain knew that either your car needs to get a lot more frugal or your panels need a lot more gain to get this to work?

No mate-rocket boosters on the Roaster to hover like Michael J Fox. Musk said just 50cm otherwise it might be dangerous

[off_again]

So the videos of the Model S Plaid are hitting the internet!

https://osultan.smugmug.com/Cars/Refresh-Model-S/n...

and a corresponding article from Jalopnik:

https://jalopnik.com/real-world-video-of-the-tesla...

I dont quite have the same take as Torchinsky from Jalopnik, but that steering wheel is pretty bad. I didnt realize that the Plaid model does away with a gear selector AND indicators!!! Now its buttons on the steering wheel and you have to use either the 'auto gear selector' or screen to select a gear. What could possibly go wrong? Seriously, this is crazy!

What happens if the screen goes blank or needs a reboot? It does happen and Tesla owners have commented on the screen unreliability multiple times. As for the indicators - I even laugh at Ferrari for these things, but at least they put them on different sides of the wheel! As for turning the yoke, or is that joke, for tighter turns? Yeah, I can absolutely see that getting screwed up multiple times. There is a reason why EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER WENT WITH A WHEEL....

On the positive side though, really like the sign identification in the drivers screen - nicely showing up stop signs and stuff. That is great and we really need that type of thing in all cars! In fact, I really like the lane change stuff from Kia too - flash up the rear blind section of the car in the direction that you are indicating - genius! Lets use these technical features to supplement safety and give us more and clearer indicators of things around us. Screw stupid gear selectors and yoke steering wheels.

[aparna]

I could get behind the lack of stalks if the buttons are responsive. However I noted a ew false presses

I would miss the steering wheel though. I like feeling it slide through my hands. Looks awkward for city driving.

But I can imagine it’s possibly ergonomic to rest on, keeping autopilot happy.

I think it looks cool though, without stalks. I like the sleek.

[off_again]

Oh dear, bored and decided to go down the rabbit hole of Reddit Tesla groups....

So we have covered the whole Plaid and the roll-out for the 0-60 figure. But what I didnt realize is that they have a track record of this! Seems that for the 'performance' versions, they would routinely have the roll-out number, but for the non-performance ones use the correct figure - making the performance gap look bigger. Thats sneaky!

The Plaid is supposed to have a screen tilt feature - currently not available and will be provided with 'an over the air update'.... mmmm

That auto shift feature - yeah, thats beta and not official yet.... nice!

Playing games? Yeah, no details and no evidence that its actually available - I still call BS on that! Exactly how do the game developers get a registered and supported version of their game on a Tesla again?

Plaid doesnt get the 'next generation battery tech' that was promised, which was little more than a slightly bigger battery cell....

Yet the cultists lap it up. If any other manufacturer pulled this type of stunt, they would get hit hard. Yet Tesla consistently keeps trying to do this and some how gets away with it.

[off_again]

aparna said:

I think it looks cool though, without stalks. I like the sleek.

Agreed - the simplicity of the interior does bring its own differentiation and, I am going to say it, 'luxury' to what they are trying to do. Volvo talk about the Swedish design philosophy, this is the Tesla one. And there is nothing wrong with that.

[Heres Johnny]

off_again said:

So the videos of the Model S Plaid are hitting the internet!

https://osultan.smugmug.com/Cars/Refresh-Model-S/n...

and a corresponding article from Jalopnik:

https://jalopnik.com/real-world-video-of-the-tesla...

I dont quite have the same take as Torchinsky from Jalopnik, but that steering wheel is pretty bad. I didnt realize that the Plaid model does away with a gear selector AND indicators!!! Now its buttons on the steering wheel and you have to use either the 'auto gear selector' or screen to select a gear. What could possibly go wrong? Seriously, this is crazy!

What happens if the screen goes blank or needs a reboot? It does happen and Tesla owners have commented on the screen unreliability multiple times. As for the indicators - I even laugh at Ferrari for these things, but at least they put them on different sides of the wheel! As for turning the yoke, or is that joke, for tighter turns? Yeah, I can absolutely see that getting screwed up multiple times. There is a reason why EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER WENT WITH A WHEEL....

On the positive side though, really like the sign identification in the drivers screen - nicely showing up stop signs and stuff. That is great and we really need that type of thing in all cars! In fact, I really like the lane change stuff from Kia too - flash up the rear blind section of the car in the direction that you are indicating - genius! Lets use these technical features to supplement safety and give us more and clearer indicators of things around us. Screw stupid gear selectors and yoke steering wheels.

I agree it’s not great but you need to do more research before shooting from the hip on some of your comments, there are physical buttons for drive as well, no different to cars like Aston Martin

It’s been well known the battery was the same. You’re just showing you didn’t know what was coming and now you’re surprised,

Edited by Heres Johnny on Monday 14th June 23:05

[Smiljan]

Heres Johnny said:

I agree it’s not great but you need to do more research before shooting from the hip on some of your comments, there are physical buttons for drive as well, no different to cars like Aston Martin

It’s a capacitive touch panel but you’re right, the auto shifting gimmick is just that. It’s yet another “Beta” feature and is disabled by default. The normal way is to select drive direction on the touchscreen.

[off_again]

Smiljan said:

It’s a capacitive touch panel but you’re right, the auto shifting gimmick is just that. It’s yet another “Beta” feature and is disabled by default. The normal way is to select drive direction on the touchscreen.

Mmmm, interesting. Looks like they have given it some thought here, but still concerned. As someone who has struggled with three different cars with electronic gear selectors and parking brakes, this is absolutely going to be a nightmare in years to come.

There are concerns about serviceability and designed obsolescence, which are fair. This just seems to be a trinket for it’s own sake which lead to problems down the line. As if parking brake sensors and gear selectors never go wrong of course……

[Heres Johnny]

The outgoing cars have an electric gear selector. More nonsense being spoken.

[Greggsybabe]

Putting aside for one moment who is right or wrong on a couple of the above things, do you not think that it is so unclear what is being delivered is a pretty fundamental disappointment from Tesla?

Usually when you promote a number of "upgrades" as the selling points of the new model, the first thing you want to make sure is working and available is these items? Not releasing them in various stages of Beta? I'm not saying this happens 100% across the industry but that we keep having this conversations is down to Tesla's opaqueness as a company and their repeated release of unfinished projects.

[aparna]

I was thinking this morning, as i did the same three point turn out of my drive for the 200th time, it would make me smile if the reverse shift was auto.

And for better or worse, these little gimmicks that make you smile, punch above their weight in terms of customer satisfaction.

Musk is good at spotting this kind of thing, you have to give him credit for that. How much money has the dumb painting app keeping kids busy made him?

[Heres Johnny]

Greggsybabe said:

Putting aside for one moment who is right or wrong on a couple of the above things, do you not think that it is so unclear what is being delivered is a pretty fundamental disappointment from Tesla?

Usually when you promote a number of "upgrades" as the selling points of the new model, the first thing you want to make sure is working and available is these items? Not releasing them in various stages of Beta? I'm not saying this happens 100% across the industry but that we keep having this conversations is down to Tesla's opaqueness as a company and their repeated release of unfinished projects.

I think the updated Model S is a real let down, I have a problem with people being critiucal of irrelevant points which are either no different to bfore or are just wrong. It's like listening to a Daily Mail reading complaining about the youth of today. The gear select is electric, its moved from a control stalk to optionally automatic, on the screen and if all else fails a button. Is it likely to be clunky, sure, but to be critical of it being an electic select if laughable, gear select aren't physical on these cars and haven't been on automatics for years if ever. Next we'll be told the volume isn't a knob connected to a potentiometer and therefore useless too.

aparna said:

I was thinking this morning, as i did the same three point turn out of my drive for the 200th time, it would make me smile if the reverse shift was auto.

And for better or worse, these little gimmicks that make you smile, punch above their weight in terms of customer satisfaction.

Musk is good at spotting this kind of thing, you have to give him credit for that. How much money has the dumb painting app keeping kids busy made him?

It's either going to work well (although I can predict lots of car bumps where the car went the opposite way to expected and caught the driver off guard) or its going to be a PIA. I don't feel the need to drop the gear select personally, and I don't know why they didn't make it automatic but leave the select stalk in place as some sort of stepping stone. Musk is focused on the end state and not the transition, its the same with autopilot and FSD, the compeition have better, more engaging and intuitive driver assist systems because thats what they're designed for, Musk sees the current phase as an necessary evil and is investing little in the transient operability, trouble us, this transition period is already 4 years long and likely to be another 2 years+ and not everybody wants to pay for it even if he does pull it off. .

[Dave Hedgehog]

off_again said:

but that steering wheel is pretty bad. I didnt realize that the Plaid model does away with a gear selector AND indicators!!! Now its buttons on the steering wheel and you have to use either the 'auto gear selector' or screen to select a gear. What could possibly go wrong? Seriously, this is crazy!

yep its a step backward design but preumably arguable becuase 'FSD' is just about to happen honest

however it appears to confirm what Monkey said in that most Telsa drivers have zero interest or understanding of driving and just want drive miss daisy or show off to passengers the break neck acceleration

Tesla Raj does a decent job of going over it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO_X7zn5huA

[NDA]

Dave Hedgehog said:

however it appears to confirm what Monkey said in that most Telsa drivers have zero interest or understanding of driving and just want drive miss daisy or show off to passengers the break neck acceleration

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate - as an owner of multiple cars (Murcielago, Ford GT, Vanquish etc) I also have a Tesla. My mates with Tesla's also have some interesting other cars too. I would say I have a vague understanding of driving having driven in the Le Mans Classic and similar events.

But judge away.

[SWoll]

NDA said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

however it appears to confirm what Monkey said in that most Telsa drivers have zero interest or understanding of driving and just want drive miss daisy or show off to passengers the break neck acceleration

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate - as an owner of multiple cars (Murcielago, Ford GT, Vanquish etc) I also have a Tesla. My mates with Tesla's also have some interesting other cars too. I would say I have a vague understanding of driving having driven in the Le Mans Classic and similar events.

But judge away.

He did say 'most'.

An accurate statement for 99% of cars on the road I'd suggest.