Discussion
xjay1337 said:
I don't see how I have it wrong.
I said many fit the usage pattern and could use an EV.
But there are some who don't.
That seems pretty fair and true?
Because EV tech won't improve in the next 12 years.... Range more than doubled in the last 8....I said many fit the usage pattern and could use an EV.
But there are some who don't.
That seems pretty fair and true?
I should imagine in 2032 when ICE is banned the average EV will go 350-450miles and charge in 15mins. You will be able to buy EVs which go 500miles+ Still not enough?
jjwilde said:
xjay1337 said:
I don't see how I have it wrong.
I said many fit the usage pattern and could use an EV.
But there are some who don't.
That seems pretty fair and true?
Because EV tech won't improve in the next 12 years.... Range more than doubled in the last 8....I said many fit the usage pattern and could use an EV.
But there are some who don't.
That seems pretty fair and true?
I should imagine in 2032 when ICE is banned the average EV will go 350-450miles and charge in 15mins. Still not enough?
Where I said once you can get a 300 mile range in say 30 minutes.
AND there are enough chargers to support the amount of people who will be using them.
AND charger networks at home are good enough
Then EV's will be good.
But I don't see how electric cars will get SIGNIFICANTLY better than what we are at currently.
It will get better. But it won't double again in the next 8 years..
But I hope that it does.
SWoll said:
xjay1337 said:
If you read the debate over the last few pages I have never once said that EV's do not work, or conceded that for your "average user" there are many who fit the usage pattern.
But there are also some whom don't, either through journey distances / requirements / charging infrastructure / cost.
Your issue is as above. I think you have it the wrong way around and the number of people who have requirements that EV's currently don't meet are a significantly smaller number than those that they do. (removing purchase cost from the equation as very difficult to quantify)But there are also some whom don't, either through journey distances / requirements / charging infrastructure / cost.
Posts like this:
xjay1337 said:
You should be able to fully charge your electric car home in 1-2 hours if required.
Not saying that everyone NEEDS that but a lot of people will.
Are just a complete detachment from reality imho.Not saying that everyone NEEDS that but a lot of people will.
This is implying "a lot of people" do 400km during the day and then another 400km after charging home for a couple of hours.
Mind you, these are people that use 50 l of diesel/day. A lot of them apparently.
xjay1337 said:
But I don't see how electric cars will get SIGNIFICANTLY better than what we are at currently.
It will get better. But it won't double again in the next 8 years..
My EV is BY FAR the fastest car I've owned and it costs pennies to run. It beats rivals with a big V8 and is significantly cheaper to run. It has more storage than anything else in it's class because of smart packaging. The fact that it sits on a huge battery makes it so that all systems (infotainment, heater,...) can just keep running for days without superfluous noise and stink.It will get better. But it won't double again in the next 8 years..
Pretty soon we'll have 4wd vehicles with an engine for each wheel. These will do to offroad performance what the Model S did to straight line acceleration.
And if that's not enough, take the bike through a tunnel on a cold day and take a good deep breath or two and tell me to my face EV's aren't significantly better in any way than what we have now.
Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 18th February 14:55
I'm not the best at explaining but some people must be being purposefully obtuse.
I'm not saying that everyone will have such usage patterns.
But the infrastructure SHOULD be designed and installed to support it, if required by the individual use cases
A previous poster said something about smart charging, and fully charging and then selling back the electric, or part charging, or time-based charging.
These are all options.
If you want people to adopt EV , then they need to be equally as easy or better to live with as an ICE car and/or introduce a significant cost saving, AT THE MOMENT..... for around 40% of the people who don't have off road parking ........ and the amount of people who do lots of miles..... or perhaps live in more remote regions...... they are significantly less easy to live and of course they are quite a bit more expensive than an equivalent ICE car, so you need to do a lot of miles to re-coup the savings. But then you keep spouting "aVeRaGe MiLeS pEr YeAr iS 78O0" , so you won't "save" the money on fuel
I'm not saying that everyone will have such usage patterns.
But the infrastructure SHOULD be designed and installed to support it, if required by the individual use cases
A previous poster said something about smart charging, and fully charging and then selling back the electric, or part charging, or time-based charging.
These are all options.
If you want people to adopt EV , then they need to be equally as easy or better to live with as an ICE car and/or introduce a significant cost saving, AT THE MOMENT..... for around 40% of the people who don't have off road parking ........ and the amount of people who do lots of miles..... or perhaps live in more remote regions...... they are significantly less easy to live and of course they are quite a bit more expensive than an equivalent ICE car, so you need to do a lot of miles to re-coup the savings. But then you keep spouting "aVeRaGe MiLeS pEr YeAr iS 78O0" , so you won't "save" the money on fuel
Everyone 'should' have dedicated fibre. It's relatively easy to install for 90% of the population, but it will always be a struggle to sort out the last 10% who live rurally etc. But the 10% not having fibre is not really an argument for holding back rolling out the 90%.
Some countries take the all or nothing approach. But do we live in that kind of country? Maybe the 10% will never have fibre. I'm sure everyone in singapore will have all the range they need.
Some countries take the all or nothing approach. But do we live in that kind of country? Maybe the 10% will never have fibre. I'm sure everyone in singapore will have all the range they need.
jjwilde said:
Because EV tech won't improve in the next 12 years.... Range more than doubled in the last 8....
I should imagine in 2032 when ICE is banned the average EV will go 350-450miles and charge in 15mins. You will be able to buy EVs which go 500miles+ Still not enough?
errrrmmmmm, nope. The sale of NEW non-EV's will be banned for the rest of us using dino-juice we'll slowly get to be a smaller group but ICE vehicles will not be bannedI should imagine in 2032 when ICE is banned the average EV will go 350-450miles and charge in 15mins. You will be able to buy EVs which go 500miles+ Still not enough?
Sambucket said:
Everyone 'should' have dedicated fibre. It's relatively easy to install for 90% of the population, but it will always be a struggle to sort out the last 10% who live rurally etc. But the 10% not having fibre is not really an argument for holding back rolling out the 90%.
Some countries take the all or nothing approach. But do we live in that kind of country? Maybe the 10% will never have fibre. I'm sure everyone in singapore will have all the range they need.
That's not what I'm saying. Some countries take the all or nothing approach. But do we live in that kind of country? Maybe the 10% will never have fibre. I'm sure everyone in singapore will have all the range they need.
If 90% of people IE everyone outside of Scottish highlands or some random part of Wales, because they want to live far away, then OK, sort of fair enough.
But there is not a single public charger within 5 miles of me and I live in a fairly large town. In Fact the closest public charger is a Hyundai dealer......6 miles away.
As I said when there is not only a plan, but a project manager / leader , Government allocated budget , agreement with private charging companies for their part , agreement with housing developers for their part, a single universal app that works for everything , and timeline to install public chargers and also home chargers , then great
But there is not. So.........
xjay1337 said:
That's not what I'm saying.
If 90% of people IE everyone outside of Scottish highlands or some random part of Wales, because they want to live far away, then OK, sort of fair enough.
But there is not a single public charger within 5 miles of me and I live in a fairly large town. In Fact the closest public charger is a Hyundai dealer......6 miles away.
As I said when there is not only a plan, but a project manager / leader , Government allocated budget , agreement with private charging companies for their part , agreement with housing developers for their part, a single universal app that works for everything , and timeline to install public chargers and also home chargers , then great
But there is not. So.........
there kind of is a plan. I havn't read it word for word, but I don't think all the things on your list are necessary to kick the early stages off.If 90% of people IE everyone outside of Scottish highlands or some random part of Wales, because they want to live far away, then OK, sort of fair enough.
But there is not a single public charger within 5 miles of me and I live in a fairly large town. In Fact the closest public charger is a Hyundai dealer......6 miles away.
As I said when there is not only a plan, but a project manager / leader , Government allocated budget , agreement with private charging companies for their part , agreement with housing developers for their part, a single universal app that works for everything , and timeline to install public chargers and also home chargers , then great
But there is not. So.........
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reducin...
Many countries consider fibre internet a basic necessity. Some even prioritise it over cars.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 18th February 15:33
xjay1337 said:
I don't see how I have it wrong.
I said many fit the usage pattern and could use an EV.
But there are some who don't.
That seems pretty fair and true?
Nope, you said the opposite. Check your original post.I said many fit the usage pattern and could use an EV.
But there are some who don't.
That seems pretty fair and true?
xjay1337 said:
If you read the debate over the last few pages I have never once said that EV's do not work, or conceded that for your "average user" there are some who fit the usage pattern.
But there are also many whom don't, either through journey distances / requirements / charging infrastructure / cost.
I altered it and put the correct way around in bold.But there are also many whom don't, either through journey distances / requirements / charging infrastructure / cost.
xjay1337 said:
If you read the debate over the last few pages I have never once said that EV's do not work, or conceded that for your "average user" there are many who fit the usage pattern.
But there are also some whom don't, either through journey distances / requirements / charging infrastructure / cost.
Anyway, I'm done. If people honestly think that an infrastructure should be built purely for a tiny percentage of users or that doing 100's of miles per day on anything like a regular basis is something most people do then you really need to get out more.But there are also some whom don't, either through journey distances / requirements / charging infrastructure / cost.
Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 18th February 15:36
xjay1337 said:
I'm not the best at explaining but some people must be being purposefully obtuse.
Agreed and definitely agreed.xjay1337 said:
If you want people to adopt EV , then they need to be equally as easy or better to live with as an ICE car and/or introduce a significant cost saving,
They actually are... for most people.xjay1337 said:
AT THE MOMENT..... for around 40% of the people who don't have off road parking
True, but even for most of these it will depend on mileage. I know a couple of Dutch people who live with one without off road parking. One plugs it in at work once a week, the other one has a charger closeby he, again, needs once a week. So no issue and even these people never need to visit a petrol station or wait at a charger. Infrastructure at work and in the street are key here, the Netherlands are way ahead.xjay1337 said:
........ and the amount of people who do lots of miles.....
I do 40k km/year and often do more than 300km/day. Who are we talking about? I can agree that there might be some professional drivers, but with a 600km/h charging available in lots of places, even those should be covered. The longer range EV's are up to 500km effective range. You'd almost fill a day trying to drive that on anything but constant highways.xjay1337 said:
or perhaps live in more remote regions.....
What's their issue again? Are you talking about those people in Siberia that need to do 300km to get to the shop? Or are you referring to people somewhere in the UK? I'm genuinely interested in this argument.xjay1337 said:
and of course they are quite a bit more expensive than an equivalent ICE car, so you need to do a lot of miles to re-coup the savings. But then you keep spouting "aVeRaGe MiLeS pEr YeAr iS 78O0" , so you won't "save" the money on fuel
Purchase needs to and actually is coming down.irocfan said:
errrrmmmmm, nope. The sale of NEW non-EV's will be banned for the rest of us using dino-juice we'll slowly get to be a smaller group but ICE vehicles will not be banned
I am well aware of this. I meant when the sale of ICE is banned. You will be able to keep polluting the local streets for (I hope) not too much longer than that.ZesPak said:
xjay1337 said:
or perhaps live in more remote regions.....
What's their issue again? Are you talking about those people in Siberia that need to do 300km to get to the shop? Or are you referring to people somewhere in the UK? I'm genuinely interested in this argument..
Here is a snapshot from GUL where 24 hour access public chargers are shown.
You can see there are quite a few parts of the UK that have a lack of chargers.
I don't believe this shows Tesla chargers.
And I'm sure there are some chargers in some areas that are there, and some which say they are there but not, but overall you get the picture.
tamore said:
was reading an article the other day which was saying market forces in electricity production could mean that at average cost per kW/h in the states could fall as low as 3c from 12c. if electricity became as cheap as that, the EV uptake graph would be extremely steep.
UK market is around 15ppkWh at present. However, overnight rates are as little as 5ppkWh. People on agile tariffs are seeing 4-10ppkWh consistently outside the afternoon peak.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff