EVs in a jam.

[feef]

In terms of usage, I do a higher than average annual mileage and have quite a few long trips in there.

A Tesla or one of the others with a decent range (Kona or e-Niro come to mind) would suit me for pretty much all of my usage.

The Tesla would be more appealing due to the Supercharger network and faster charging when needed.

My typical week is :
monday : Cambs to Tunbridge Wells and back : There's destination charing in the carpark I use if I need it, but if I leave the house with a full charge then I won't need to.

Tuesday - Friday : around town. Can easily be done sticking the car on charge at home.
Saturday : into Cambridge and back : 20 miles or so each way. No problem.

Longer trips :
visiting my folks in Scotland or in France.
Alps for skiing.

Even taking into account cold weather performance on the latter, I can do those trips without a significant increase in journey time by using Superchargers. Stop for a charge after a couple of hours driving, go for a week, grab a coffee and you've got your 20-30 minutes, 80% charge and off you go.

I used to be quite happy to drive till the tank was empty and it's not unknown to go for 5, 6 or 7 hours without stopping, but in reality, it's not recommended and now that I'm usually driving those longer trips at least with my son in the car, more frequent stops are pretty normal anyway.

So for me, at least, even with a higher than average mileage requirement, an EV would do the job perfectly well.

I'm waiting for the model Y to come out. I think that'll be the one that sways me finally.

[xjay1337]

rscott said:

Just to point out that although 40% of properties don't have driveways, it's only 16% of car owners who don't, according to PWC ( https://www.pwc.co.uk/who-we-are/regional-sites/mi... )

As for requiring charging points to be included in all new builds - I guess you missed the consultation announced over 6 months ago about changing planning regs to require that. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/electric-car-ch...


We don't need enough chargers to support 100% EV takeup yet though, for the simple reason that would take at least 10 years for even 80% of the cars on the road to be EVs, given the average life expectancy of vehicles. So planning a ramp-up in installations over that period seems entirely sensible.

"off street parking".

Does this mean that they include people who live in apartment blocks who have an allocated parking bay in a communal car park?

Certainly I would say around 30-40% of people who I know who have cars DON'T have proper, attached parking (whether that be a driveway or garage). Maybe 20% of them are purely on-street, the other 20% live in apartments where they have allocated parking, sure it's "off street" but it's not , if you know what I mean.

Small data pool, I know, but the wording is suspect.

[R Mutt]

xjay1337 said:

rscott said:

Just to point out that although 40% of properties don't have driveways, it's only 16% of car owners who don't, according to PWC ( https://www.pwc.co.uk/who-we-are/regional-sites/mi... )

As for requiring charging points to be included in all new builds - I guess you missed the consultation announced over 6 months ago about changing planning regs to require that. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/electric-car-ch...


We don't need enough chargers to support 100% EV takeup yet though, for the simple reason that would take at least 10 years for even 80% of the cars on the road to be EVs, given the average life expectancy of vehicles. So planning a ramp-up in installations over that period seems entirely sensible.

"off street parking".

Does this mean that they include people who live in apartment blocks who have an allocated parking bay in a communal car park?

Certainly I would say around 30-40% of people who I know who have cars DON'T have proper, attached parking (whether that be a driveway or garage). Maybe 20% of them are purely on-street, the other 20% live in apartments where they have allocated parking, sure it's "off street" but it's not , if you know what I mean.

Small data pool, I know, but the wording is suspect.

Yes you have off-street parking without access to a charger which will be millions of people like myself in flats, probably offset by a smaller number who can park outside their house and run a cable across the pavement which I'd probably have to do at my mum's.

[rscott]

xjay1337 said:

rscott said:

Just to point out that although 40% of properties don't have driveways, it's only 16% of car owners who don't, according to PWC ( https://www.pwc.co.uk/who-we-are/regional-sites/mi... )

As for requiring charging points to be included in all new builds - I guess you missed the consultation announced over 6 months ago about changing planning regs to require that. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/electric-car-ch...


We don't need enough chargers to support 100% EV takeup yet though, for the simple reason that would take at least 10 years for even 80% of the cars on the road to be EVs, given the average life expectancy of vehicles. So planning a ramp-up in installations over that period seems entirely sensible.

"off street parking".

Does this mean that they include people who live in apartment blocks who have an allocated parking bay in a communal car park?

Certainly I would say around 30-40% of people who I know who have cars DON'T have proper, attached parking (whether that be a driveway or garage). Maybe 20% of them are purely on-street, the other 20% live in apartments where they have allocated parking, sure it's "off street" but it's not , if you know what I mean.

Small data pool, I know, but the wording is suspect.

How much of that "off street parking" couldn't have EV charging points installed at some point over the next 10 years? I'd hazard a guess that the majority of bays in communal car parks could have points installed without needing massive re-engineering.

A quick Google suggests many new planning policies from district/borough councils require one or more charging point per new dwelling and that communal spaces have 10% charging points, with cabling in place to allow that number to increase easily.

Seems like a sensible approach - start with a number adequate for predicted EV takeup then increase it as demand increases.

[wisbech]

Flat we live in has off street parking (underground) and each space, while they don’t have chargers, has access to power so charger can be installed with minimum fuss. Currently have hybrid, next car will be electric (cost/ benefit of electric over hybrid still didn’t make financial sense when i bought last year, but in 7-9 years probably will do)

[PushedDover]

Impossible

xjay1337 Insists this is not feasible

[R Mutt]

rscott said:

xjay1337 said:

rscott said:

Just to point out that although 40% of properties don't have driveways, it's only 16% of car owners who don't, according to PWC ( https://www.pwc.co.uk/who-we-are/regional-sites/mi... )

As for requiring charging points to be included in all new builds - I guess you missed the consultation announced over 6 months ago about changing planning regs to require that. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/electric-car-ch...


We don't need enough chargers to support 100% EV takeup yet though, for the simple reason that would take at least 10 years for even 80% of the cars on the road to be EVs, given the average life expectancy of vehicles. So planning a ramp-up in installations over that period seems entirely sensible.

"off street parking".

Does this mean that they include people who live in apartment blocks who have an allocated parking bay in a communal car park?

Certainly I would say around 30-40% of people who I know who have cars DON'T have proper, attached parking (whether that be a driveway or garage). Maybe 20% of them are purely on-street, the other 20% live in apartments where they have allocated parking, sure it's "off street" but it's not , if you know what I mean.

Small data pool, I know, but the wording is suspect.

How much of that "off street parking" couldn't have EV charging points installed at some point over the next 10 years? I'd hazard a guess that the majority of bays in communal car parks could have points installed without needing massive re-engineering.

A quick Google suggests many new planning policies from district/borough councils require one or more charging point per new dwelling and that communal spaces have 10% charging points, with cabling in place to allow that number to increase easily.

Seems like a sensible approach - start with a number adequate for predicted EV takeup then increase it as demand increases.

Most of this land will not be owned by the council so no mandate or incentive from central governmen or council's own environmental policy to install them.

[ZesPak]

R Mutt said:

Most of this land will not be owned by the council so no mandate or incentive from central governmen or council's own environmental policy to install them.

So? The issue was not "people won't install them" the issue was "some people CAN'T have a charger".
These people can have a charger without too much trouble.

[R Mutt]

ZesPak said:

R Mutt said:

Most of this land will not be owned by the council so no mandate or incentive from central governmen or council's own environmental policy to install them.

So? The issue was not "people won't install them" the issue was "some people CAN'T have a charger".
These people can have a charger without too much trouble.

That can't if they don't own the land.

This will belong to the freeholder. Not the property owner or council.

[xjay1337]

PushedDover said:

Impossible

xjay1337 Insists this is not feasible

[irocfan]

ZesPak said:

R Mutt said:

Most of this land will not be owned by the council so no mandate or incentive from central governmen or council's own environmental policy to install them.

So? The issue was not "people won't install them" the issue was "some people CAN'T have a charger".
These people can have a charger without too much trouble.

can hardly wait to see pavements covered in EV-leads in today's litigious society

In all seriousness there will be issues to overcome (even silly things like 'pranksters' pulling out charging leads) and I have no doubt that most of them will be. Interesting times ahead

[R Mutt]

irocfan said:

ZesPak said:

R Mutt said:

Most of this land will not be owned by the council so no mandate or incentive from central governmen or council's own environmental policy to install them.

So? The issue was not "people won't install them" the issue was "some people CAN'T have a charger".
These people can have a charger without too much trouble.

can hardly wait to see pavements covered in EV-leads in today's litigious society

In all seriousness there will be issues to overcome (even silly things like 'pranksters' pulling out charging leads) and I have no doubt that most of them will be. Interesting times ahead

Moreover my development is downed and managed by a 3rd party who can barely change a lightbulb and completely ignored enquiries about fibre optic to the property by a supplier. There's no way they would install charging points in the car park even if residents agreed to it.

[rscott]

R Mutt said:

irocfan said:

ZesPak said:

R Mutt said:

Most of this land will not be owned by the council so no mandate or incentive from central governmen or council's own environmental policy to install them.

So? The issue was not "people won't install them" the issue was "some people CAN'T have a charger".
These people can have a charger without too much trouble.

can hardly wait to see pavements covered in EV-leads in today's litigious society

In all seriousness there will be issues to overcome (even silly things like 'pranksters' pulling out charging leads) and I have no doubt that most of them will be. Interesting times ahead

Moreover my development is downed and managed by a 3rd party who can barely change a lightbulb and completely ignored enquiries about fibre optic to the property by a supplier. There's no way they would install charging points in the car park even if residents agreed to it.

However, any new developments (be they council or private) would need to meet the planning rules set down by the local authorities, which may include requirements for charging points.

[Mikebentley]

I think a lot of the home chargers if not all will be paid for by early adopters. If I get an EV then the relative cost is peanuts. I also feel it might benefit the future value of my home.

As uptake increases there will be solutions to the charging infrastructure. The reality is though most don’t do my sort of mileage so many will be able to cope with a once a week top up elsewhere and park their car on the street overnight.

At this stage it really is a non issue.

[R Mutt]

rscott said:

However, any new developments (be they council or private) would need to meet the planning rules set down by the local authorities, which may include requirements for charging points.

Ours are still consulting on higher parking charges for more polluting vehicles. You don't expect them to implement anything that might actually cost them, while benefiting the environment and people like myself who want to buy electric do you?

[kambites]

The way things are at the moment councils can't afford to spend more money on anything; most of them they can't afford to spend what they already are. Thus any push towards EVs at the local council level will either come in terms of taxation or forcing private industry to fund things like chargers (or both).

Edited by kambites on Thursday 27th February 09:51

[R Mutt]

kambites said:

R Mutt said:

rscott said:

However, any new developments (be they council or private) would need to meet the planning rules set down by the local authorities, which may include requirements for charging points.

Ours are still consulting on higher parking charges for more polluting vehicles. You don't expect them to implement anything that might actually cost them, while benefiting the environment and people like myself who want to buy electric do you?

The way things are at the moment councils can't afford to spend more money on anything; most of them they can't afford to spend what they already are. Thus any push towards EVs at the local council level will either come in terms of taxation or forcing private industry to fund things like chargers (or both).

We got a nice new town hall.

But TfL really should be doing this with the proceeds from ULEZ etc.

[kambites]

OH you're in London? That's something of a special case.

And yes, I'd agree that profits from the CC zone and ULEZ should probably be ring-fenced for EV infrastructure in some manner. Well that and perhaps improving (both in terms of emissions and services) public transport.

[irocfan]

kambites said:

And yes, I'd agree that profits from the CC zone and ULEZ should probably be ring-fenced for EV infrastructure in some manner. Well that and perhaps improving (both in terms of emissions and services) public transport.

I highlighted the issue...

[Mr E]

A vaguely related note, and not surprising given that physics is a thing.

Changed commute. I now go down a motorway for a junction.
When you only have the equivalent of about 3 litres of petrol in the tank (24Kwh) the difference between 50 and 70mph is really significant. Motorway speeds drop my efficiency from 4 miles/Kw to about 3.3 miles/Kw.

When you see a hen 1 leaf drafting a truck on the inside lane, now you know why.