Home charger woes

[Amateurish]

If it's a lease, don't worry about it. Just charge in whatever way works for you.

[Amateurish]

Rob-s5mok said:

Amateurish said:

I have installed a home charger in the same scenario as you describe without having to upgrade the 100A fuse. Mine was done by Pod Point and it has load balancing which varies the power to avoid tripping the main fuse.

Maybe they are a better option: Jaguar 'recommend' both Pod Point and Chargemaster: I opted for the latter for reasons that escape me now.....;-)

Your electricity bill will rocket! I often get up the morning and I've already used over 100 kWh overnight!

[danp]

Moonpie21 said:

Please forgive me for hijacking this thread with a sort of relevant question as I have been pondering when/how I will switch to an electric car. I regularly only do 12 miles a day and maybe 40 miles at the weekend, not a lot I know, and the odd long distance ish trip of maybe 100 miles once a month. But I want a nice car to do it in, so have been considering a lease on an i-Pace.

Now it's a lease so this shouldn't really matter to me but whats good for the battery?

The scenarios as I see them:

1) Get home every night plug it in to a 13amp wall socket and top it up over night.
2) Let it run down a little bit more and maybe plug it in to the 13amp wall socket every other night or where ever the sweet spot is of gaining 100% battery to start the day after a charge. Meaning should one of those longer trips come up no planning required just plug it in the night before.
3) Let it run all the way down and then just charge over night every night till it gets full and then rinse and repeat.
4) Get a 7Kw home charger and then use it like a petrol station whenever I need it.

So to refine the question:

Does it matter how you charge the battery (for battery life/longevity/maximum capacity) at home in a low mileage situation or is there some fancy software dealing with it so I don't worry and all I have to think about is not rapid charging it too many times in a row?

I don't know how many miles the OP does, but I would have assumed getting a home charger was the right thing to do irrespective of miles to look after the battery, but then some posters are saying about "granny charging" and if that is acceptable am I over thinking it, the change is easier than I think and it might be for the Op as well if they are only doing low miles and just embracing what may be the future.

People do it but it’s not recommended to granny charge permanently, if you can get a home charger fitted it’ll be more efficient and safer (and obviously faster).

Ref battery charge, keeping it between 20% and 80% most of the time is generally considered best for longevity. I charge to 80% most nights unless I know I’ll need the extra the next day.

Edited by danp on Monday 24th February 18:28

[Moonpie21]

danp said:

People do it but it’s not recommended to granny charge permanently, if you can get a home charger fitted it’ll be more efficient and safer (and obviously faster).

Ref battery charge, keeping it between 20% and 80% most of the time is generally considered best for longevity. I charge to 80% most nights unless I know I’ll need the extra the next day.

Edited by danp on Monday 24th February 18:28

Safer?

I guess the big part for me is this is an experiment before I need to and I quite like the idea of an electric car as a daily. But it seems that the technology to charge is changing/advancing at the moment with many different sorts. The Taycan has a new system which means something and is supposedly better. But say I get a home charger for an i-Pace on a 2 year lease then buy in to the electric car premise and get something for myself will I have to change the charger?

In summary:

Granny charging OK if you are giving it back (lease) do what you like and what suits you over a 2 year period.

If you are going to buy an electric car, run it longer and want it to retain some usefulness/efficiency over time then get a home charger installed.

I think that leads me to experiment for a couple of years/year at a time (lease), try a few models see what I like and then commit to longer with the appropriate charger (buy).

Thank you, it has all helped.

[Throttle Body]

Rob-s5mok said:

However, the whole premise of ownership begins to fall apart when you try and arrange to have a 7kW charged installed at home. I live in an old farmhouse with nothing else around me, my wife and I are 'empty nesters' but we have the temerity to own a washing machine and tumble drier, a power shower and an electric Aga cooker. Apparently these modest electrical items mean that I have to have a new fuse fitted by the local power company (and can I get an answer to when this might happen? No) before they can install the charger, as the total existing load might exceed 79A and the standard fuse is 100A. So I'm faced with the prospect of taking delivery of a car that I can only charge through a 13A socket, which could take >24 hours.

I'm rapidly losing enthusiasm. Am I unusual or is this a taste of what everyone will experience? I'm sure the charger installers will bend over backwards to give good customer service but the power companies will be their usual useless selves: we've been waiting a year for them to trim back some tress which are touching their powerlines in our field!

Your problem isn't really with the electric car charger. Your problem is that your house electrics are old and not fit for the future, so they need upgrading. I know that it is a hassle to bring them into the 21st Century, but houses often need upgrading for new fangled things. Just think how much of a hassle it would have been to install running water, or a WC.

I'm afraid that all of our utility companies are utterly useless, electricity, gas and telecoms (but I take some solace in discovering that Deutsche Telekom in Germany is every bit as bad as BT). When I built my house, everything had a 12 week lead time, and cost an arm and a leg.

One further thing to consider. How good is your mobile phone coverage? Smart meters have to have access to a mobile phone signal to communicate with HQ. If you are in a dead zone, (like I was until a couple of years' ago) that might also limit installation.

I hope that you persevere. Good luck.

[LarryUSA]

Moonpie21 said:

Please forgive me for hijacking this thread with a sort of relevant question as I have been pondering when/how I will switch to an electric car. I regularly only do 12 miles a day and maybe 40 miles at the weekend, not a lot I know, and the odd long distance ish trip of maybe 100 miles once a month. But I want a nice car to do it in, so have been considering a lease on an i-Pace.

Now it's a lease so this shouldn't really matter to me but whats good for the battery?

The scenarios as I see them:

1) Get home every night plug it in to a 13amp wall socket and top it up over night.
2) Let it run down a little bit more and maybe plug it in to the 13amp wall socket every other night or where ever the sweet spot is of gaining 100% battery to start the day after a charge. Meaning should one of those longer trips come up no planning required just plug it in the night before.
3) Let it run all the way down and then just charge over night every night till it gets full and then rinse and repeat.
4) Get a 7Kw home charger and then use it like a petrol station whenever I need it.

So to refine the question:

Does it matter how you charge the battery (for battery life/longevity/maximum capacity) at home in a low mileage situation or is there some fancy software dealing with it so I don't worry and all I have to think about is not rapid charging it too many times in a row?

I don't know how many miles the OP does, but I would have assumed getting a home charger was the right thing to do irrespective of miles to look after the battery, but then some posters are saying about "granny charging" and if that is acceptable am I over thinking it, the change is easier than I think and it might be for the Op as well if they are only doing low miles and just embracing what may be the future.

We're on our 2nd EV now. First Fiat 500e, just plug in each night that it's been used, every morning at 100%. Same with the eGolf now. No noticeable detriment to the battery and no worry each morning if you have enough juice. Once you have an EV, it just comes naturally. Only over the weekend with short trips to the shops we don't bother charging. It really is simple and not something you worry about.

[anonymous-user]

Throttle Body said:

Rob-s5mok said:

However, the whole premise of ownership begins to fall apart when you try and arrange to have a 7kW charged installed at home. I live in an old farmhouse with nothing else around me, my wife and I are 'empty nesters' but we have the temerity to own a washing machine and tumble drier, a power shower and an electric Aga cooker. Apparently these modest electrical items mean that I have to have a new fuse fitted by the local power company (and can I get an answer to when this might happen? No) before they can install the charger, as the total existing load might exceed 79A and the standard fuse is 100A. So I'm faced with the prospect of taking delivery of a car that I can only charge through a 13A socket, which could take >24 hours.

I'm rapidly losing enthusiasm. Am I unusual or is this a taste of what everyone will experience? I'm sure the charger installers will bend over backwards to give good customer service but the power companies will be their usual useless selves: we've been waiting a year for them to trim back some tress which are touching their powerlines in our field!

Your problem isn't really with the electric car charger. Your problem is that your house electrics are old and not fit for the future, so they need upgrading. I know that it is a hassle to bring them into the 21st Century, but houses often need upgrading for new fangled things. Just think how much of a hassle it would have been to install running water, or a WC.

I'm afraid that all of our utility companies are utterly useless, electricity, gas and telecoms (but I take some solace in discovering that Deutsche Telekom in Germany is every bit as bad as BT). When I built my house, everything had a 12 week lead time, and cost an arm and a leg.

One further thing to consider. How good is your mobile phone coverage? Smart meters have to have access to a mobile phone signal to communicate with HQ. If you are in a dead zone, (like I was until a couple of years' ago) that might also limit installation.

I hope that you persevere. Good luck.

Not true about ‘old electrics’. Modern houses are being fitted with 80A, often 60A fuses, because modern insulation standards should limit the amount of power needed. Little allowance for the use of EVs is being considered yet.

‘Older’ properties often have up to 100A fuses which would almost always allow an EV charger to be fitted.

We have a 100A fuse but also an 8kw heat pump and the other stuff.

We have an e-Niro on order but if I can’t get a 7kw charger we’ll be reconsidering. (Likewise if the EV grant is stopped, that’ll end the idea).

[Frimley111R]

REALIST123 said:

We have an e-Niro on order but if I can’t get a 7kw charger we’ll be reconsidering. (Likewise if the EV grant is stopped, that’ll end the idea).

Given the cost of such a car are you really saying that not getting £500 off a charger would put you off buying an EV completely??

[kambites]

Frimley111R said:

REALIST123 said:

We have an e-Niro on order but if I can’t get a 7kw charger we’ll be reconsidering. (Likewise if the EV grant is stopped, that’ll end the idea).

Given the cost of such a car are you really saying that not getting £500 off a charger would put you off buying an EV completely??

I assume he means the £3500 grant on the car rather than the grant to install the charger.

[anonymous-user]

If you charge for 12 hours every night on a granny charger, that is 12 hours * 9 miles * 7 = 800 miles a week. Or 40k a year.

90% of people would be fine with a granny charger . If you are in the 10% please don't shout at me.

[SWoll]

Sambucket said:

If you charge for 12 hours every night on a granny charger, that is 12 hours * 9 miles * 7 = 800 miles a week. Or 40k a year.

90% of people would be fine with a granny charger . If you are in the 10% please don't shout at me.

Exactly. I can understand getting a dedicated charger from a convenience standpoint but it's hardly an absolute necessity for most.

[Butter Face]

kambites said:

Frimley111R said:

REALIST123 said:

We have an e-Niro on order but if I can’t get a 7kw charger we’ll be reconsidering. (Likewise if the EV grant is stopped, that’ll end the idea).

Given the cost of such a car are you really saying that not getting £500 off a charger would put you off buying an EV completely??

I assume he means the £3500 grant on the car rather than the grant to install the charger.

If he’s got the order done then the dealer should have already applied for his grant so he hasn’t really got to worry about that.

[mcm87]

Get someone like Pod-Point to fit a 3.6kw charger for the time being, but ask them to install the necessary cabling to support 7kw in the future.

You’ll then have 3.6kw charging, much better than the 3 pin lead and convenient with the dedicated charger. Once the fuse upgrade concludes they can enable the full 7kw over the air to the Pod-Point box.

[Amateurish]

SWoll said:

Exactly. I can understand getting a dedicated charger from a convenience standpoint but it's hardly an absolute necessity for most.

I would argue that from a practical standpoint, it is necessary to have a 7kw for an iPace. It means that whatever your state of charge, you can charge to full overnight. I do about 10k miles pa in my iPace, and I frequently need to do a big charge overnight.

Plus it means I can do the vast majority of my charging overnight on E7 rates, which probably saves approx £200 per year compared to charging throughout the day on a granny charger.

[Amateurish]

danp said:

People do it but it’s not recommended to granny charge permanently, if you can get a home charger fitted it’ll be more efficient and safer (and obviously faster).

Ref battery charge, keeping it between 20% and 80% most of the time is generally considered best for longevity. I charge to 80% most nights unless I know I’ll need the extra the next day.

Edited by danp on Monday 24th February 18:28

You don't need to do this with the iPace, and in fact there is no feature to allow you to charge only up to 80%.

[anonymous-user]

Amateurish said:

danp said:

People do it but it’s not recommended to granny charge permanently, if you can get a home charger fitted it’ll be more efficient and safer (and obviously faster).

I've heard this said in passing. Can anyone be more precise with efficiency numbers and risk?

[sjg]

Moonpie21 said:

I guess the big part for me is this is an experiment before I need to and I quite like the idea of an electric car as a daily. But it seems that the technology to charge is changing/advancing at the moment with many different sorts. The Taycan has a new system which means something and is supposedly better. But say I get a home charger for an i-Pace on a 2 year lease then buy in to the electric car premise and get something for myself will I have to change the charger?

The advances in charging are on the rapid charging side - putting lots of electricity in as quickly as possible while on a journey. It's not something you'd have at home.

Home charging is limited by supply to your house and spare capacity after your other electrical stuff, so the vast majority will be using 7kW single phase AC. It's good enough for putting 20-25 miles of range per hour into the car (depending on how efficiently your car uses it) so enough to fill most cars overnight easily. If you have 3 phase at home and a capable charger in the car then you can get a bit faster but not worth doing just for car charging.

Fit a 7kW charger now and it'll be fine for the future.

[Olas]

The solution here is to buy a car that can be charged from empty to fill in under 5 minutes at a petrol station.

Rewiring a house for the purpose of
Increasing electricity bills is a very expensive undertaking

[kambites]

Sambucket said:

I've heard this said in passing. Can anyone be more precise with efficiency numbers and risk?

I think the issue is more whether it's sensible to be constantly drawing 13amps from one domestic socket on the house's ring main than any risk of damaging the car. Obviously it depends how your house is set up, but if it has one ring servicing both garage and house, you can only draw 26amps total from that ring; if your car is constantly drawing half of that there's a far higher chance of exceeding the total current draw limit if you, for example, try to boil the kettle while the oven is running. Also some older sockets can get rather hot at a constant 13amp draw.

If your garage has its own ring off the consumer unit and your wiring is reasonably modern, I think long-term use of the granny cable is unlikely to be a problem.

[IanJ9375]

Amateurish said:

I have installed a home charger in the same scenario as you describe without having to upgrade the 100A fuse. Mine was done by Pod Point and it has load balancing which varies the power to avoid tripping the main fuse.

Same here - jumped in with Pod Point, specced the 7kW (32a) charger for future proofing as my 330e is only 3.7kW max charge anyhow.
If there's no spare slot on the board they will pop an RCD mini consumer unit of their own in there.