More ID.3 details

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RobDickinson

Original Poster:

31,343 posts

253 months

Tuesday 31st March 2020
quotequote all
Witchfinder said:
RobDickinson said:
VW has had secret high level meetings with Daimler and BMW to try and form a 3 way partnership to develop a common EV operating system.
Why aren't they just using Android Automotive OS?
I think Audi are but isnt it mostly infotaiment rather than management systems for charging/drive etc

cossey

148 posts

188 months

Tuesday 31st March 2020
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Having worked with VW on other projects when they started the id3 development this is not a big surprise.

When dieselgate first hit they were cutting engineering spending all over trying to plug to hole at the same time there was a massive job updating software on all the affected vehicles. This has critically hurt new developments.

They only just managed to get the mk8 golf out 6 months late and with features missing. The A3 is even later as they wouldn't release it without some of the new toys working.

Doing a completely new system from the ground up as well was always going to take more resources than they wanted to pay for at the time. Fixing bugs is inefficient compared to getting it right first time.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Tuesday 31st March 2020
quotequote all
Seems a bit odd. Motor control isn't remotely complex and there's plenty of embedded systems programmers out there with lots of experience of Li-Ion battery management. Fundamentally, the software to control an EV is vastly simpler than that required to control a modern internal combustion engine.

granada203028

1,482 posts

196 months

Tuesday 31st March 2020
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I guess with little margin on the basic EV power train they are trying to add lots of high margin s/w based "tech" to help justify a higher overall price.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Tuesday 31st March 2020
quotequote all
granada203028 said:
I guess with little margin on the basic EV power train they are trying to add lots of high margin s/w based "tech" to help justify a higher overall price.
Perhaps, but that's largely the same stuff they add to their non-EV products. It really shouldn't be new or difficult to them save perhaps for the fact they're trying to appeal to a slightly different customer-base than they did with their ICE cars. OK there's the potential for things like instant(ish) per-wheel torque vectoring which can't be done on an ICE car but on a mainstream family hatchback that's hardly vital.

As far as I can see, the EV bit of an EV simply isn't very complicated?


Edited by kambites on Tuesday 31st March 12:59

Witchfinder

6,250 posts

251 months

Tuesday 31st March 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
I think Audi are but isnt it mostly infotaiment rather than management systems for charging/drive etc
No, it's a full OS for all elements of the car, and can control anything connected to the car's main bus Check it out.
https://source.android.com/devices/automotive

modeller

443 posts

165 months

Tuesday 31st March 2020
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Witchfinder said:
No, it's a full OS for all elements of the car, and can control anything connected to the car's main bus Check it out.
https://source.android.com/devices/automotive
Nope, that's just a subset of what's in a modern vehicle, mainly for getting data to the infotainment system and connected car.

What VW (plus everyone else) is trying to do is copy what Tesla have already done - break the tight link between software and hardware (ECU) thus allow fewer more powerful computers (ECUs) to be used. It's cheaper to build (lighter, less heat, less wiring,..) and far more suitable for SOTA. Android OS doesn't solve this problem.

dxg

8,121 posts

259 months

Wednesday 1st April 2020
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modeller said:
Witchfinder said:
No, it's a full OS for all elements of the car, and can control anything connected to the car's main bus Check it out.
https://source.android.com/devices/automotive
Nope, that's just a subset of what's in a modern vehicle, mainly for getting data to the infotainment system and connected car.

What VW (plus everyone else) is trying to do is copy what Tesla have already done - break the tight link between software and hardware (ECU) thus allow fewer more powerful computers (ECUs) to be used. It's cheaper to build (lighter, less heat, less wiring,..) and far more suitable for SOTA. Android OS doesn't solve this problem.
In that case, they'd better start investing in hardware design as well, or get really chummy with Nvidia. The raw power in Tesla's proprietary compute units is staggering and only partially used, by all accounts...

RobDickinson

Original Poster:

31,343 posts

253 months

Wednesday 1st April 2020
quotequote all
ID3 has no self driving ability and wont, I assume it'll have a basic lane keeping thing?

This is more about controlling the basic EV components like battery management, charging etc

RobDickinson

Original Poster:

31,343 posts

253 months

Tuesday 19th May 2020
quotequote all
Norway has official ID3 prices now.

ID.3 1ST base: under kr. 355.000,-* (36,000 US$)
ID.3 1ST Plus: under kr. 405.000,-* (41,000 US$)
ID.3 1ST Max: under kr. 455.000,-* (46,000 US$)

For reference the Model 3 SR+ starts at 445.500 kr or so

aestetix1

868 posts

50 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
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RobDickinson said:
ID3 has no self driving ability and wont, I assume it'll have a basic lane keeping thing?

This is more about controlling the basic EV components like battery management, charging etc
It's got autopilot, some press details mention lane change capability.

Baldchap

7,507 posts

91 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
aestetix1 said:
RobDickinson said:
ID3 has no self driving ability and wont, I assume it'll have a basic lane keeping thing?

This is more about controlling the basic EV components like battery management, charging etc
It's got autopilot, some press details mention lane change capability.
Having owned a Golf R and a MXP100D side-by-side, I can confirm that VW's lane assist and adaptive cruise are significantly better than Tesla's versions on UK roads. It's fair to assume the same or better will go into the ID range.

RobDickinson

Original Poster:

31,343 posts

253 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
The bottom spec doesn't even have a reverse camera.

Witchfinder

6,250 posts

251 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
I think Audi are but isnt it mostly infotaiment rather than management systems for charging/drive etc
Turns out the Audi system is Linux based

https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-audi-mmi-multim...

JonChalk

6,469 posts

109 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
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RobDickinson said:
The bottom spec doesn't even have a reverse camera.
So? Neither does the highest available spec Mk8 Golf (it's an option throughout the range though).

It's an electric "basic" (if such a thing exists outside Dacia) family hatchback, not a "Tesla killer". Never was. Never will be. Not supposed to be.

RobDickinson

Original Poster:

31,343 posts

253 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
Witchfinder said:
RobDickinson said:
I think Audi are but isnt it mostly infotaiment rather than management systems for charging/drive etc
Turns out the Audi system is Linux based

https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-audi-mmi-multim...
Again that's the infotainment.

Witchfinder

6,250 posts

251 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
Again that's the infotainment.
No, they're rolling out their function-on-demand service this year that will als allow you to unlock, for example, matrix headlights on a subscription. That actually makes a lot of sense, because most people never use their headlights in the summer, so you could deactivate it for half the year.

theboss

6,878 posts

218 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
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Witchfinder said:
No, they're rolling out their function-on-demand service this year that will als allow you to unlock, for example, matrix headlights on a subscription. That actually makes a lot of sense, because most people never use their headlights in the summer, so you could deactivate it for half the year.
I’ll find out tomorrow when I take delivery of an e-tron... but I’d be amazed if Audi were daft enough to let you subscribe on anything less than a 1/2/3 year basis...

Witchfinder

6,250 posts

251 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
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theboss said:
I’ll find out tomorrow when I take delivery of an e-tron... but I’d be amazed if Audi were daft enough to let you subscribe on anything less than a 1/2/3 year basis...
It's not being launched until later this year. Everything I've read suggests you'll be able to subscribe for short terms, and possibly even have free trials.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
JonChalk said:
RobDickinson said:
The bottom spec doesn't even have a reverse camera.
So? Neither does the highest available spec Mk8 Golf (it's an option throughout the range though).

It's an electric "basic" (if such a thing exists outside Dacia) family hatchback, not a "Tesla killer". Never was. Never will be. Not supposed to be.
On one hand that's true, on the other the MG ZS EV comes with one (at least on the top trim level). Mind you the German car companies have always tended to have things as options that the far eastern companies offer as standard.

Not that I'd particularly want one myself anyway. Unless rear visibility is appalling, I find it easier to use a combination of mirrors and parking sensors.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st May 07:28