Charging EV's important info.
Discussion
Hi All,
Headline fact:
A 32amp charging point will require a 10.0mm T&E supply cable from a domestic (or any other) type of distribution board!
If you ask 99% of electricians to put in a 32amp supply they will simply choose a 6.0mm supply cable, but that is because they do what the IET tells them to; and just take a look at Grenfell Tower to see what this advice can achieve!
If you ask Geoff Cronshaw or anybody from the IET, their information will be 'legally disclaimed'!
What I am telling you is not.
In order to calculate cable sizes with regard to over-current protection the IET is currently using a 'fusing factor' when deciding on the size of 'circuit breakers'!
This gives the impression that the current capacity of the cable exceeds the i2 value of the circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm not joking.
A fusing factor (in this case 1.45) is used as a multiplier to the current carrying capacity of any given cable in order to be able to choose a larger current rating of 'fuse wire/carrier', in order to absorb the high starting currents associated with starting/accelerating large electric motors.
In order to absorb the high starting currents of electric motors using circuit breakers, the designer simply chooses a less sensitive 'C' or 'D' ('2' or '3') Type circuit breaker of the same current rating.
Therefore there is just no need to use a fusing factor when designing general purpose power circuits; unless the intention is simply to make the circuits 'run hot' in order to increase the cost of running the circuit and shorten the life expectancy of the cabling within the circuit. Which is what the IET in conjunction with the generating companies seem to want.
Therefore unless you want your house to end up looking like Grenfell Tower once your charger gets a bit older, use the right size supply cable.
The IET and their indoctrinated following don't like me very much and have spent a disproportionate amount of time bad-mouthing everything I have written and said on this issue; and were apparently "violently opposed" to discussing it at JPEL 64 meetings:
So I repeat; my advice is not 'legally disclaimed'!
Headline fact:
A 32amp charging point will require a 10.0mm T&E supply cable from a domestic (or any other) type of distribution board!
If you ask 99% of electricians to put in a 32amp supply they will simply choose a 6.0mm supply cable, but that is because they do what the IET tells them to; and just take a look at Grenfell Tower to see what this advice can achieve!
If you ask Geoff Cronshaw or anybody from the IET, their information will be 'legally disclaimed'!
What I am telling you is not.
In order to calculate cable sizes with regard to over-current protection the IET is currently using a 'fusing factor' when deciding on the size of 'circuit breakers'!
This gives the impression that the current capacity of the cable exceeds the i2 value of the circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm not joking.
A fusing factor (in this case 1.45) is used as a multiplier to the current carrying capacity of any given cable in order to be able to choose a larger current rating of 'fuse wire/carrier', in order to absorb the high starting currents associated with starting/accelerating large electric motors.
In order to absorb the high starting currents of electric motors using circuit breakers, the designer simply chooses a less sensitive 'C' or 'D' ('2' or '3') Type circuit breaker of the same current rating.
Therefore there is just no need to use a fusing factor when designing general purpose power circuits; unless the intention is simply to make the circuits 'run hot' in order to increase the cost of running the circuit and shorten the life expectancy of the cabling within the circuit. Which is what the IET in conjunction with the generating companies seem to want.
Therefore unless you want your house to end up looking like Grenfell Tower once your charger gets a bit older, use the right size supply cable.
The IET and their indoctrinated following don't like me very much and have spent a disproportionate amount of time bad-mouthing everything I have written and said on this issue; and were apparently "violently opposed" to discussing it at JPEL 64 meetings:
So I repeat; my advice is not 'legally disclaimed'!
Coby1 said:
Hi All,
Headline fact:
A 32amp charging point will require a 10.0mm T&E supply cable from a domestic (or any other) type of distribution board!
If you ask 99% of electricians to put in a 32amp supply they will simply choose a 6.0mm supply cable, but that is because they do what the IET tells them to; and just take a look at Grenfell Tower to see what this advice can achieve!
If you ask Geoff Cronshaw or anybody from the IET, their information will be 'legally disclaimed'!
What I am telling you is not.
In order to calculate cable sizes with regard to over-current protection the IET is currently using a 'fusing factor' when deciding on the size of 'circuit breakers'!
This gives the impression that the current capacity of the cable exceeds the i2 value of the circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm not joking.
A fusing factor (in this case 1.45) is used as a multiplier to the current carrying capacity of any given cable in order to be able to choose a larger current rating of 'fuse wire/carrier', in order to absorb the high starting currents associated with starting/accelerating large electric motors.
In order to absorb the high starting currents of electric motors using circuit breakers, the designer simply chooses a less sensitive 'C' or 'D' ('2' or '3') Type circuit breaker of the same current rating.
Therefore there is just no need to use a fusing factor when designing general purpose power circuits; unless the intention is simply to make the circuits 'run hot' in order to increase the cost of running the circuit and shorten the life expectancy of the cabling within the circuit. Which is what the IET in conjunction with the generating companies seem to want.
Therefore unless you want your house to end up looking like Grenfell Tower once your charger gets a bit older, use the right size supply cable.
The IET and their indoctrinated following don't like me very much and have spent a disproportionate amount of time bad-mouthing everything I have written and said on this issue; and were apparently "violently opposed" to discussing it at JPEL 64 meetings:
So I repeat; my advice is not 'legally disclaimed'!
Are you saying Grenfell was caused by an undersized cable and not a faulty connection, as the inquiry seemed to establish?Headline fact:
A 32amp charging point will require a 10.0mm T&E supply cable from a domestic (or any other) type of distribution board!
If you ask 99% of electricians to put in a 32amp supply they will simply choose a 6.0mm supply cable, but that is because they do what the IET tells them to; and just take a look at Grenfell Tower to see what this advice can achieve!
If you ask Geoff Cronshaw or anybody from the IET, their information will be 'legally disclaimed'!
What I am telling you is not.
In order to calculate cable sizes with regard to over-current protection the IET is currently using a 'fusing factor' when deciding on the size of 'circuit breakers'!
This gives the impression that the current capacity of the cable exceeds the i2 value of the circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm not joking.
A fusing factor (in this case 1.45) is used as a multiplier to the current carrying capacity of any given cable in order to be able to choose a larger current rating of 'fuse wire/carrier', in order to absorb the high starting currents associated with starting/accelerating large electric motors.
In order to absorb the high starting currents of electric motors using circuit breakers, the designer simply chooses a less sensitive 'C' or 'D' ('2' or '3') Type circuit breaker of the same current rating.
Therefore there is just no need to use a fusing factor when designing general purpose power circuits; unless the intention is simply to make the circuits 'run hot' in order to increase the cost of running the circuit and shorten the life expectancy of the cabling within the circuit. Which is what the IET in conjunction with the generating companies seem to want.
Therefore unless you want your house to end up looking like Grenfell Tower once your charger gets a bit older, use the right size supply cable.
The IET and their indoctrinated following don't like me very much and have spent a disproportionate amount of time bad-mouthing everything I have written and said on this issue; and were apparently "violently opposed" to discussing it at JPEL 64 meetings:
So I repeat; my advice is not 'legally disclaimed'!
How did you reach that conclusion?
Coby1 said:
Hi All,
Headline fact:
A 32amp charging point will require a 10.0mm T&E supply cable from a domestic (or any other) type of distribution board!
If you ask 99% of electricians to put in a 32amp supply they will simply choose a 6.0mm supply cable, but that is because they do what the IET tells them to; and just take a look at Grenfell Tower to see what this advice can achieve!
If you ask Geoff Cronshaw or anybody from the IET, their information will be 'legally disclaimed'!
What I am telling you is not.
In order to calculate cable sizes with regard to over-current protection the IET is currently using a 'fusing factor' when deciding on the size of 'circuit breakers'!
This gives the impression that the current capacity of the cable exceeds the i2 value of the circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm not joking.
A fusing factor (in this case 1.45) is used as a multiplier to the current carrying capacity of any given cable in order to be able to choose a larger current rating of 'fuse wire/carrier', in order to absorb the high starting currents associated with starting/accelerating large electric motors.
In order to absorb the high starting currents of electric motors using circuit breakers, the designer simply chooses a less sensitive 'C' or 'D' ('2' or '3') Type circuit breaker of the same current rating.
Therefore there is just no need to use a fusing factor when designing general purpose power circuits; unless the intention is simply to make the circuits 'run hot' in order to increase the cost of running the circuit and shorten the life expectancy of the cabling within the circuit. Which is what the IET in conjunction with the generating companies seem to want.
Therefore unless you want your house to end up looking like Grenfell Tower once your charger gets a bit older, use the right size supply cable.
The IET and their indoctrinated following don't like me very much and have spent a disproportionate amount of time bad-mouthing everything I have written and said on this issue; and were apparently "violently opposed" to discussing it at JPEL 64 meetings:
So I repeat; my advice is not 'legally disclaimed'!
Is everything OK at home?Headline fact:
A 32amp charging point will require a 10.0mm T&E supply cable from a domestic (or any other) type of distribution board!
If you ask 99% of electricians to put in a 32amp supply they will simply choose a 6.0mm supply cable, but that is because they do what the IET tells them to; and just take a look at Grenfell Tower to see what this advice can achieve!
If you ask Geoff Cronshaw or anybody from the IET, their information will be 'legally disclaimed'!
What I am telling you is not.
In order to calculate cable sizes with regard to over-current protection the IET is currently using a 'fusing factor' when deciding on the size of 'circuit breakers'!
This gives the impression that the current capacity of the cable exceeds the i2 value of the circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm not joking.
A fusing factor (in this case 1.45) is used as a multiplier to the current carrying capacity of any given cable in order to be able to choose a larger current rating of 'fuse wire/carrier', in order to absorb the high starting currents associated with starting/accelerating large electric motors.
In order to absorb the high starting currents of electric motors using circuit breakers, the designer simply chooses a less sensitive 'C' or 'D' ('2' or '3') Type circuit breaker of the same current rating.
Therefore there is just no need to use a fusing factor when designing general purpose power circuits; unless the intention is simply to make the circuits 'run hot' in order to increase the cost of running the circuit and shorten the life expectancy of the cabling within the circuit. Which is what the IET in conjunction with the generating companies seem to want.
Therefore unless you want your house to end up looking like Grenfell Tower once your charger gets a bit older, use the right size supply cable.
The IET and their indoctrinated following don't like me very much and have spent a disproportionate amount of time bad-mouthing everything I have written and said on this issue; and were apparently "violently opposed" to discussing it at JPEL 64 meetings:
So I repeat; my advice is not 'legally disclaimed'!
The Grenfell Inquiry has been 'got at' I'm afraid, the moment someone called for a public inquiry the door was opened to bribery and corruption!
They used the services of an 'American' electrical expert for their report into the cause of the fire a Dr. Duncan Glover, who didn't (and as he has now gone into hiding) still doesn't know that there is a 'fuse' inside a 13amp plug!
Can you believe that?
As the circuit breaker was a 32amp BS EN version, the i2 value of which is >46amps. All of the cabling in the ring circuit, the flex and inside the fridge freezer were vulnerable to ignition once the current flow slowly crept up passed 42amps.
It's just a case of which cable had the worst length to cross sectional area ratio, that would have decided which one caught fire first once the plug top fuse was wrapped in tin foil.
They used the services of an 'American' electrical expert for their report into the cause of the fire a Dr. Duncan Glover, who didn't (and as he has now gone into hiding) still doesn't know that there is a 'fuse' inside a 13amp plug!
Can you believe that?
As the circuit breaker was a 32amp BS EN version, the i2 value of which is >46amps. All of the cabling in the ring circuit, the flex and inside the fridge freezer were vulnerable to ignition once the current flow slowly crept up passed 42amps.
It's just a case of which cable had the worst length to cross sectional area ratio, that would have decided which one caught fire first once the plug top fuse was wrapped in tin foil.
Coby1 said:
The Grenfell Inquiry has been 'got at' I'm afraid, the moment someone called for a public inquiry the door was opened to bribery and corruption!
They used the services of an 'American' electrical expert for their report into the cause of the fire a Dr. Duncan Glover, who didn't (and as he has now gone into hiding) still doesn't know that there is a 'fuse' inside a 13amp plug!
Can you believe that?
As the circuit breaker was a 32amp BS EN version, the i2 value of which is >46amps. All of the cabling in the ring circuit, the flex and inside the fridge freezer were vulnerable to ignition once the current flow slowly crept up passed 42amps.
It's just a case of which cable had the worst length to cross sectional area ratio, that would have decided which one caught fire first once the plug top fuse was wrapped in tin foil.
Why would a FF pull 46A?They used the services of an 'American' electrical expert for their report into the cause of the fire a Dr. Duncan Glover, who didn't (and as he has now gone into hiding) still doesn't know that there is a 'fuse' inside a 13amp plug!
Can you believe that?
As the circuit breaker was a 32amp BS EN version, the i2 value of which is >46amps. All of the cabling in the ring circuit, the flex and inside the fridge freezer were vulnerable to ignition once the current flow slowly crept up passed 42amps.
It's just a case of which cable had the worst length to cross sectional area ratio, that would have decided which one caught fire first once the plug top fuse was wrapped in tin foil.
Yeah sure the fridge freezer was certainly faulty, but it should have therefore blown the 10/13 amp fuse in the plug top.
Therefore the plug top fuse must have been 'wrapped' in tin foil (or similar).
Therefore if a member of the public (usually adolescent kid) wraps a fuse in silver paper, who do you blame for the house burning down?
(i) - the adolescent child; or
(ii) - the electrician who designed the installation (seeing as he knows full well that this will happen)
In this case the IET!
The 32amp BS EN circuit breakers they are using are not sensitive enough for a 2.5mm T&E ring main, they should be using the 25amp version.
D. W. Cockburn
Author - An Illustrated Explanation of Automatic Disconnection of Supply
Therefore the plug top fuse must have been 'wrapped' in tin foil (or similar).
Therefore if a member of the public (usually adolescent kid) wraps a fuse in silver paper, who do you blame for the house burning down?
(i) - the adolescent child; or
(ii) - the electrician who designed the installation (seeing as he knows full well that this will happen)
In this case the IET!
The 32amp BS EN circuit breakers they are using are not sensitive enough for a 2.5mm T&E ring main, they should be using the 25amp version.
D. W. Cockburn
Author - An Illustrated Explanation of Automatic Disconnection of Supply
Coby1 said:
Therefore if a member of the public (usually adolescent kid) wraps a fuse in silver paper, who do you blame for the house burning down?
(i) - the adolescent child; or
(ii) - the electrician who designed the installation (seeing as he knows full well that this will happen)
Are you suggesting the sparky is at fault? Your arguments are not easy to follow. (i) - the adolescent child; or
(ii) - the electrician who designed the installation (seeing as he knows full well that this will happen)
If you are then every car manufacturer is responsioble for every speeding ticket, every brewer responsible for every alcoholic and personal responsibility is no longer required and the nanny state should rule.
That fire was a tragedy to those involved but if I understand your argument, you may as well remove fuses from plugs because they can be abused. If you're arguing its the idiot who shorted out a blowing fues because the fridge was playing up then I'd agree with you and we could go on a merry journey of society being responsible for failing the education of the person and not giving them enough money to be able to afford to repair the fridge freezer when it started to fail etc
Every Electrician knows that fuses get wrapped in silver foil, it is just a fact of life for all of us.
Therefore it is our job and our responsibility to prevent a wrapped fuse from setting fire to your house (to protect the third party). I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
OK, let's start by asking the question that usually sorts the men from the boys:
What current rating of fuse 'wire/cartridge' should be used inside a 30amp fuse carrier in order to effectively protect a 2.5mm T&E domestic 30amp ring main against over-current?
Anyone answering '30amp' go to the back of the class and answer a second question:
What current rating of fuse 'wire/cartridge' should be used inside a 30amp fuse carrier in order to effectively protect a 4.0mm T&E light industrial 30amp ring main against over-current?
Now you may answer '30amp'.
The answer to the first question is, in reality 20amp!
If further proof is needed, take a close look at the 'time current characteristics' of 20amp fuse wire/cartridges and compare them to their immediate replacement - a BS 30amp circuit breaker.
They are almost identical!
Now compare those time current characteristics to a BS EN 32amp circuit breaker;
can you see the problem?
Therefore it is our job and our responsibility to prevent a wrapped fuse from setting fire to your house (to protect the third party). I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
OK, let's start by asking the question that usually sorts the men from the boys:
What current rating of fuse 'wire/cartridge' should be used inside a 30amp fuse carrier in order to effectively protect a 2.5mm T&E domestic 30amp ring main against over-current?
Anyone answering '30amp' go to the back of the class and answer a second question:
What current rating of fuse 'wire/cartridge' should be used inside a 30amp fuse carrier in order to effectively protect a 4.0mm T&E light industrial 30amp ring main against over-current?
Now you may answer '30amp'.
The answer to the first question is, in reality 20amp!
If further proof is needed, take a close look at the 'time current characteristics' of 20amp fuse wire/cartridges and compare them to their immediate replacement - a BS 30amp circuit breaker.
They are almost identical!
Now compare those time current characteristics to a BS EN 32amp circuit breaker;
can you see the problem?
Character assassination and the invocation of chaos theory are the hallmarks of the cocaine user.
OK, it would appear that one can no longer compare the 'time current characteristics' of 20amp fuse wire/cartridges and a BS 30amp circuit breaker; as many years ago when I pointed out the problem to the IET it appears that their response was to remove the appropriate information from the regulations!
Therefore who do you blame now?
(i) the electrician or;
(ii) the IET
OK, it would appear that one can no longer compare the 'time current characteristics' of 20amp fuse wire/cartridges and a BS 30amp circuit breaker; as many years ago when I pointed out the problem to the IET it appears that their response was to remove the appropriate information from the regulations!
Therefore who do you blame now?
(i) the electrician or;
(ii) the IET
As a relatively new person on here you created plenty of bemusement on the EV gearbox thread displaying a heap of ignorance to the point you were called a troll, just about every thread you've started was in the wrong place and had to be moved, nobody understands what you're talking about... its not exactly a value adding start or a demonstration of your congnitive ability
...but we are expected to accept what you say over fuses and that all the regulations are wrong, plus Grenfell is one massive cover up etc ?
You may have a point, you may even be right, but it all comes across much more like you've run out of tin foil with which to make a hat.
...but we are expected to accept what you say over fuses and that all the regulations are wrong, plus Grenfell is one massive cover up etc ?
You may have a point, you may even be right, but it all comes across much more like you've run out of tin foil with which to make a hat.
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