Discussion
Hi I am considering buying one but having trouble finding any useful info about MPG.
So use case is will be living 75m from family and friends. Mostly A roads. Will be travelling once a week or so but otherwise mostly around town.
Tried the BMW i3 - didn't like how sensitive the steering was at 60-70 on dual carriageways and motorways. It was dangerous.
Tried a CHR Hybrid. Liked it. Easy to get 55+MPG and no charging.
Tried the RAV4 Hybrid - quick, but struggling to get 40mpg as bigger car and bigger engine.
Tried PHEV Mitsu Outlander. Claims to run Electric for 28m but not sure whether its assistive when running 75m on A roads (worse MPG I guess on motorway). Like the idea of E running around town.
Also considering BMW 225xe. No idea how much mpg I'd see from this but claimed 20m around town on a charge.
Are any of these worth considering based on my use case? I'd love a Tesla but wouldn't we all.
Have 15-18k to spend max. So will be up to 3 years old.
thank you in advance.
So use case is will be living 75m from family and friends. Mostly A roads. Will be travelling once a week or so but otherwise mostly around town.
Tried the BMW i3 - didn't like how sensitive the steering was at 60-70 on dual carriageways and motorways. It was dangerous.
Tried a CHR Hybrid. Liked it. Easy to get 55+MPG and no charging.
Tried the RAV4 Hybrid - quick, but struggling to get 40mpg as bigger car and bigger engine.
Tried PHEV Mitsu Outlander. Claims to run Electric for 28m but not sure whether its assistive when running 75m on A roads (worse MPG I guess on motorway). Like the idea of E running around town.
Also considering BMW 225xe. No idea how much mpg I'd see from this but claimed 20m around town on a charge.
Are any of these worth considering based on my use case? I'd love a Tesla but wouldn't we all.
Have 15-18k to spend max. So will be up to 3 years old.
thank you in advance.
Edited by bonerp on Tuesday 20th October 13:33
What sort of car do you need, or does it not matter? The i3 is a 4 seat city car, the CHR is a crossover, the Rav4 is an SUV, the Outlander is a large SUV. Also, do you have the ability to get a charger installed at home if you go EV/PHEV?
I drive a 40kWh Zoe, which you could buy (battery included) within your budget, and which will do 180 miles in the summer and 125 in freezing rain at 65mph. My in-laws are a 150 mile round trip away - most of the time it's fine, I generally have to recharge a little around Christmas time. Either I run a heavy duty extension lead out of a window for a couple of hours, or go to the nearest rapid charger and have a coffee for an hour while the car tops up (could be half an hour if you have a Q model). If you want to make trips when you get to the other end of your 75 miles, you will need to recharge at some point.
You might be able to get a 40kWh Leaf for the money, which will be similar to my Zoe, but with a slightly lower range, or a Hyundai Ioniq, which is more efficient but has a smaller battery, so I'm not 100% sure of the usable range.
I drive a 40kWh Zoe, which you could buy (battery included) within your budget, and which will do 180 miles in the summer and 125 in freezing rain at 65mph. My in-laws are a 150 mile round trip away - most of the time it's fine, I generally have to recharge a little around Christmas time. Either I run a heavy duty extension lead out of a window for a couple of hours, or go to the nearest rapid charger and have a coffee for an hour while the car tops up (could be half an hour if you have a Q model). If you want to make trips when you get to the other end of your 75 miles, you will need to recharge at some point.
You might be able to get a 40kWh Leaf for the money, which will be similar to my Zoe, but with a slightly lower range, or a Hyundai Ioniq, which is more efficient but has a smaller battery, so I'm not 100% sure of the usable range.
Doesn't really matter but not a Zoe or Leaf. The name alone kills it for me 
. I like the SUV style as it suits my hobbies and have a medium sized dog. I'm struggling to understand the complexities of how a PHEV works alongside the petrol motor. I get the Hybrid as it seems to be a supportive elec motor. But PHEV - does that do the same until depleted? If so I'd expect better MPG than owners are seeing.
Maybe I'm too soon to this - feels like its not mature enough yet. Feels like dealers are not always up front.
Also looked at hiring a PHEV for a weekend and actually do the trip - can I find one anywhere? Not in the UK!!!
. I like the SUV style as it suits my hobbies and have a medium sized dog. I'm struggling to understand the complexities of how a PHEV works alongside the petrol motor. I get the Hybrid as it seems to be a supportive elec motor. But PHEV - does that do the same until depleted? If so I'd expect better MPG than owners are seeing.Maybe I'm too soon to this - feels like its not mature enough yet. Feels like dealers are not always up front.
Also looked at hiring a PHEV for a weekend and actually do the trip - can I find one anywhere? Not in the UK!!!
Edited by bonerp on Tuesday 20th October 15:54
Most PHEVs don't do much better than a similar shape/engine petrol car on a long motorway run. While you can usually save some battery for later in the trip, ultimately you get about 15-20 "free" miles on battery then the rest at normal petrol rate. They do a bit better if you have varying speed or traffic (like the M25) and it can shut the engine off some of the time.
The Toyota hybrids do a bit better as they have a more efficient Atkinson cycle engine, and use the hybrid system to boost it when you need more power (else they'd feel really flat), so fare better on a long motorway run. Plus they're mostly quite efficient (aero, tyres, etc) which helps too.
Newer Outlander uses an Atkinson cycle engine but I don't think gets close to the Toyota hybrids for efficiency on long runs.
Ultimately PHEVs are a good fit if you like how they drive for the local stuff on electric (and you can do those miles for very little cost) and can live with the fuel cost on the long trips. If the long trips are the majority of your miles though then diesel may do better or it's within the range of a lot of pure electric cars now.
The Toyota hybrids do a bit better as they have a more efficient Atkinson cycle engine, and use the hybrid system to boost it when you need more power (else they'd feel really flat), so fare better on a long motorway run. Plus they're mostly quite efficient (aero, tyres, etc) which helps too.
Newer Outlander uses an Atkinson cycle engine but I don't think gets close to the Toyota hybrids for efficiency on long runs.
Ultimately PHEVs are a good fit if you like how they drive for the local stuff on electric (and you can do those miles for very little cost) and can live with the fuel cost on the long trips. If the long trips are the majority of your miles though then diesel may do better or it's within the range of a lot of pure electric cars now.
btw, we had a Golf GTE which was great mostly as a short-range EV for local use. PHEVs vary in how well they work on electric so it's worth researching - while ours could use all the electric performance without the petrol engine starting, could heat the cabin on electric, could pre-heat, etc not all PHEVs do the same.
On the motorway, past the "free" EV miles it would do low 40s mpg, similar to what I'd expect from a regular Golf with the same 1.4 TSI engine.
On the motorway, past the "free" EV miles it would do low 40s mpg, similar to what I'd expect from a regular Golf with the same 1.4 TSI engine.
I have an Ioniq PHEV. I will attempt to describe in boring technical detail how it works - I think it's fairly typical.
It's set up like a hybrid with a DCT gearbox with the electric motor built into that. There's a clutch to disconnect the engine so it can move on electric alone.
Unlike a hybrid, it will travel a significant distance on electric only (37 miles in this case). Performance is sedate in EV mode but adequate for urban work. A hybrid (self charging whatever blah blah!) will use it's engine for EVERY journey, whereas a PHEV will do commutes, urban journeys, and shopping trips etc all on battery. You have an engine for longer journeys (that's why I chose it). My 25 mile daily commute round trip costs 75p!
When using the engine it still functions like a hybrid, so will achieve slightly better economy than a non hybrid version of the same car as it will try to shut down the engine at every opportunity. Mine does 60mpg on a long journey when using no electric range at all. Chuck in a bit of thoughtful electric use (slower stuff/roadworks/hold ups etc) then that will go over 70mpg easily - although that has used electric that has a cost, albeit less than petrol.
I believe the Ioniq has an Atkinson cycle engine like the Prius.
If you want an SUV then I think the Kia Nero has the same engine/motor/battery as the Ioniq.
It's set up like a hybrid with a DCT gearbox with the electric motor built into that. There's a clutch to disconnect the engine so it can move on electric alone.
Unlike a hybrid, it will travel a significant distance on electric only (37 miles in this case). Performance is sedate in EV mode but adequate for urban work. A hybrid (self charging whatever blah blah!) will use it's engine for EVERY journey, whereas a PHEV will do commutes, urban journeys, and shopping trips etc all on battery. You have an engine for longer journeys (that's why I chose it). My 25 mile daily commute round trip costs 75p!
When using the engine it still functions like a hybrid, so will achieve slightly better economy than a non hybrid version of the same car as it will try to shut down the engine at every opportunity. Mine does 60mpg on a long journey when using no electric range at all. Chuck in a bit of thoughtful electric use (slower stuff/roadworks/hold ups etc) then that will go over 70mpg easily - although that has used electric that has a cost, albeit less than petrol.
I believe the Ioniq has an Atkinson cycle engine like the Prius.
If you want an SUV then I think the Kia Nero has the same engine/motor/battery as the Ioniq.
Have a look at https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/
you can get real life data on how MPG looks for each model.
I run a Mercedes C300de, 2litre Diesel PHEV, can achieve 31miles on full electric on the absolute flat but normally its mid 20's on full electric.
In real terms I tend to use the Diesel cruising on motorway and get around 65-75mpg , and use electric for to/from work and start/end of journeys.
Feel free to have a nosey at mine current (2mths) & last car (3 1/2 years) stats.
C300de https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/1173481.html
C350e https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/799578.html
you can get real life data on how MPG looks for each model.
I run a Mercedes C300de, 2litre Diesel PHEV, can achieve 31miles on full electric on the absolute flat but normally its mid 20's on full electric.
In real terms I tend to use the Diesel cruising on motorway and get around 65-75mpg , and use electric for to/from work and start/end of journeys.
Feel free to have a nosey at mine current (2mths) & last car (3 1/2 years) stats.
C300de https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/1173481.html
C350e https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/799578.html
We have used our 225 XE for around 18 months and 12,000 miles. The range is between 17- 22 miles. It however does very much depend on how and where you drive it. Harsh acceleration, steep hills and 65 mph plus are not good for the range.
It you can charge it up for most journeys ( 2/3rd of our total miles are electric) as we can, then it is a good option. You can change the drive modes around. For example on a hilly bit of my daily route, I put it in engine mode resulting in either maintaining the charge or increasing it sightly. Other modes allow more freewheeling or for some regeneration. On a 40 mile trip over undulating A road at 40-50 mph and with some built up area traffic, I get 115-135 mpg.
A 75 mile trip x2 with recharging should produce a decent mpg figure. Overall a good car..
It you can charge it up for most journeys ( 2/3rd of our total miles are electric) as we can, then it is a good option. You can change the drive modes around. For example on a hilly bit of my daily route, I put it in engine mode resulting in either maintaining the charge or increasing it sightly. Other modes allow more freewheeling or for some regeneration. On a 40 mile trip over undulating A road at 40-50 mph and with some built up area traffic, I get 115-135 mpg.
A 75 mile trip x2 with recharging should produce a decent mpg figure. Overall a good car..
Just to add that I do 27 miles each way to work at back. I charge at 5p off-peak at home and free at work. It’s basically all motorway so I get 18-20 miles in my 4 year old GTE Golf.
Some weeks I’m over 100mpg average but most days of 100miles I’m between 55-75mpg. You could be all electric during the week and the your longer trip would still be over 55-60mpg if you start with a full battery and can top up when you’re visiting.
A long single day with a full battery at the start and no other charging. (Fast roads hence average speed)
Typical commute:
Some weeks I’m over 100mpg average but most days of 100miles I’m between 55-75mpg. You could be all electric during the week and the your longer trip would still be over 55-60mpg if you start with a full battery and can top up when you’re visiting.
A long single day with a full battery at the start and no other charging. (Fast roads hence average speed)
Typical commute:
dmsims said:
sjg said:
On the motorway, past the "free" EV miles it would do low 40s mpg, similar to what I'd expect from a regular Golf with the same 1.4 TSI engine.
You must have had a bad one - mine will do mid fifties on a long trip (300+ miles) at around the speed limitUnless you were constantly speeding on the MWay, I can't figure out how you got it down to 40s, I would also get mid 50s all day long with a totally flat battery.
Setting of fully charged in Hybrid mode, I could do Sheffield to Reading (160 miles?) doing 75mpg
But more usually I'd drive locally exclusively as an EV.
A very (IMO) impressive car which does nothing badly, and most things at least VERY well.
Possibly a bit bland.....
Edited to add:- recently got rid in order to go full EV, and the residuals are remarkable. Lost very little over 2 years, and never missed a beat, no faults of any description.
Edited by FeelingLucky on Wednesday 21st October 03:11
Drove the new Jazz a few weeks ago,
A very pleasant place to be on the inside,
Drove lovely around town and was OK but no fireball on the motorway,
Averaged 70MPG
Slightly over budget but you could put the rest on credit??
I know ... I'm recommending a HONDA JAZZ .... I'll hand my PH card in by the door
A very pleasant place to be on the inside,
Drove lovely around town and was OK but no fireball on the motorway,
Averaged 70MPG
Slightly over budget but you could put the rest on credit??
I know ... I'm recommending a HONDA JAZZ .... I'll hand my PH card in by the door
Unclegerry said:
We have used our 225 XE for around 18 months and 12,000 miles. The range is between 17- 22 miles. It however does very much depend on how and where you drive it. Harsh acceleration, steep hills and 65 mph plus are not good for the range.
It you can charge it up for most journeys ( 2/3rd of our total miles are electric) as we can, then it is a good option. You can change the drive modes around. For example on a hilly bit of my daily route, I put it in engine mode resulting in either maintaining the charge or increasing it sightly. Other modes allow more freewheeling or for some regeneration. On a 40 mile trip over undulating A road at 40-50 mph and with some built up area traffic, I get 115-135 mpg.
A 75 mile trip x2 with recharging should produce a decent mpg figure. Overall a good car..
Hi I ended up with a 19 reg 225xe picked it up today and very happy with it too! It you can charge it up for most journeys ( 2/3rd of our total miles are electric) as we can, then it is a good option. You can change the drive modes around. For example on a hilly bit of my daily route, I put it in engine mode resulting in either maintaining the charge or increasing it sightly. Other modes allow more freewheeling or for some regeneration. On a 40 mile trip over undulating A road at 40-50 mph and with some built up area traffic, I get 115-135 mpg.
A 75 mile trip x2 with recharging should produce a decent mpg figure. Overall a good car..
2 questions.... Can I install a normal outdoor 13a waterproof socket to charge using the included cable set or do I need something a bit more heavy duty? The fact its using a 3 pin domestic plug means it should be OK with a 13a socket right??
Also the standard cable to 3 pin plug isnt long enough by far so I think I'll need to buy a 10m extension. I think I'm right in saying it needs to be a type 2 to type 2? Like this one...? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MZBLJ3Z/ref=cm_sw_r... can this one also be used for charging whilst on the road at charging points or are the connection cables already provided at these?
Please help.
Temporary measure needed until I move and get a decent charger installed!
Thanks!
Edited by bonerp on Sunday 25th October 19:42
^^^ I put an outside double socket on to charge my XE. I used a BG outside plug with built in RCD from Screwfix and 6mm cable back to the consumer unit. I can set the charge rate to max which is ‘only’ 2.5kw and it’s been fine.
The only time I’ve had a problem is charging off an extension reel at mum and dads, the reel’s cut out kicks in on maximum but it’s ok on low.
Can’t comment on a proper extension as I don’t have one sorry.
The only time I’ve had a problem is charging off an extension reel at mum and dads, the reel’s cut out kicks in on maximum but it’s ok on low.
Can’t comment on a proper extension as I don’t have one sorry.
There's no reason why you can't install a good 13A socket outside, though it might be worth up-speccing to a 16A one for additional piece of mind. Make sure you run big enough cables to it (and that all the connections are good), as even 3kW for a sustained time period can cause heat issues if you don't.
I would recommend against using any sort of regular extension lead, even for irregular charging - they will get hot and the plugs can melt! You can get heavy duty extension leads that are far more suited for this specific purpose - if you want an extension lead until your dedicated socket is sorted I would recommend one of them - they can be handy if you are visiting relatives etc too.
I think this is the one I have for use with my Zoe: https://www.industrialextensionleads.co.uk/15m-sin...
I would recommend against using any sort of regular extension lead, even for irregular charging - they will get hot and the plugs can melt! You can get heavy duty extension leads that are far more suited for this specific purpose - if you want an extension lead until your dedicated socket is sorted I would recommend one of them - they can be handy if you are visiting relatives etc too.
I think this is the one I have for use with my Zoe: https://www.industrialextensionleads.co.uk/15m-sin...
bonerp said:
Also the standard cable to 3 pin plug isnt long enough by far so I think I'll need to buy a 10m extension. I think I'm right in saying it needs to be a type 2 to type 2? Like this one...? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MZBLJ3Z/ref=cm_sw_r... can this one also be used for charging whilst on the road at charging points or are the connection cables already provided at these?
Please help.
You can't use a standard type 2 to type 2 cable as an extension, so the one you linked to would not work like that.Please help.
But you can buy specially constructed extension cables. I purchased one from here:
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/for-type-2-cars/t...
But it may be cheaper, if only for short term use, to purchase a good quality 3pin extension lead as DuncanM23 recommended.
Hope this helps.
Glad I wasn't the only one confused by using a Type 2 as an extension
Anyway these are also good:
https://www.toughleads.co.uk/collections/ev-electr...
Anyway these are also good:
https://www.toughleads.co.uk/collections/ev-electr...
dmsims said:
Glad I wasn't the only one confused by using a Type 2 as an extension
Anyway these are also good:
https://www.toughleads.co.uk/collections/ev-electr...
I have ordered 2 of these thanks! Anyway these are also good:
https://www.toughleads.co.uk/collections/ev-electr...
Next question and some people on Facebook forum eV southwest are saying not to bother using chargers at say waitrose cos by the time it's charged 3 hrs of your life have been wasted. However I went to waitrose and there were 2 solitary chargers but no cables! So what cable would I need for this type of charger if I were to waste my life? Mines a type 2 end.
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