New Hyundai Ioniq 5

[anonymous-user]

JonnyVTEC said:

they have similar strung the cells in series more than parallel to bump voltage. Im not sure it is super close to Rimac to call it a 'technology. Maybe its some of the 800 power electronics.

My point was to share the real world effect, not endorse the googling you had done.

I didn't Google. I pointed out what an earlier poster had pointed out.

Why does this pace have to descend into point scoring crap, every, single, time?

[JonnyVTEC]

Just don't quote me as though i needed correcting! Apologies you didnt google.

Simple logic.

The curve comparisons on FastNed is really cool! Rumour is Taycan and model 3 charge at the same speed

Edited by JonnyVTEC on Wednesday 24th February 14:41

Edited by JonnyVTEC on Wednesday 24th February 14:45

[anonymous-user]

So if the Hyundai does share some of the same charging tech as the Taycan, it'll be similarly good? The Ioniq uses a different approach to the Kona represented on your graph.

[JonnyVTEC]

I think it will, looking at 220kW peak and of course the real opportunity starts with the bidirectional charging for vehicle 2 grid / Vehicle to load. Much less heat to deal with the current reduction in the system.

Of course its smaller pack so the cells will limit that in terms of the charge C rates. Looks like 3C charging anyway.

Taycan 93 kWh = 270kW
Ioniq5 72kW = 220kW

[anonymous-user]

So, in simple terms, the charging tech for the Ioniq will likely deliver charge at a pace which, when combined with it's subsequent 'consumption' in use, should mean it's very competitive.

[granada203028]

800V (note capital V for Volta the great Italian engineer) is only a bit helpful over 400V to reduce currents and hence cabling sizes.

Regular "fast" charging will still shorten the life of the battery and is hype to keep politicians happy over making the transition to EVs seem more possible.

EVs still remain about performance, convenience and luxury and not saving the planet, the spiral of growth and consumption continues...

[Smiljan]

Wouldn’t 800v system allow faster charging at a lower amperage thus less heat so maintained for longer at higher speeds?

Ie 50kw in 800v system only 62 amps vs 125 amps for the 400v system and so on.

[kambites]

Smiljan said:

Wouldn’t 800v system allow faster charging at a lower amperage thus less heat so maintained for longer at higher speeds?

Ie 50kw in 800v system only 62 amps vs 125 amps for the 400v system and so on.

If the 800V bit (ie the cable) is the limit yes, but the battery cells themselves are still running at the same voltage and hence the same current regardless of the transfer voltage. Trying to spoon 200kw or whatever into a 58kw battery pack is putting a LOT of load on each cell which is both difficult in terms of heat management and in terms of protecting the batteries from premature loss of capacity.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 24th February 21:01

[Smiljan]

Thanks

I know they have issues in the US in the summer with super chargers throttling down as the cables get too hot. CCS has cable coiling in the high power rapids. Would the 800v system help with that or is it just power=heat regardless of the voltage / current combo?

[Evanivitch]

Smiljan said:

Thanks

I know they have issues in the US in the summer with super chargers throttling down as the cables get too hot. CCS has cable coiling in the high power rapids. Would the 800v system help with that or is it just power=heat regardless of the voltage / current combo?

Heat losses are a function of current and conductor cross section.

It's not just the cable which benefits from 800V, but a lot of the internal power distribution system to the modules.

[Smiljan]

Just read a decent article on the Taycan that explains it all very well. Didn’t know the CCS standard maxes out at 1000v for example.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/why-did-porsche-go...

[heisthegaffer]

That looks brilliant. More like a concept car than a road car.

I'm hugely impressed

[ALawson]

5yr unlimited mileage is pretty impressive.

[gangzoom]

JonnyVTEC said:

I think it will, looking at 220kW peak and of course the real opportunity starts with the bidirectional charging for vehicle 2 grid / Vehicle to load. Much less heat to deal with the current reduction in the system.

Of course its smaller pack so the cells will limit that in terms of the charge C rates. Looks like 3C charging anyway.

Taycan 93 kWh = 270kW
Ioniq5 72kW = 220kW

Why are people obsessed with high speed charging when thermal run away still isn't solved for EVs??

Tesla have covered it up, but other manufacturers are issuing recalls. But what is the guarantee newer packs are any better if charged to 100%?

I don't charge our EV to 100% when parked in the garage anymore.


https://www.ft.com/content/b742f5ec-44e2-4f3d-9a63...


https://electrek.co/2021/02/18/bolt-ev-recall-chev...

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 24th February 22:45

[ZesPak]

gangzoom said:

Tesla have covered it up, but other manufacturers are issuing recalls. But what is the guarantee newer packs are any better if charged to 100%?

I don't charge our EV to 100% when parked in the garage anymore.

https://electrek.co/2021/02/18/bolt-ev-recall-chev...

article said:

Fires with the Bolt and Kona, even the ones covered by the recall, are still very rare, and no more often than their gasoline counterparts. But that’s not the public perception right now – and that’s the game that matters.

?

[gangzoom]

ZesPak said:

?

You need to ignite petrol which means some one is awake/alert in the car, an EV pack with thermal runaway will burn your house down whilst you sleep and its charging.

[JonnyVTEC]

gangzoom said:

Why are people obsessed with high speed charging when thermal run away still isn't solved for EVs??

Tesla have covered it up, but other manufacturers are issuing recalls. But what is the guarantee newer packs are any better if charged to 100%?

I don't charge our EV to 100% when parked in the garage anymore.


https://www.ft.com/content/b742f5ec-44e2-4f3d-9a63...


https://electrek.co/2021/02/18/bolt-ev-recall-chev...

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 24th February 22:45

I don’t understand your point?

Tesla hasn’t got sustained charging covered and they seem to like throttle charge speeds over the air.

Most EV have a natural buffer unlike the Tesla experience, they actually ask the China LFP cars to be charged to 100%... no idea why. I assume data gathering with their beta customers.

Home charging rates are not a concern for runaway even if it was an issue.

[gangzoom]

JonnyVTEC said:

Home charging rates are not a concern for runaway even if it was an issue.

Hence Hyundai and GM have done mass recalls of what is the equivalent of engine transplants in their cars? Why would they do this for no reason?

Tesla should be doing the same but are been cheap.

Hyundai, GM, and Tesla all essentially have a fire issue with their cars, hopefully its just a coincidence and not a sign EVs will end up like diesels. Pushed by governments initially than end up been dead ducks.

[Evanivitch]

gangzoom said:

You need to ignite petrol which means some one is awake/alert in the car, an EV pack with thermal runaway will burn your house down whilst you sleep and its charging.

So an electric car could catch fire whilst no one is in it, but an ICE (from BMW, Vauxhall or VW who have all had large recalls) could catch fire full of passengers, including children, and that's safer?

I think it's very odd to consider one safer than the other...

[gangzoom]

^So you are comfortable with the idea leaving your EV charging in the garage overnight knowing there is a risk (however small) it could catch on fire and burn the house down?

What happens if your kids bedroom is next to the garage (like our house).

The risks are small, I also have a Powerwall in the house, but to pretend these EV fires are nothing is been ignorant.

The reason Hyundai and GM is spending all that money on recalls is because they can see the damaging headlines if all the pieces fell in wrong place at the wrong time.

Tesla don't really care about their customers so hence are quite happy with burying the news.

Hopefully these are battery pack production issues rather than a generic risk that exists for all high capacity lithium ion cells.