Best electric premium hatchback on the horizon?

[TheDeuce]

Olibol said:

This is where we are at. Trying to convince ourselves that an SUV is a hot hatch because the hot hatch doesn’t exist. I decided to look down size-wise rather than up and went with the mini - which as far as I can see is the only ev approximating a small sporty car. Thankfully we don’t have to worry about range as have a bigger ev too.

I'm happy to accept the mini is the closest to a hatchback sized hatchback. It achieves that at the expense of not being 'hot' though.

Closest to a hot hatch probably is one of the many EV's that have a hatch and are extremely potent and great all rounders - and many are more or less in the shape of a traditional hatchback too. Just something of a larger overall scale and weight.

I think that's the was things will stay until we eventually, hopefully get higher density cells working. That's what would be required for a golf Gti or MX5 type fun car at ICE equivalent weight, superior power and useful range to be possible.

Although if BMW manage to deliver the i2 with 400+ hp and 250+ miles range then that will potentially be a bit of a game changer in the small EV segment.

[SWoll]

TheDeuce said:

Olibol said:

This is where we are at. Trying to convince ourselves that an SUV is a hot hatch because the hot hatch doesn’t exist. I decided to look down size-wise rather than up and went with the mini - which as far as I can see is the only ev approximating a small sporty car. Thankfully we don’t have to worry about range as have a bigger ev too.

I'm happy to accept the mini is the closest to a hatchback sized hatchback. It achieves that at the expense of not being 'hot' though.

Closest to a hot hatch probably is one of the many EV's that have a hatch and are extremely potent and great all rounders - and many are more or less in the shape of a traditional hatchback too. Just something of a larger overall scale and weight.

I think that's the was things will stay until we eventually, hopefully get higher density cells working. That's what would be required for a golf Gti or MX5 type fun car at ICE equivalent weight, superior power and useful range to be possible.

Although if BMW manage to deliver the i2 with 400+ hp and 250+ miles range then that will potentially be a bit of a game changer in the small EV segment.

A car with that spec won't be small, will weigh best part of 2000KG and cost £50k+

The ICE M240i weighs almost 1700KG, has 370hp and costs £48k before options.

[DMZ]

Olibol said:

This is where we are at. Trying to convince ourselves that an SUV is a hot hatch because the hot hatch doesn’t exist. I decided to look down size-wise rather than up and went with the mini - which as far as I can see is the only ev approximating a small sporty car. Thankfully we don’t have to worry about range as have a bigger ev too.

Tbf I've always looked at the Macan as Porsche's global market hot hatch.

Hot hatches are also an ICE construct. Take a basic car and beef everything up within a similar space and weight. That's not really how EV's seem to roll due to various constraints. Firstly nothing is basic and then more power means more battery and more motors and that all takes up a lot of space and adds weight. From what I can tell, manufacturers are either creating small cars that can only do what they do now or they have bigger vehicles that are detuned with just one motor and a smaller battery pack but large enough to scale to a larger battery and multiple motors with big power numbers. The Tesla Model 3 might be an exception seeing as it's quite small and very powerful in some trims.

[Olibol]

TheDeuce said:

I'm happy to accept the mini is the closest to a hatchback sized hatchback. It achieves that at the expense of not being 'hot' though.

I don’t agree. My daily driver is a Tesla 3 LR which is quick by any standard and handles in a similar way to a 3 Series, but doesn’t have the chuckable, smile on the face feel of a hot hatch. The mini is a lot slower in a straight line (and probably point to point) but is my choice of the two for fun - in the same way as any old school hot hatch would have been over a sports saloon. It’s half a tonne lighter apart from anything else.

[Scrump]

Maybe a GV60?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[SWoll]

Scrump said:

Maybe a GV60?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

£77k?

[jamesbilluk]

I always thought it was a shame that Honda didn't make a hotter 'e' Type R

An old article https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/honda-e-...

[ajap1979]

jamesbilluk said:

I always thought it was a shame that Honda didn't make a hotter 'e' Type R

An old article https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/honda-e-...

I’d love that. Unfortunately I can’t get my head around the regular e costing £36k.

[TheDeuce]

Olibol said:

TheDeuce said:

I'm happy to accept the mini is the closest to a hatchback sized hatchback. It achieves that at the expense of not being 'hot' though.

I don’t agree. My daily driver is a Tesla 3 LR which is quick by any standard and handles in a similar way to a 3 Series, but doesn’t have the chuckable, smile on the face feel of a hot hatch. The mini is a lot slower in a straight line (and probably point to point) but is my choice of the two for fun - in the same way as any old school hot hatch would have been over a sports saloon. It’s half a tonne lighter apart from anything else.

Oh don't get me wrong, it's a fun car.. but just not all that 'hot' in performance terms compared to what a hot hatch is these days. Typical hot hatch nowadays is around 300hp and in ICE form no heavier than any other hatch of the same sizes.

I've always thought Tesla missed a trick by not having the Model 3 be a hatch, the extra practicality would have made a great all round car even better! Granted the handling is a bit 'Tesla' and not all that chuckable as you say. It does however prove that serious power can fit in an hot hatch sized EV and still have decent range and not be hugely heavy.

[Europa Jon]

Well, the 200kW Smart coming in 2023 is the only one so far to meet the OP's brief (as long as the interior really will be as good as the maker claims). As for looks, coming from a Tesla means it'll be prettier!

[jamesbilluk]

ajap1979 said:

I’d love that. Unfortunately I can’t get my head around the regular e costing £36k.

Didn't know the reguar ones were that much! I must not have being paying attention.

[T1berious]

ajap1979 said:

jamesbilluk said:

I always thought it was a shame that Honda didn't make a hotter 'e' Type R

An old article https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/honda-e-...

I’d love that. Unfortunately I can’t get my head around the regular e costing £36k.

Crazy times though, a Golf R is 50k with options (remember when they were a performance bargain?) and here we are 2022, the Genesis GV60 tops out at 77k..

You might as well just stump up the extra and get a Taycan (IMHO).

[272BHP]

Europa Jon said:

Well, the 200kW Smart coming in 2023 is the only one so far to meet the OP's brief (as long as the interior really will be as good as the maker claims). As for looks, coming from a Tesla means it'll be prettier!

Meet my brief? good god no, it looks a monstrous thing. Automotive cardigan and slippers.
I wouldn't be seen dead in one of them.

I am not a great fan of the Tesla's looks but it kicks that Smart car right in the goolies.

[TheDeuce]

272BHP said:

Europa Jon said:

Well, the 200kW Smart coming in 2023 is the only one so far to meet the OP's brief (as long as the interior really will be as good as the maker claims). As for looks, coming from a Tesla means it'll be prettier!

Meet my brief? good god no, it looks a monstrous thing. Automotive cardigan and slippers.
I wouldn't be seen dead in one of them.

I am not a great fan of the Tesla's looks but it kicks that Smart car right in the goolies.

I agree. It's a turd of thing to look at.

It's one of those EV's that screams 'I'm different, look at me!'

fk that. I love driving an EV but it has to be mainstream and fit in, otherwise it's a pious, shouty novelty. I like the EV solution to making a car, I'm not a balls out eco-warrior and I don't need my car to alert others to the fact it's EV because the designer went to a environmental convention and came back wanting to make a statement. No, ps off. I'll have a car that looks like a car.

The weird thing is I swear the average PH'er assumes those of us that do drive EV's do so for green reason or to stand out. I've honestly not yet heard anyone on here who does drive an EV have any such intent though. It's just a better car for the daily and a bit of fun.

Hence, the mind boggles as to where all the whacky designs come from and why/who wants them.

[S600BSB]

Ipace. Does it all.

[delta0]

SWoll said:

£77k?

Probably the top spec version. Going through the Korean website they are £40k for the base spec one.

[Olibol]

TheDeuce said:

The weird thing is I swear the average PH'er assumes those of us that do drive EV's do so for green reason or to stand out. I've honestly not yet heard anyone on here who does drive an EV have any such intent though. It's just a better car for the daily and a bit of fun.

I’m one of those people who drives an EV primarily for environmental reasons. It helps that some of them are pretty good though. I’m not a hair shirt environmentalist, but I do all the things I can without dramatically changing my lifestyle. I’m a lifelong car enthusiast, but much as I love and miss loud, smelly and fun-first cars, I just don’t get the enjoyment out of them any more, knowing what we now know. I don’t particularly care about other people’s motivation for driving EVs - and clearly the only way to get quick and widespread adoption is for them to appeal to people to put performance and cost-saving first.

All that said, I agree with you that the Smart is a weird looking thing. They’ve managed to make it look top heavy, which is quite an achievement.

[Harry Flashman]

Following with interest. I love in London and we have a Leaf, which I have grown to love as it is just fantastic city transport and a zero stress drive - and it is 95% used on journeys of less than 30 miles.

It is leased, so at replacement I would like sometging this size, with five doors: but with a very luxurious/interesting interior. Performance irrelevant to me, but good ride essential.

So far Honda-E was the front runner. Going to read this thread now!

[Harry Flashman]

272BHP said:

The Polestar, EQA and Audis are all just a bit too big.

The ID3 or Born are the ideal size and look perfectly packaged it is just the power trains that seem a bit lack lustre at the moment.

I feel the same as you, OP. Small is so good in town.

The more I think, the more I think Honda E. Just love the looks and interior. And interior is the killer for me as a town car, as that's where a boring drive begins to feel special.

Edited by Harry Flashman on Saturday 14th May 07:41

[page3]

T1berious said:

Crazy times though, a Golf R is 50k with options (remember when they were a performance bargain?) and here we are 2022, the Genesis GV60 tops out at 77k..

You might as well just stump up the extra and get a Taycan (IMHO).

I don’t “get” the Genesis. We looked at it and the Ioniq 5 at Fully Charged Live and the Ioniq was far nicer, for quite a bit less money.

Neither can be labelled a hot hatch though. They’re massive.