Anyone been tempted to return to ICE for one last hurrah?

[johnjamesjack]

Kind of like the title says!

I’ve had an i3 for just under a year. Great fun to drive, but it’s been the most unreliable vehicle I’ve ever owned. Did 80k across 3 Audis before I got this with 2 warranty issues in total, in 15k miles the i3’s been to the dealer 5 times with a 6th scheduled.

Without question it needs to go. Before I’d been thinking of going for another electric (Q4, e-tron, iX3 maybe as although BMW have been awful to me I love the interior), but I’ve seen a couple SQ5s that meet my (admittedly high) spec requirements.

With everything that’s happening, it may not be the most financially sound decision, but seeing as the ICE’s days are numbered has anyone else been tempted to get one more? I don’t think I’d be considering it for a boggo 40TDI Q5, but I feel with something (comparatively) special it might be worth it. I’m currently living well within my means so inflation isn’t (too) scary for me, and I could pay for the SQ5 with the cash in my current account plus the i3 trade in…

[Puzzles]

If you can do both. EV as a daily and an ICE for the weekend.

[johnjamesjack]

Puzzles said:

If you can do both. EV as a daily and an ICE for the weekend.

Would love to. Tbf I’ve got the use of a Q7 but that’s coming to an end soon, it’s a great setup. Unfortunately I’m about to move somewhere with only one parking spot so I need to decide!

[somouk]

You’ll still be able to get ICE for years to come but they may not be new. The cost of running it will slowly increase though.

If you are moving somewhere new I would be more concerned about the ability to charge an EV in that parking space if it doesn’t already have a charger.

[johnjamesjack]

somouk said:

You’ll still be able to get ICE for years to come but they may not be new. The cost of running it will slowly increase though.

If you are moving somewhere new I would be more concerned about the ability to charge an EV in that parking space if it doesn’t already have a charger.

Running cost is definitely a big consideration - I don’t want to be running a petrol car in 10 years!

I’m moving to London - I still need the car for work, so am definitely keeping it. Public charging doesn’t seem too bad, but then there’s the problem of more potential charges - I’ve quite enjoyed going into the congestion zone for free hahaha

[NMNeil]

johnjamesjack said:

Running cost is definitely a big consideration - I don’t want to be running a petrol car in 10 years!

The way things are going there may not be any petrol available in 10 years.

[anonymous-user]

Have you got the range extender i3 version?


I've had 2 BEV i3's for 7 years in total and exactly nothing has ever gone wrong with either. Ok, sample of one, but i think the BEV version from around 2016 onwards is really very reliable as far as i can tell?

[johnjamesjack]

Max_Torque said:

Have you got the range extender i3 version?


I've had 2 BEV i3's for 7 years in total and exactly nothing has ever gone wrong with either. Ok, sample of one, but i think the BEV version from around 2016 onwards is really very reliable as far as i can tell?

I’ve got an LCI 2018 BEV. To be fair, it’s not stuff like refusing to charge or randomly stopping - but I’ve had a battery module go (3k cost if it wasn’t in warranty), collision assist randomly go off a few times at 60+mph, unreliable adaptive cruise, a wind whistle that two dealers now have blamed on prior accident damage despite it being a CPO from Guildford BMW, and the 12V socket and USB port stop working. Oh and weirdly rattling windows, sat nav screen and seatbelt mounts! Reading BMW also absolutely ruined a door seal but that’s another story

Edited to add the rattles, had completely forgotten them hahahah

Edited by johnjamesjack on Tuesday 24th May 22:11

[SWoll]

Puzzles said:

If you can do both. EV as a daily and an ICE for the weekend.

That's what I plan to do later this year. EV for daily grind and around town + something noisy and daft for weekend fun and touring, best of both worlds.

johnjamesjack said:

I’ve got an LCI 2018 BEV. To be fair, it’s not stuff like refusing to charge or randomly stopping - but I’ve had a battery module go (3k cost if it wasn’t in warranty), collision assist randomly go off a few times at 60+mph, unreliable adaptive cruise, a wind whistle that two dealers now have blamed on prior accident damage despite it being a CPO from Guildford BMW, and the 12V socket and USB port stop working. Oh and weirdly rattling windows, sat nav screen and seatbelt mounts! Reading BMW also absolutely ruined a door seal but that’s another story

Edited to add the rattles, had completely forgotten them hahahah

Edited by johnjamesjack on Tuesday 24th May 22:11

Sounds you've gotten unlucky and landed on a lemon. General consensus of later BEV models seems very good from what I've seen, I'd avoid the Rex though.

[DMZ]

To the original question, I think ICE is superior so yes… I think EVs are probably minimally 2-3 years away from being good enough. I don’t mean stuff like range and charging but as an experience and in terms of packaging. We have an EV in the household so can use it but not something I do day to day. I think I’m actually gradually losing interest in EVs. I can’t think of one that interests me. There is a certain sameness about them and once you have done the whole “this is different from ICE” then you’ve kind of done it. The generic blob look is not that appealing either tbh. I’m sure in time manufacturers will figure this out or I will forget about how cars used to drive and what they looked like (and sounded like).

[C.A.R.]

To be fair the i3 is more of a small city car than a primary 'single vehicle' Jack-of-all-trades. Perhaps what you need is a decent modern EV rather than a city runabout?

SQ5's, as nice as they are, surely only at some point going to get priced out of London?

[johnjamesjack]

SWoll said:

Sounds you've gotten unlucky and landed on a lemon. General consensus of later BEV models seems very good from what I've seen, I'd avoid the Rex though.

I know, and that’s the thing that’s a bit of a killer. When I bought it, I genuinely thought I’d keep it for 5+ years (longest I’ve had a car for before was 4). It’s still absolutely perfect for nipping to the shops or into London, where I genuinely can’t think of a car I’d rather be in.

But the unreliability of this particular car is a joke. I’d traded in an A3 e-tron PHEV that was just about to pass 70k miles thinking this would be more reliable, how wrong I was! 6 dealer visits in 12 months is a complete joke.

[johnjamesjack]

DMZ said:

To the original question, I think ICE is superior so yes… I think EVs are probably minimally 2-3 years away from being good enough. I don’t mean stuff like range and charging but as an experience and in terms of packaging. We have an EV in the household so can use it but not something I do day to day. I think I’m actually gradually losing interest in EVs. I can’t think of one that interests me. There is a certain sameness about them and once you have done the whole “this is different from ICE” then you’ve kind of done it. The generic blob look is not that appealing either tbh. I’m sure in time manufacturers will figure this out or I will forget about how cars used to drive and what they looked like (and sounded like).

Exactly the same. I was excited when I saw the i3 as it was something different and fun. Test drove a Q4 and it didn’t even feel like an Audi imho, the e-tron is very nice too but not exciting. Not tried the iX3 but not expecting it to be anything that’ll knock my socks off.

[SWoll]

DMZ said:

To the original question, I think ICE is superior so yes… I think EVs are probably minimally 2-3 years away from being good enough. I don’t mean stuff like range and charging but as an experience and in terms of packaging. We have an EV in the household so can use it but not something I do day to day. I think I’m actually gradually losing interest in EVs. I can’t think of one that interests me. There is a certain sameness about them and once you have done the whole “this is different from ICE” then you’ve kind of done it. The generic blob look is not that appealing either tbh. I’m sure in time manufacturers will figure this out or I will forget about how cars used to drive and what they looked like (and sounded like).

Not really understanding your point. EV's come in many shapes and sizes and from a packaging perspective are far superior to ICE in most cases. I also don't get the "all the same" argument. We've had 3 now and they've all been utterly different in the way they are operated and how they drive.

As a day to day drivetrain I don't miss ICE in the slightest. What I do miss is not having a car I'd grab the keys to just to drive for the sake of it. That's where they fall down for me at present, although not driven a Taycan yet.

[johnjamesjack]

C.A.R. said:

To be fair the i3 is more of a small city car than a primary 'single vehicle' Jack-of-all-trades. Perhaps what you need is a decent modern EV rather than a city runabout?

SQ5's, as nice as they are, surely only at some point going to get priced out of London?

Yeah completely agree about the i3 not being great as a primary vehicle - 90% of the time I’m going somewhere, I’ll grab the keys to the BMW, but for the 10% of journeys that I’m using the Q7 for it would literally be impossible to take the i3 (a bunch of stuff, people, or distance covered!)

I’ve tried a few newer/bigger EVs. As well as being quite expensive for what I’d want (£10k more than the SQ5 for an e-tron, £20k for a properly specced Q4), they just don’t give me the same spark I got the first time I drove the i3. My grandma had a 2016 SQ5 I used when I was interning in the US one summer, and I absolutely loved it. I know it’s a different generation but can’t imagine it being that different from the ones I’m looking at.

[SWoll]

johnjamesjack said:

DMZ said:

To the original question, I think ICE is superior so yes… I think EVs are probably minimally 2-3 years away from being good enough. I don’t mean stuff like range and charging but as an experience and in terms of packaging. We have an EV in the household so can use it but not something I do day to day. I think I’m actually gradually losing interest in EVs. I can’t think of one that interests me. There is a certain sameness about them and once you have done the whole “this is different from ICE” then you’ve kind of done it. The generic blob look is not that appealing either tbh. I’m sure in time manufacturers will figure this out or I will forget about how cars used to drive and what they looked like (and sounded like).

Exactly the same. I was excited when I saw the i3 as it was something different and fun. Test drove a Q4 and it didn’t even feel like an Audi imho, the e-tron is very nice too but not exciting. Not tried the iX3 but not expecting it to be anything that’ll knock my socks off.

Have you driven an i4 M50 or Model 3 Performance? Sound like they might be more your thing, if not I'd suggest EV's aren't likely to be for you.

[johnjamesjack]

SWoll said:

Not really understanding your point. EV's come in many shapes and sizes and from a packaging perspective are far superior to ICE in most cases. I also don't get the "all the same" argument. We've had 3 now and they've all been utterly different in the way they are operated and how they drive.

As a day to day drivetrain I don't miss ICE in the slightest. What I do miss is not having a car I'd grab the keys to just to drive for the sake of it. That's where they fall down for me at present, although not driven a Taycan yet.

Can’t speak for the OP but for me the VW platform has kind of ruined it for me. The enyaq/ID4/Q4 all look very similar to me, not completely sold on Tesla’s design, and the rest are either a bit too coupe/SUV (think ipace or EV6) or just a bit boring.

I definitely would miss the way electric cars go if I did the switch back. I love the fact that it goes so smoothly - I’d almost say the i3 is at the point where I’d go for a drive for the sake of a drive, but not quite as much as my mum’s 1.8tfsi A3 cabrio that I’ve been running whilst she’s on vacation. Taycan is lovely - although imho not as fun as an SQ5 and a bit out of my price range!

[johnjamesjack]

[/quote]

Have you driven an i4 M50 or Model 3 Performance? Sound like they might be more your thing, if not I'd suggest EV's aren't likely to be for you.


[/quote]

Unfortunately both are a bit out of my current price range. The thing is, I love EVs in principle, and absolutely love my i3 and would have kept it for another 4 years were it not for all the issues it’s had. Honestly the most tempting thing for me right now in terms of EVs is an e-tron, I just really didn’t love the Q4 and a sunroof is a must have meaning I’d have to spend 66k on a 50 vorsprung!

[SWoll]

johnjamesjack said:

SWoll said:

Not really understanding your point. EV's come in many shapes and sizes and from a packaging perspective are far superior to ICE in most cases. I also don't get the "all the same" argument. We've had 3 now and they've all been utterly different in the way they are operated and how they drive.

As a day to day drivetrain I don't miss ICE in the slightest. What I do miss is not having a car I'd grab the keys to just to drive for the sake of it. That's where they fall down for me at present, although not driven a Taycan yet.

Can’t speak for the OP but for me the VW platform has kind of ruined it for me. The enyaq/ID4/Q4 all look very similar to me, not completely sold on Tesla’s design, and the rest are either a bit too coupe/SUV (think ipace or EV6) or just a bit boring.

I definitely would miss the way electric cars go if I did the switch back. I love the fact that it goes so smoothly - I’d almost say the i3 is at the point where I’d go for a drive for the sake of a drive, but not quite as much as my mum’s 1.8tfsi A3 cabrio that I’ve been running whilst she’s on vacation. Taycan is lovely - although imho not as fun as an SQ5 and a bit out of my price range!

If a 1.8 A3 and SQ5 are your idea of grab the keys fun then 100% stick with ICE.

For me to have one back on the drive it would need to be something pretty special from an engine perspective or just not worth the hassle. I'm thinking Maserati GT, XFR-S, M3 V8 etc.

[johnjamesjack]

SWoll said:

If a 1.8 A3 and SQ5 are your idea of grab the keys fun then 100% stick with ICE.

For me to have one back on the drive it would need to be something pretty special from an engine perspective or just not worth the hassle. I'm thinking Maserati GT, XFR-S, M3 V8 etc.

With the A3 I think it’s more just having a cabrio in the nice weather!

I’m not sure the SQ5 would be grab-your-keys fun - however I definitely think that it would be more fun than my i3, with the added bonus of not having to worry about the unreliability (and the weird predisposition to punctures it seems to have, never had one before but I’ve had 3 in 15k on the i3).