How much is your EV costing you to run?

[TheDeuce]

wemorgan said:

jinba-ittai said:

That's great, and would give an overall cost per kWh of about 21p per kWh

Which will then likely be over 30p in four months time which ok isn't 40p, but still expensive

Edited by jinba-ittai on Saturday 18th June 12:38

Edited by jinba-ittai on Saturday 18th June 12:52

Prices are rising but so is petrol.
My spreadsheet still shows a 10ppm saving using EV.
If on an Economy 7 tarrif it would be greater.

Energy costs rise more or less in unison, if electricity continues to climb, so will liquid fuels.

But even today it's easy enough to get a reduced cost overnight tariff - it always will be because there is a ££ value in helping to balance the grid by drawing power overnight.

An EV charged on such a tariff overnight can be significantly cheaper than diesel/petrol. I don't expect that situation to change.

[anonymous-user]

Is this true? EV depreciation being higher than a ICE car?

https://www.slashgear.com/909209/the-truth-behind-...

[caziques]

Not much point in believing anything in an article which states that EV batteries will need changing after eight years.

[Toaster Pilot]

Island Hermit said:

Is this true? EV depreciation being higher than a ICE car?

https://www.slashgear.com/909209/the-truth-behind-...

Go and look at how much used EVs cost and I think you’ll answer that question pretty quickly - lots of them are even appreciating right now

[TheDeuce]

Island Hermit said:

Is this true? EV depreciation being higher than a ICE car?

https://www.slashgear.com/909209/the-truth-behind-...

An article written for morons, by a moron.

Good find.

[OutInTheShed]

Island Hermit said:

Is this true? EV depreciation being higher than a ICE car?

https://www.slashgear.com/909209/the-truth-behind-...

You have to bear in mind:
1) It's USA focused. The market is different, many IC cars look cheaper, different EVs have been sold....

2) All cars depreciate. Give or take a few supercars and so on. They cost a lot new, they aren't worth much at 15 years old.

3) you can 'measure' depreciation in a thousand different ways to support whatever headline you like.

4) Covid and the end of the low inflation, lost interest rate era has scrambled the data for the last few years, some market blips are obvious, we've seen 3 year old Golfs appreciate, I don't know anyone who expects that trend to continue, but a lot of people are beyond reluctant to admit that the same anomalies are at work in more subtle ways across the whole market including EVs.

[Amateurish]

OutInTheShed said:

You have to bear in mind:
1) It's USA focused. The market is different, many IC cars look cheaper, different EVs have been sold....

2) All cars depreciate. Give or take a few supercars and so on. They cost a lot new, they aren't worth much at 15 years old.

3) you can 'measure' depreciation in a thousand different ways to support whatever headline you like.

4) Covid and the end of the low inflation, lost interest rate era has scrambled the data for the last few years, some market blips are obvious, we've seen 3 year old Golfs appreciate, I don't know anyone who expects that trend to continue, but a lot of people are beyond reluctant to admit that the same anomalies are at work in more subtle ways across the whole market including EVs.

Agreed. And

5) The depreciation on US EVs is artificially inflated by the federal tax rebate of $7,500 + any state rebates.

[poo at Paul's]

Toaster Pilot said:

Island Hermit said:

Is this true? EV depreciation being higher than a ICE car?

https://www.slashgear.com/909209/the-truth-behind-...

Go and look at how much used EVs cost and I think you’ll answer that question pretty quickly - lots of them are even appreciating right now

I think it’s not as clear cut as people make out.
Cheapest electric cars are leaf’s and Zoe’s of around 2012 vintage, around 7k.
Similar miles and ages diesel Clio, 3k or so.
So it looks like the electric wins on percentages. But the Clio was 15k new, the Zoe 30k or so. So it’s close on percentages, and in pure value terms, one’s depreciated 23k, the other 12k.

The new gen of niros and id3 are holding fast due to supply issues and demand, but will this continue?
The cost of new EVs is a true barrier to entry.

[TheDeuce]

poo at Paul's said:

Toaster Pilot said:

Island Hermit said:

Is this true? EV depreciation being higher than a ICE car?

https://www.slashgear.com/909209/the-truth-behind-...

Go and look at how much used EVs cost and I think you’ll answer that question pretty quickly - lots of them are even appreciating right now

I think it’s not as clear cut as people make out.
Cheapest electric cars are leaf’s and Zoe’s of around 2012 vintage, around 7k.
Similar miles and ages diesel Clio, 3k or so.
So it looks like the electric wins on percentages. But the Clio was 15k new, the Zoe 30k or so. So it’s close on percentages, and in pure value terms, one’s depreciated 23k, the other 12k.

The new gen of niros and id3 are holding fast due to supply issues and demand, but will this continue?
The cost of new EVs is a true barrier to entry.

But over that ten year period, assuming 10k p/a mileage, the leaf will easily have saved at very least £1000 per year in running costs over the diesel Clio.

Got to add up road tax, replacement brakes, probably clutch, endless servicing and obviously fuel over that period. I'd expect the savings are actually more like £1300-1500 per year, which would make the Leaf the cheaper ten year car. Also, it's a far better car than the diesel Clio - EV is perfect for the small/city car.

And in a couple more years that £3k Clio is £500 or scrap. Will the Leaf ever get quite that low? It depends, we're only just starting to see EV get to the end of their useful lives, we have yet to see how quickly industry will react to buy the old cells back and what value they may place on them.

[OutInTheShed]

TheDeuce said:

But over that ten year period, assuming 10k p/a mileage, the leaf will easily have saved at very least £1000 per year in running costs over the diesel Clio.

Got to add up road tax, replacement brakes, probably clutch, endless servicing and obviously fuel over that period. I'd expect the savings are actually more like £1300-1500 per year, which would make the Leaf the cheaper ten year car. Also, it's a far better car than the diesel Clio - EV is perfect for the small/city car.

And in a couple more years that £3k Clio is £500 or scrap. Will the Leaf ever get quite that low? It depends, we're only just starting to see EV get to the end of their useful lives, we have yet to see how quickly industry will react to buy the old cells back and what value they may place on them.

That's sort of true, but if you take a butcher's at autotrader, the £7-8k 2012/3 foliage has mostly only got about 60k miles on it. So your starting assumption is dubious. Maybe it's only saved £600 a year in fuel costs?
Maybe it's saved a fortune in congestion charge?
Maybe it's enabled a London commute that just wasn't an option with IC.

Conversely, maybe the diesel has given great value doing a lot of journeys where the Leaf would have been hard work.

I'm sure most people see themselves as getting value out of their cars, but the overwhelming issue is they cost a lot new and depreciate. Plus ca change.

[TheDeuce]

OutInTheShed said:

TheDeuce said:

But over that ten year period, assuming 10k p/a mileage, the leaf will easily have saved at very least £1000 per year in running costs over the diesel Clio.

Got to add up road tax, replacement brakes, probably clutch, endless servicing and obviously fuel over that period. I'd expect the savings are actually more like £1300-1500 per year, which would make the Leaf the cheaper ten year car. Also, it's a far better car than the diesel Clio - EV is perfect for the small/city car.

And in a couple more years that £3k Clio is £500 or scrap. Will the Leaf ever get quite that low? It depends, we're only just starting to see EV get to the end of their useful lives, we have yet to see how quickly industry will react to buy the old cells back and what value they may place on them.

That's sort of true, but if you take a butcher's at autotrader, the £7-8k 2012/3 foliage has mostly only got about 60k miles on it. So your starting assumption is dubious. Maybe it's only saved £600 a year in fuel costs?
Maybe it's saved a fortune in congestion charge?
Maybe it's enabled a London commute that just wasn't an option with IC.

Conversely, maybe the diesel has given great value doing a lot of journeys where the Leaf would have been hard work.

I'm sure most people see themselves as getting value out of their cars, but the overwhelming issue is they cost a lot new and depreciate. Plus ca change.

[TheDeuce]

OutInTheShed said:

TheDeuce said:

But over that ten year period, assuming 10k p/a mileage, the leaf will easily have saved at very least £1000 per year in running costs over the diesel Clio.

Got to add up road tax, replacement brakes, probably clutch, endless servicing and obviously fuel over that period. I'd expect the savings are actually more like £1300-1500 per year, which would make the Leaf the cheaper ten year car. Also, it's a far better car than the diesel Clio - EV is perfect for the small/city car.

And in a couple more years that £3k Clio is £500 or scrap. Will the Leaf ever get quite that low? It depends, we're only just starting to see EV get to the end of their useful lives, we have yet to see how quickly industry will react to buy the old cells back and what value they may place on them.

That's sort of true, but if you take a butcher's at autotrader, the £7-8k 2012/3 foliage has mostly only got about 60k miles on it. So your starting assumption is dubious. Maybe it's only saved £600 a year in fuel costs?
Maybe it's saved a fortune in congestion charge?
Maybe it's enabled a London commute that just wasn't an option with IC.

Conversely, maybe the diesel has given great value doing a lot of journeys where the Leaf would have been hard work.

I'm sure most people see themselves as getting value out of their cars, but the overwhelming issue is they cost a lot new and depreciate. Plus ca change.

I based it on a typical mileage of 10k pa, I have to base the comparison on something - yes, you're right, less miles = less saving in yes of fuel savings.

But I didn't just factor in fuel. Even at 6k miles pa, about £600 a year fuel saving, you get straight back up to about £1000 pa saving overall once you've added in the other stuff I listed.

[ashenfie]

What about purchasing the car, did you factor that in?

[Evanivitch]

Amateurish said:

OutInTheShed said:

You have to bear in mind:
1) It's USA focused. The market is different, many IC cars look cheaper, different EVs have been sold....

2) All cars depreciate. Give or take a few supercars and so on. They cost a lot new, they aren't worth much at 15 years old.

3) you can 'measure' depreciation in a thousand different ways to support whatever headline you like.

4) Covid and the end of the low inflation, lost interest rate era has scrambled the data for the last few years, some market blips are obvious, we've seen 3 year old Golfs appreciate, I don't know anyone who expects that trend to continue, but a lot of people are beyond reluctant to admit that the same anomalies are at work in more subtle ways across the whole market including EVs.

Agreed. And

5) The depreciation on US EVs is artificially inflated by the federal tax rebate of $7,500 + any state rebates.

And not forgetting that there has been a major battery scandal around the Chevy Bolt. A car which we didn't get in the UK (Opel called it the Ampera-e).

[TheDeuce]

ashenfie said:

What about purchasing the car, did you factor that in?

The posts above yours detail the purchase price and depreciation of the cars being discussed..

[TheDeuce]

Evanivitch said:

Amateurish said:

OutInTheShed said:

You have to bear in mind:
1) It's USA focused. The market is different, many IC cars look cheaper, different EVs have been sold....

2) All cars depreciate. Give or take a few supercars and so on. They cost a lot new, they aren't worth much at 15 years old.

3) you can 'measure' depreciation in a thousand different ways to support whatever headline you like.

4) Covid and the end of the low inflation, lost interest rate era has scrambled the data for the last few years, some market blips are obvious, we've seen 3 year old Golfs appreciate, I don't know anyone who expects that trend to continue, but a lot of people are beyond reluctant to admit that the same anomalies are at work in more subtle ways across the whole market including EVs.

Agreed. And

5) The depreciation on US EVs is artificially inflated by the federal tax rebate of $7,500 + any state rebates.

And not forgetting that there has been a major battery scandal around the Chevy Bolt. A car which we didn't get in the UK (Opel called it the Ampera-e).

The same market distortion definitely effects EV's just the same, in fact in some cases potentially more so as EV's are subject to the same supply delays as ICE but also battery supply remains limited and global logistics ever more complex and in slow/expensive too.

My mate has just been told that the i4 he ordered in Sept 2021 will be here some time in 2023! This causes me great sadness as I was waiting on a test drive of his ahead of potentially ordering one to replace my EV in about a years time. This news screws up that plan in every way.

[Amateurish]

poo at Paul's said:

I think it’s not as clear cut as people make out.
Cheapest electric cars are leaf’s and Zoe’s of around 2012 vintage, around 7k.
Similar miles and ages diesel Clio, 3k or so.
So it looks like the electric wins on percentages. But the Clio was 15k new, the Zoe 30k or so. So it’s close on percentages, and in pure value terms, one’s depreciated 23k, the other 12k.

The new gen of niros and id3 are holding fast due to supply issues and demand, but will this continue?
The cost of new EVs is a true barrier to entry.

You are forgetting the EV grant of £5k plus discounts. I bought a brand new Leaf Tekna in 2015 for £17k. That car would now be worth £10k.

[OutInTheShed]

Amateurish said:

You are forgetting the EV grant of £5k plus discounts. I bought a brand new Leaf Tekna in 2015 for £17k. That car would now be worth £10k.

Just one of several things which have filled the market with anomalies.

What do people want to know?

We can discuss how people have had great deals on the public tit with early adopter bribes, we can discuss depreciation over the last year, n years etc.
We can attempt to understand what depreciation might be going forwards.

We can bang on at random, mixing up those and other things, often at cross purposes.

Personally, I'm wondering, if I buy a used EV in the near future, what I might expect the depreciation to be over say 3 years, 30k miles.

[TheDeuce]

OutInTheShed said:

Amateurish said:

You are forgetting the EV grant of £5k plus discounts. I bought a brand new Leaf Tekna in 2015 for £17k. That car would now be worth £10k.

Just one of several things which have filled the market with anomalies.

What do people want to know?

We can discuss how people have had great deals on the public tit with early adopter bribes, we can discuss depreciation over the last year, n years etc.
We can attempt to understand what depreciation might be going forwards.

We can bang on at random, mixing up those and other things, often at cross purposes.

Personally, I'm wondering, if I buy a used EV in the near future, what I might expect the depreciation to be over say 3 years, 30k miles.

Back in 'normal' times, I'd say treat an EV like any other car. The best time to buy one is probably after it's first owner and run it for another few years. Slap an aftermarket warranty on it if it's particularly fragile or expensive.

But for the last several years I've found it cheaper overall to wait until a manufacturer has excess units to shift (often to keep production lines at peak output), and then pick up a stupidly cheap lease deal. There's none at present for obvious reasons, but once things settle down there's no reason cheap lease deals should not remain.

[Turtle Shed]

Well my 2014 Leaf is valued at around £7.5k on WBAC, that an increase from around £6.5k a year ago. It's saving me about £130/month in fuel. If someone offered me £10k for it I wouldn't take it.