Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?

[Nomme de Plum]

whirlybird said:

As an aside, I actually come from Aylesbury (Buckinghamshire) originally, ( but not the Aylesbury Estate in Walford )
but if you've ever been through Aylesbury in rush hour I can see why an estate was named after it. Once you've been there you never want to return !!!!

I do recall Aylesbury. I lived close to Hemel Hempstead for a few years. As I recall correctly it had quite a good furniture store, Lucas. The Chilterns was a lovely area to be but now i can walk to the beach in less than 10mins and my boat in 5 so that's nirvana for me.

[whirlybird]

Nomme de Plum said:

whirlybird said:

As an aside, I actually come from Aylesbury (Buckinghamshire) originally, ( but not the Aylesbury Estate in Walford )
but if you've ever been through Aylesbury in rush hour I can see why an estate was named after it. Once you've been there you never want to return !!!!

I do recall Aylesbury. I lived close to Hemel Hempstead for a few years. As I recall correctly it had quite a good furniture store, Lucas. The Chilterns was a lovely area to be but now i can walk to the beach in less than 10mins and my boat in 5 so that's nirvana for me.

Like you, I,m now near the coast, keep a canoe and paddle board in a local boatyard, so go most weekends.
Lucas furniture is the family firm of the Green MP, Caroline. The town has been trying to get a Ring Road for 40 years + with no luck, and HS2 is going through the middle, so its chaos !!!

[Soupdragon65]

Just borrowed my wife’s Mini Countryman (2019) to take stuff to the recycling depot

Good God ICE vehicles, even modern ones with DCT, are st aren’t they?

I had forgotten how jerky and unpleasant to drive they are compared to the silky smooth drive of an EV.

[silent ninja]

Interesting piece. SEAT has been neglected by VW for years, and the silence on EVs is deafening: SEAT have zero EVs in the pipeline let alone in the market today. This might be the final nail?

I had a SEAT Ateca which was a brilliant mid sized SUV - drove 'sporty' for an SUV, very practical with good boot and enough space for 3 in the back, good DSG gearbox and general comfort. Really surprised VW are likely canning the brand

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/359870/seat-cou...

[SpeckledJim]

silent ninja said:

Interesting piece. SEAT has been neglected by VW for years, and the silence on EVs is deafening: SEAT have zero EVs in the pipeline let alone in the market today. This might be the final nail?

I had a SEAT Ateca which was a brilliant mid sized SUV - drove 'sporty' for an SUV, very practical with good boot and enough space for 3 in the back, good DSG gearbox and general comfort. Really surprised VW are likely canning the brand

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/359870/seat-cou...

Apart from blindly patriotic Spanish sales, I'm not sure what it's for. Unless each car is adding volume to the platform rather than just cannibalising sales from other group products, then it's just an expensive distraction.

Does SEAT bring anyone into the Volkswagen fold who wouldn't have just bought the Skoda or VW version if the SEAT version hadn't existed? Doubt it.

[SteveKTMer]

SpeckledJim said:

Apart from blindly patriotic Spanish sales, I'm not sure what it's for. Unless each car is adding volume to the platform rather than just cannibalising sales from other group products, then it's just an expensive distraction.

Does SEAT bring anyone into the Volkswagen fold who wouldn't have just bought the Skoda or VW version if the SEAT version hadn't existed? Doubt it.

It's hard enough now to differentiate current brands, but once they're all BEV, all look the same ugly, humpy shape that seems to sell, what's going to be the difference between Seat, Skoda and VW ?

[DonkeyApple]

silent ninja said:

Interesting piece. SEAT has been neglected by VW for years, and the silence on EVs is deafening: SEAT have zero EVs in the pipeline let alone in the market today. This might be the final nail?

I had a SEAT Ateca which was a brilliant mid sized SUV - drove 'sporty' for an SUV, very practical with good boot and enough space for 3 in the back, good DSG gearbox and general comfort. Really surprised VW are likely canning the brand

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/359870/seat-cou...

I thought that Cupra stuff being flogged to death was Seat?

[SpeckledJim]

SteveKTMer said:

SpeckledJim said:

Apart from blindly patriotic Spanish sales, I'm not sure what it's for. Unless each car is adding volume to the platform rather than just cannibalising sales from other group products, then it's just an expensive distraction.

Does SEAT bring anyone into the Volkswagen fold who wouldn't have just bought the Skoda or VW version if the SEAT version hadn't existed? Doubt it.

It's hard enough now to differentiate current brands, but once they're all BEV, all look the same ugly, humpy shape that seems to sell, what's going to be the difference between Seat, Skoda and VW ?

Skoda and VW gives a good opportunity to sell the same thing to two different crowds at different prices.

The Cupra idea works, ish, as a sexier, more youthful, sporty alternative to a Skoda, at a similar price. SEAT just looks a complete orphan to me. For me Skoda have done a better job of occupying the same spot, and made SEAT irrelevant.

[silent ninja]

Agree with the comments about SEAT. There's not enough differentiation between it and Skoda and VW anymore. It was always the cheaper way to buy a VW polo or golf, but with electrification that's not a good enough differentiator.

Styling is subjective, I've always found their hatchbacks more youthful, and the SUVs look less workman-like like Skodas, and less masculine than VW Tiguans/Touregs.

SUVs and EVs are massively impacting the car marker. It does feel like losing the Focus, Fiesta and SEAT brand are the start.

[bigothunter]

Soupdragon65 said:

Just borrowed my wife’s Mini Countryman (2019) to take stuff to the recycling depot

Good God ICE vehicles, even modern ones with DCT, are st aren’t they?

I had forgotten how jerky and unpleasant to drive they are compared to the silky smooth drive of an EV.

Certainly more demanding to drive than EVs. Maybe you are out of ICEV practice. Better to let your wife drive instead

[DonkeyApple]

silent ninja said:

Agree with the comments about SEAT. There's not enough differentiation between it and Skoda and VW anymore. It was always the cheaper way to buy a VW polo or golf, but with electrification that's not a good enough differentiator.

Styling is subjective, I've always found their hatchbacks more youthful, and the SUVs look less workman-like like Skodas, and less masculine than VW Tiguans/Touregs.

SUVs and EVs are massively impacting the car marker. It does feel like losing the Focus, Fiesta and SEAT brand are the start.

The primary purpose of the SEAT brand was originally because Spanish buyers wouldn't buy a car unless it had a Spanish badge and it was an important market for Vw to try and dominate over the French marques.

Maybe it's just the case that the Spanish don't care any more about that sort of thing?

But it does look like the game of flogging the same product under different badges has peaked?

Ford is just pulling the ICE models as it rolls out more and more VW platform ed smaller EVs.

Edited by DonkeyApple on Friday 24th March 17:00

[SWoll]

SteveKTMer said:

It's hard enough now to differentiate current brands, but once they're all BEV, all look the same ugly, humpy shape that seems to sell, what's going to be the difference between Seat, Skoda and VW ?

Styling, interior, price, options, suspension setup, drivetrain calibration?

I see very little difference to what the VAG group were doing pre BEV TBH.

[SWoll]

bigothunter said:

Soupdragon65 said:

Just borrowed my wife’s Mini Countryman (2019) to take stuff to the recycling depot

Good God ICE vehicles, even modern ones with DCT, are st aren’t they?

I had forgotten how jerky and unpleasant to drive they are compared to the silky smooth drive of an EV.

Certainly more demanding to drive than EVs. Maybe you are out of ICEV practice. Better to let your wife drive instead

As a daily car they feel hopelessly archaic when you're used to driving an EV IME.

For a weekend car, I'd take a more demanding ICE every time.

[Diderot]

SWoll said:

bigothunter said:

Soupdragon65 said:

Just borrowed my wife’s Mini Countryman (2019) to take stuff to the recycling depot

Good God ICE vehicles, even modern ones with DCT, are st aren’t they?

I had forgotten how jerky and unpleasant to drive they are compared to the silky smooth drive of an EV.

Certainly more demanding to drive than EVs. Maybe you are out of ICEV practice. Better to let your wife drive instead

As a daily car they feel hopelessly archaic when you're used to driving an EV IME.

For a weekend car, I'd take a more demanding ICE every time.

My wife commutes in the Volvo BEV two days a week, and on those days I take the Merc SL along the coast on my commute and I’m immediately struck by the vibrations through the steering wheel, the lack of grunt (it’s a 3.7 litre V6 that needs a lot of revs), and the general lack of refinement. Mind you, it’s a lovely thing on a summer’s day with the roof down.

[Dingu]

SteveKTMer said:

It's hard enough now to differentiate current brands, but once they're all BEV, all look the same ugly, humpy shape that seems to sell, what's going to be the difference between Seat, Skoda and VW ?

Could have said that about 4 pots and the current line ups too.

[Discombobulate]

silent ninja said:

Interesting piece. SEAT has been neglected by VW for years, and the silence on EVs is deafening: SEAT have zero EVs in the pipeline let alone in the market today. This might be the final nail?

I had a SEAT Ateca which was a brilliant mid sized SUV - drove 'sporty' for an SUV, very practical with good boot and enough space for 3 in the back, good DSG gearbox and general comfort. Really surprised VW are likely canning the brand

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/359870/seat-cou...

The Born?

[SpeckledJim]

Discombobulate said:

silent ninja said:

Interesting piece. SEAT has been neglected by VW for years, and the silence on EVs is deafening: SEAT have zero EVs in the pipeline let alone in the market today. This might be the final nail?

I had a SEAT Ateca which was a brilliant mid sized SUV - drove 'sporty' for an SUV, very practical with good boot and enough space for 3 in the back, good DSG gearbox and general comfort. Really surprised VW are likely canning the brand

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/359870/seat-cou...

The Born?

That’s a Cupra. It could have been a SEAT but very deliberately it isn’t.

[plfrench]

Soupdragon65 said:

Just borrowed my wife’s Mini Countryman (2019) to take stuff to the recycling depot

Good God ICE vehicles, even modern ones with DCT, are st aren’t they?

I had forgotten how jerky and unpleasant to drive they are compared to the silky smooth drive of an EV.

Yes, it's horrible having to go back to driving an ICE vehicle after you've got used to EV. They're just so slow and dim-witted in comparison.

I can't wait till my EV turns up - I'm so jealous of my wife having one again now. We've stuck 1200 miles on hers between us in the last 9 days due to me taking hers whenever it's around and my E350d has taken to gathering dust on the drive again just like it did last time when she had an EV.

[DMZ]

DonkeyApple said:

But it does look like the game of flogging the same product under different badges has peaked?

You mean it peaked with ICE, right? I don’t think so, it’s going to really take off now. Foxconn prefab platforms mass produced and white labelled by whoever. A couple of factories in Europe and the US to get the local tax breaks. It’s not hard for those kinds of companies to super optimise the manufacturing with unbeatable quality. It’s going to be like Android pretty much. Samey looking cars with slightly different OS skins, screen sizes, performance numbers, and battery sizes. None of them are all that exciting to use. Some have recognisable names and others are from hard to pronounce Chinese brands that you can only buy online. There will be some slightly sexier Apple equivalents that we will convince ourselves are worth the premium because some guy on YouTube talks excitedly about them but they really do the same thing.

[SpeckledJim]

I’d love to know if Dyson still thinks he made the right call taking such a huge loss killing his project.