Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?

[Merry]

Undercover McNoName said:

A new car to commute 1.5 miles, no surprise you brits are a bit lardy.

That's one of those daft distances that's a 2 minute drive but would take and average person (apparently people walk at 4mph) about 22 minutes to walk, a 44 minute round trip.

I think a lot of people will take the car and get 40 minutes of thier life back, regardless of thier fitness levels. It's got nothing to do with people being fat/lazy or British, it's everything about what they want to do with thier time.

[bigothunter]

GT9 said:

whirlybird said:

OK, let's just get a bit real here,
Who do YOU believe, Kwik-Fit (The tire fitters)
or Continental, the tire manufacturers, ????

The secret is to fit tyres, not tires, that massively changes the wear rate.

The real secret is to fit steel tyres running on steel rails...

[AMV93]

Undercover McNoName said:

A new car to commute 1.5 miles, no surprise you brits are a bit lardy.

guilty!

Although it’s done a lot more than the commute, average about 1k miles per month. Anyway, I’m saving the planet - it’s an EV…

[SWoll]

Merry said:

That's one of those daft distances that's a 2 minute drive but would take and average person (apparently people walk at 4mph) about 22 minutes to walk, a 44 minute round trip.

I think a lot of people will take the car and get 40 minutes of thier life back, regardless of thier fitness levels. It's got nothing to do with people being fat/lazy or British, it's everything about what they want to do with thier time.

We walk the dogs for longer than that on a daily basis. 44 minutes of peace where you can listen to some music/podcast etc. is exactly what many people could do with, without considering the exercise benefit.

Stop making excuses, it's pure laziness.

[Undercover McNoName]

Merry said:

That's one of those daft distances that's a 2 minute drive but would take and average person (apparently people walk at 4mph) about 22 minutes to walk, a 44 minute round trip.

I think a lot of people will take the car and get 40 minutes of thier life back, regardless of thier fitness levels. It's got nothing to do with people being fat/lazy or British, it's everything about what they want to do with thier time.

Have you ever heard of those new fangled bicycle thingies?

[Merry]

SWoll said:

We walk the dogs for longer than that on a daily basis. 44 minutes of peace where you can listen to some music/podcast etc. is exactly what many people could do with, without considering the exercise benefit.

Stop making excuses, it's pure laziness.

You do that because you want to. Some people want to do something else with their time. Like maybe get home on time so they can see thier kids. Or go somewhere nicer to walk thier dogs. Whatever. Maybe thier walk home would be down a noisy street in the rain. Or at a daft hour. Or both. Not exactly idyllic is it?

You can't buy time, to my mind no excuses need to be made if you want to save 40 odd minutes of it to do something you want to do.

Personally my commute is 21 miles, so I'm not ever walking that, but it annoys me when people instantly judge someone for something they may do for good reason.

[DonkeyApple]

Merry said:

Undercover McNoName said:

A new car to commute 1.5 miles, no surprise you brits are a bit lardy.

That's one of those daft distances that's a 2 minute drive but would take and average person (apparently people walk at 4mph) about 22 minutes to walk, a 44 minute round trip.

I think a lot of people will take the car and get 40 minutes of thier life back, regardless of thier fitness levels. It's got nothing to do with people being fat/lazy or British, it's everything about what they want to do with thier time.

It's a difficult area. Many people who have beloved the adverts that their time is really important will be fat, lazy people who have hours of spare time but lap up the marketing schpeel about how their high powered executive life means every second counts to try and feel less guilty about sitting on the sofa for hours in end eating biscuits.

We do need to be more honest and just openly accept that cars are awesome and cheap and as humans we will naturally use them as much as possible to get more sofa time. And that being human isn't evil and slowly switching to EV is sensible.

[Nomme de Plum]

DonkeyApple said:

It's a difficult area. Many people who have beloved the adverts that their time is really important will be fat, lazy people who have hours of spare time but lap up the marketing schpeel about how their high powered executive life means every second counts to try and feel less guilty about sitting on the sofa for hours in end eating biscuits.

We do need to be more honest and just openly accept that cars are awesome and cheap and as humans we will naturally use them as much as possible to get more sofa time. And that being human isn't evil and slowly switching to EV is sensible.

For most there are at least 16 waking hours in a day. Unless in some way impaired to drive just 2km to work seems incredibly lazy. A 20 minute walk or 5 minute cycle ride is much more beneficial. I'm pleased to see in my area that most children walk/cycle to school, although therefore a few that get ferried in huge SUVs.

[AstonZagato]

Nomme de Plum said:

For most there are at least 16 waking hours in a day. Unless in some way impaired to drive just 2km to work seems incredibly lazy. A 20 minute walk or 5 minute cycle ride is much more beneficial. I'm pleased to see in my area that most children walk/cycle to school, although therefore a few that get ferried in huge SUVs.

The last leg of my commute is a 15 minute tube journey, a 20 minute taxi or a 30 minute walk. I generally walk it as, in my mind, I get 35 minutes of exercise for 15/20 minutes of my time.

[SteveKTMer]

DonkeyApple said:

It's a difficult area. Many people who have beloved the adverts that their time is really important will be fat, lazy people who have hours of spare time but lap up the marketing schpeel about how their high powered executive life means every second counts to try and feel less guilty about sitting on the sofa for hours in end eating biscuits.

We do need to be more honest and just openly accept that cars are awesome and cheap and as humans we will naturally use them as much as possible to get more sofa time. And that being human isn't evil and slowly switching to EV is sensible.

As was made clear several pages ago, which was news to me at the time, we have to reduce the number of miles driven, significantly. I used to be the type of person who took the car everywhere. But my new slimmer, fitter self walks, not to save the planet but to save me. The NHS is facing a completely unaffordable cost in the coming years for type 2 diabetes care and people using cars to replace a 20 min walk is just madness. It takes 6 or 8 minutes to get in the car, drive and park so a walk is only really 10 or 12 mins longer. Plus 20 mins is just long enough for your heart rate to peak at something healthy and start a little fat burning.

I'm not perfect, I still take thew car if I have something heavy to carry or have to go on elsewhere, but it's a start and if I can do it then millions of others can. And I used to have exactly the same view as you so I understand

So it's clear that eliminating unnecessary journeys like the school run or short commute has to be part of the transition from ICE to EV, fewer miles, less charging required and therefore fewer charging stations, which is good as at this rate there won't be enough anyway.

[Michael_B]

Merry said:

Whatever. Maybe their walk home would be down a noisy street in the rain. Or at a daft hour. Or both. Not exactly idyllic is it?

It also appears that the person in question then needs the car during the day for business.

I have sometimes left my car (both ICE and EV) at work for that reason and cycled the 15km to/from the office (there is a changing room and shower at the office.)
Or walked 5km to the nearest station and taken the train.

But all this is in the summer sunshine, and the route is quiet Swiss country roads through the Rhône valley vineyards, looking up at the French Jura mountains.
So if not idyllic, it's not too far off

[Nomme de Plum]

AstonZagato said:

Nomme de Plum said:

For most there are at least 16 waking hours in a day. Unless in some way impaired to drive just 2km to work seems incredibly lazy. A 20 minute walk or 5 minute cycle ride is much more beneficial. I'm pleased to see in my area that most children walk/cycle to school, although therefore a few that get ferried in huge SUVs.

The last leg of my commute is a 15 minute tube journey, a 20 minute taxi or a 30 minute walk. I generally walk it as, in my mind, I get 35 minutes of exercise for 15/20 minutes of my time.

That's exactly the philosophy i used as well. Walk/ cycle from home to Woking station then Waterloo station to my office in Holborn and return later. Even though my black cab journeys were paid I'd regularly walk/bus between meetings during the day as well.

[vikingaero]

Mrs V. drives around 0.8 miles to work/school but she's normally loaded up with 30+ exercise books for each subject that she's taught the previous day, and all the work prepared for that day, along with assorted models and other teaching gumpf.

[Undercover McNoName]

vikingaero said:

Mrs V. drives around 0.8 miles to work/school but she's normally loaded up with 30+ exercise books for each subject that she's taught the previous day, and all the work prepared for that day, along with assorted models and other teaching gumpf.

Electric cargo bike.

[DonkeyApple]

Undercover McNoName said:

vikingaero said:

Mrs V. drives around 0.8 miles to work/school but she's normally loaded up with 30+ exercise books for each subject that she's taught the previous day, and all the work prepared for that day, along with assorted models and other teaching gumpf.

Electric cargo bike.

Or do the marking at prep at school before walking home?

[Nomme de Plum]

DonkeyApple said:

Undercover McNoName said:

vikingaero said:

Mrs V. drives around 0.8 miles to work/school but she's normally loaded up with 30+ exercise books for each subject that she's taught the previous day, and all the work prepared for that day, along with assorted models and other teaching gumpf.

Electric cargo bike.

Or do the marking at prep at school before walking home?

Quite.

To a certain extent it is a mindset. it does not have to be every day either.

We have become very used to jumping in the car as the de-facto method of travel.

[NMNeil]

Olivergt said:

whirlybird said:

OK, let's just get a bit real here,
Who do YOU believe, Kwik-Fit (The tire fitters)
or Continental, the tire manufacturers, ????

That's just the think though isn't it, it got nothing to do with who I believe, or who you believe has it.

It's about who is telling the truth, so how do we find that out?

This is from the RAC site referenced earlier:

"As for the EVs on the road today, their tyre wear is nowhere near as accelerated as some naysayers suggest."

From Nokian Tyres

"Contrary to what many people think, EV drivers need not worry about rapid tire wear. Tires on electric vehicles will often wear down more slowly than in cars with internal combustion engines."

https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/news-article/t...

And aparently, if you buy tyres specifically for an EV they last longer than ICE tyres:

https://autoexhaustandtyres.co.uk/news/do-electric...

And this final one fits your narrative and shows that research by kwik-fit has seen about a 4% difference between EV and ICE.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/tyre-...

Is 4% "Excessive" in your opinion?

Maybe listen to those who have actually conducted some research.
"Further investigations focused on emission control through regenerative braking and brake coating. Driving with regenerative braking reduced emissions by up to 89.9%, which related to the concentration of particles in the ultrafine/fine size range. Hard-metal brake coating led to a further significant reduction in emissions of up to 78.9%"
https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4433/14/3/488

[bigothunter]

NMNeil said:

Maybe listen to those who have actually conducted some research.
"Further investigations focused on emission control through regenerative braking and brake coating. Driving with regenerative braking reduced emissions by up to 89.9%, which related to the concentration of particles in the ultrafine/fine size range. Hard-metal brake coating led to a further significant reduction in emissions of up to 78.9%"
https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4433/14/3/488

Wow emissions measurement with accuracy to 3 sig figs - their equipment must be something special. Must be confident to quote those in a published scientific paper.

Or could their statements simply be naïve?

[Diderot]

Undercover McNoName said:

vikingaero said:

Mrs V. drives around 0.8 miles to work/school but she's normally loaded up with 30+ exercise books for each subject that she's taught the previous day, and all the work prepared for that day, along with assorted models and other teaching gumpf.

Electric cargo bike.

Very nice when it’s freezing, or raining, or blowing a gale, or all three at once, and if you enjoy getting bullied by white van man and risking life and limb. Also great for breathing in all those particulates with no protection that EVs will help to reduce at the local level. Moreover I think the last tricycle I had was when I was 3.

[Undercover McNoName]

Diderot said:

Moreover I think the last tricycle I had was when I was 3.

I guess you brits are too powerfully built company directors to be seen on one, compared to everyone else in EUrope. Brexit says a lot about the majority of you ;-)