EV charger installation problem
Discussion
We're trying to get an EV charging point installed in advance of our car being delivered. The company we are using said they need to apply to the electricity network company (SSEN) to have the master fuse uprated. SSEN have replied saying they can't simply do this because our electricity supply service is "looped" and that they will have to perform an "Unlooping Diversion" job beforehand. According to the diagram they sent, the feed for the building (we live in a semi-detached house) comes into our property and then loops on to the adjoining neighbours'.
From the wording in the email it seems that we're expected to pick up the cost for this - has anyone had anything similar and able to suggest what the cost might be?
From the wording in the email it seems that we're expected to pick up the cost for this - has anyone had anything similar and able to suggest what the cost might be?
I am on a looped supply. The costs should be covered by the DNO but it seems to vary. I’m with western power and they cover the cost, would be thousands to do mine and was going to be free.
What is your main fuse rating and what is the load calculation that was used for the maximum load that means you need a fuse upgrade?
We can’t be de-looped as our neighbour won’t agree to the works required, our DNO have just accepted the install of a load limited charger (ohme pro).
What is your main fuse rating and what is the load calculation that was used for the maximum load that means you need a fuse upgrade?
We can’t be de-looped as our neighbour won’t agree to the works required, our DNO have just accepted the install of a load limited charger (ohme pro).
By DNO do you mean SSEN, or whatever company owns and runs the power network? If so then yes I'd have expected that it should fall to them to pick up the cost - the network is their property after all, not ours.
The fuse we have now is 60A I gather and the installer said we'd need at least 80A.
The fuse we have now is 60A I gather and the installer said we'd need at least 80A.
Interesting point.
A 7kw charger will draw about 30 amps.
This is useful if you need to charge in short space of time.
Granny chargers are 8 amp, so take about four times as long.
16 amp chargers can be a useful compromise.
To somewhat answer the original question, what other significant electrical loadings do you have?
These could be cooktop, oven and hot water element. Any electrical heating at all?
For a lot of houses a 7kw charger will be fine with a 60 amp fuse.
somouk said:
We can’t be de-looped as our neighbour won’t agree to the works required, our DNO have just accepted the install of a load limited charger (ohme pro).
That's a bit of a pain!I assume it wouldn't cost them anything if the DNO are covering the job, they'd stand to benefit from their own increased supply, but just won't accept the hassle?
Thanks all. We contacted the installer to see what they advise, no response yet but will chase on Monday. I was present when he did the site survey at home, he took one look at the master fuse, saw it was 60A and immediately said that would need uprating. There was no discussion about other devices consuming power etc. and no calculations were mentioned.
We have electric underfloor heating in both bathrooms but this is not the primary heat source in either room and neither floor area are very big. Other than that we have an inflatable hot tub (normal 13A plug), induction hob, beyond that just the usual kettle, toaster, wife's hair dryer etc. No idea what that all totals up to, I guess we should be able to work it out, at least ballpark.
I don't understand why we have to unloop the supply just to change the master fuse for a higher-load one either - unless that fuse protects not just our property but the neighbours' too? I begrudge paying for this as well, the two properties are separate so this feels like being made to pay to fix a corner that was cut (through no fault of ours) when they were wired to the mains in the first place.
We have electric underfloor heating in both bathrooms but this is not the primary heat source in either room and neither floor area are very big. Other than that we have an inflatable hot tub (normal 13A plug), induction hob, beyond that just the usual kettle, toaster, wife's hair dryer etc. No idea what that all totals up to, I guess we should be able to work it out, at least ballpark.
I don't understand why we have to unloop the supply just to change the master fuse for a higher-load one either - unless that fuse protects not just our property but the neighbours' too? I begrudge paying for this as well, the two properties are separate so this feels like being made to pay to fix a corner that was cut (through no fault of ours) when they were wired to the mains in the first place.
8bit said:
Thanks all. We contacted the installer to see what they advise, no response yet but will chase on Monday. I was present when he did the site survey at home, he took one look at the master fuse, saw it was 60A and immediately said that would need uprating. There was no discussion about other devices consuming power etc. and no calculations were mentioned.
We have electric underfloor heating in both bathrooms but this is not the primary heat source in either room and neither floor area are very big. Other than that we have an inflatable hot tub (normal 13A plug), induction hob, beyond that just the usual kettle, toaster, wife's hair dryer etc. No idea what that all totals up to, I guess we should be able to work it out, at least ballpark.
I don't understand why we have to unloop the supply just to change the master fuse for a higher-load one either - unless that fuse protects not just our property but the neighbours' too? I begrudge paying for this as well, the two properties are separate so this feels like being made to pay to fix a corner that was cut (through no fault of ours) when they were wired to the mains in the first place.
Basically because the incoming connection is carrying the load for two properties. If both properties had 100A fuses, then the wiring is carrying 200A (potentially) and it wasn't designed to do that. Some (most?) chargers are actually cleverer in that you can put a CT clamp round the incoming mains and if the charging current would overload the fuse, it will downrate if it needs to. Given that you will probably be charging overnight, drawing 32A is probably not going to be a real problem, even if you were on a 60A fuse.We have electric underfloor heating in both bathrooms but this is not the primary heat source in either room and neither floor area are very big. Other than that we have an inflatable hot tub (normal 13A plug), induction hob, beyond that just the usual kettle, toaster, wife's hair dryer etc. No idea what that all totals up to, I guess we should be able to work it out, at least ballpark.
I don't understand why we have to unloop the supply just to change the master fuse for a higher-load one either - unless that fuse protects not just our property but the neighbours' too? I begrudge paying for this as well, the two properties are separate so this feels like being made to pay to fix a corner that was cut (through no fault of ours) when they were wired to the mains in the first place.
theboss said:
That's a bit of a pain!
I assume it wouldn't cost them anything if the DNO are covering the job, they'd stand to benefit from their own increased supply, but just won't accept the hassle?
Yeah, the works would include both pavements, the road, both drives being dug up, new meter boxes on the outside of the houses and then backwired to the existing meter position by taking up the living room and hallway carpets and floors. They've just had new living room and hallway floors.I assume it wouldn't cost them anything if the DNO are covering the job, they'd stand to benefit from their own increased supply, but just won't accept the hassle?
I don't understand why they don't just uprate the cable coming in to mine and my fuse, the neighbours consumption isn't changing and they loop off me.
My house had a new supply due to next door renovating and wanting to move the supply to a new location (the original supply was fed through the party wall from my side).
The work was completed at the cost of the DNO for my element with next door paying c. £700 for their element.
The DNO insisted I needed my supplier to attend on the day also due to the smart meter but all they did when they attended was look at it, make a phone call and confirm it was ok. That part cost me.
The work was completed at the cost of the DNO for my element with next door paying c. £700 for their element.
The DNO insisted I needed my supplier to attend on the day also due to the smart meter but all they did when they attended was look at it, make a phone call and confirm it was ok. That part cost me.
Rough101 said:
The DNO can and do charge for this, it’s their network, but it’s you that wants a bigger supply.
Looping is a bit different some they charge for, some they don’t.
If they are going to charge (worth checking and confirming that bit) then I would suggest holding off. There are a lot of people in this position and it's entirely possible that some form of subsidy could be announced down the line to support the continued uptake of EV's.Looping is a bit different some they charge for, some they don’t.
As Rough101 says it's you that wants the bigger supply, but it's the government that wants (in fact is long term forcing) you to adopt EV.
For a here and now solution, a simple outdoor socket could allow you to use the 16a granny charger which is actually enough for the average user. Or, a little frowned upon by purist sparks.. you could get a 32a commando socket fitted and then plug one of these into it: https://evonestop.co.uk/products/ev-charging-cable...
You'd have to bare in mind how much power the entire house is drawing through that 60a fuse - very unlikely to be an issue so long as you have gas heating and only charge overnight.
We had our supply moved and as part of this we asked for an upgrade to 100A as we will have 2 annexes, one being used as an AirBNB along with ASHP, a EV charger and the kitchen is all electric.
They charged us for the relocation only. Weirdly when they dug everything up to re-terminate it was discovered we had three phase ready to if we ever need it.
They charged us for the relocation only. Weirdly when they dug everything up to re-terminate it was discovered we had three phase ready to if we ever need it.
I suppose another thing to think about is the longer term importance of getting it sorted. It will only be a matter of time before the typical home buyer will be asking their surveyor to check a house that doesn't already have a charger can have fitted with minimal cost/hassle perhaps surveyors are already doing this? If they discover it's going to cost £3k or whatever, that becomes a bargaining chip they'll use to reduce their already accepted offer once they get the survey results back.
So no immediate rush, as I said in my post above, but there probably is good value to be had longer term by sorting it out - it might cost you the same but for the years until you do sell the house, you would benefit from it yourself, as well potentially making the house slightly easier to sell when the time comes.
So no immediate rush, as I said in my post above, but there probably is good value to be had longer term by sorting it out - it might cost you the same but for the years until you do sell the house, you would benefit from it yourself, as well potentially making the house slightly easier to sell when the time comes.
somouk said:
theboss said:
That's a bit of a pain!
I assume it wouldn't cost them anything if the DNO are covering the job, they'd stand to benefit from their own increased supply, but just won't accept the hassle?
Yeah, the works would include both pavements, the road, both drives being dug up, new meter boxes on the outside of the houses and then backwired to the existing meter position by taking up the living room and hallway carpets and floors. They've just had new living room and hallway floors.I assume it wouldn't cost them anything if the DNO are covering the job, they'd stand to benefit from their own increased supply, but just won't accept the hassle?
I don't understand why they don't just uprate the cable coming in to mine and my fuse, the neighbours consumption isn't changing and they loop off me.
I agree the simplest approach to solving the problem without imposing on the neighbour would be to simply uprate your supply, there must be something in their code of regs that says they can't/won't do so.
Our entire estate is currently getting upgraded to three phase. Currently my house supplies three other houses. The other half of the semi and the next door semi. We are at the end of the street.
Work has started. Progress looks slow but we aren't paying.
I gather that while three phase cables are being put in only single phase connection being done. Three phase being future proofing. But at least every house will have it's own connection to the main street cable.
Work has started. Progress looks slow but we aren't paying.
I gather that while three phase cables are being put in only single phase connection being done. Three phase being future proofing. But at least every house will have it's own connection to the main street cable.
Edited by irc on Saturday 12th August 10:35
Edited by irc on Saturday 12th August 10:36
That’s what happened when Western Power I looped my house due to the fitting of an EVSE.
I got the infrastructure and cutout for a three phase supply, but only one phase is connected to avoid making changes to my meter and consumer unit. I could have it upgraded to three phase in the future if I wanted.
FWIW, Western Power (now National Grid) did all the work for free under a grant scheme all DNOs have access to for this type of net zero future proofing work.
I got the infrastructure and cutout for a three phase supply, but only one phase is connected to avoid making changes to my meter and consumer unit. I could have it upgraded to three phase in the future if I wanted.
FWIW, Western Power (now National Grid) did all the work for free under a grant scheme all DNOs have access to for this type of net zero future proofing work.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff